Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

What to expect from the next model year Prius



  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    The purpose of this discussion is supposed to be talking about waiting for the 2009 Prius, not the safety merits of hybrids.

    I'm going to remove the recent off topic stuff in an attempt to get us back on track.


    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • fordenvyfordenvy Posts: 72
    You really put a stop to this forum, that was good stuff I was reading.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    If you'd like to discuss safety issues,trythe Prius Safety & Crash Test Ratings discussion.


    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    This is a NICE looking car....

    Spy 2009 Prius

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    Better styling than the last one. Still too many blind spots for me to consider one.
  • morey000morey000 Posts: 320
    Hope they don't replace those nice mag wheels,
    with the hubcaps that are on the current model.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Believe it or not, but the current Prius has alloy wheels standard, but there are plastic outer rims to protect the wheels from curb rash.
  • Friends:

    This does not seem to make sense. New cars are going for $21-25k, while used ones from 2004 with comparable options are being listed in autotraders within $17-22k range.

    This makes the 3-yr residual for cars bought in 2004 at over 80%. That seems believable for a Toyota (or a Honda for that matter). But why is the residual value on new Prius's as low as 52-54% (as reported by other posters)?

    Does it mean that the resale values of today's cars, after three years (2010-2011), would be substantially lower, when the new generation of hyrids (80-100 mpg) hits the market?

    If this is true, then, for those who can afford to defer their decision by a year or so, does it make sense to wait?

    Please advise. My lease ends in a month ... I love the car, despite its heavy fuel consumption, which forces me to actively consider a hybrid ... but I'm concerned about how much value I might lose in 3-4 years. Is there anyone with access to a crystal ball???

    Thanks in advance,
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Don't confuse residual value with retail resale value or trade-in value for that matter.

    The fact is that residual values on leased vehicled always will show about a 50% loss after 3 or 4 yrs no matter what vehicle you are discussing. The auto finance company is protecting itself because it is required to 'buy back' your vehicle at the guaranteed residual value.

    Trade in value is usually lower still because the trading company has to consider that it has to add costs to bring the traded vehicle back to market and it has to pay a commission to the sales person and it has to make a profit on the resale.

    Retail resale value depends on a huge array of factors which might distort the figures dramatically. If your local community has a relative 'shortage' of used hybrids then the ones trying to sell theirs in the paper and online will certainly be looking to get top dollar. You also have to make sure you are comparing apples to apples in equipment. There is a significant different in price between a base Prius and a loaded '04 model. It might be $4000-$6000.

    Finally supply is the key factor in resale pricing. Toyota just jumped the supply of Prius' by nearly 60% this year as opposed to 2004 when they had a true shortage situation.
    ~ 70000 sold in 2004
    ~150000 will be sold this year.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Article in the NYTimes seems to indicate the next Prius will be rear engine RWD....
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I can only imagine that it will be one of the 'Prius' models that were discussed last year. At that time there was talk about an A, B and C model coming as Toyota might go with a whole 'Prius' mini-lineup like the Scions.
  • bennbbennb Posts: 143
    From what I've heard the '09 will be a mild re-fresh (different headlight style and the like) ... the major change will be in 2010. Also heard '09 may have lithium ion batteries that will get better fuel economy, but that may wait till 2010 as well.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    That's correct about the '09 -- just a refresh. I believe the next generation car has been delayed to calendar year 2010, so when it appears, it will be a 2011 model. The lithium-ion batteries won't show up until the new generation debuts.
  • stevegoldstevegold Posts: 185
    What about the turbo and the auto parallel parking feature?
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    No turbo for this generation; I don't know about the parallel parking feature.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    I don't believe that an Atkinson Cycle engine would have enough energy/heat left in the exhaust output to drive a turbo. Barely enough to keep the catalyst at optimum temperature as it is.

    On the other hand a small lightweight (carbon fiber??)variable speed positive displacement SuperCharger (w/intercooler) driven by an AC motor, itself driven by yet another variable frequency AC solid state inverter, might be an ideal solution.

    Or maybe an SC primarily belt driven by the engine but via another e-CVT controlled by a light duty/hp (5-7HP??) AC motor on the opposite end of the planetary reduction gearset. 4:1 reduction would yeild 25-28 HP to the SC and allow continously variable BOOST through the Full RPM/load range of the ICE.

    Minimal or no BOOST at all just cruising along and no high RPM OVER-boost to provide a WASTE bypass for.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,719
    "I don't believe that an Atkinson Cycle engine would have enough energy/heat left in the exhaust output to drive a turbo. "

    Turbos are driven by exhaust pressure, not temperature.

    Keep in mind that a supercharger is mechanically driven and requires energy to run - it boosts power at the cost of economy. To make the net use of SC workable, the engine would have to be smaller or use less fuel.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "Turbos are driven by exhaust pressure, not temperature."

    And just what do you think causes all that exhaust (gas) pressure, if not the HEAT of combustion? The Atkinson Cycle allows more EXPANSION, less pressure into the exhaust manifold, of the ignited A/F mixture during the power stroke relative to normal "Otto" engines.

    "It boosts power at the cost of economy."

    SURE DOES...!!

    And that's exactly the point...!!

    Anytime, ANYTIME, you put that "pedal to the metal" you are asking for POWER in leu of FE.

    The idea of an SC or TC is to make a small engine act like a BIGGER one when the driver calls for POWER.

    The Atkinson Cycle makes efficient use of the WASTE energy that might otherwise be used to drive a Turbocharger.

    An SC configuration as I have suggested would not be a parasitic load on the ICE unless an extraordinary level of POWER was asked for.
  • stevegoldstevegold Posts: 185
    I almost bought and installed a high power electric (DC)
    turbo which would have fit right in the air intake tube on my 2004. It would have given a good pressure boost but was designed for only 30 second operating cycles. The seller (ETurbo) said it would burn up if used for more than a minute at a time. I only needed it on long, straight, steep interstate mountain passes like just west of Denver. Those take 5-10 minutes to climb. Everything else works fine (short, curvy, not too steep).
Sign In or Register to comment.