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Frontier vs Ranger - II

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Comments

  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Yeah, I remember the GMC Typhoon and Syclone. Weren't those trucks outrageously expensive when new? I sure wanted one, but being in high school and working part-time sure didn't get me anywhere near close.

    I think that GM really limited their production too. Much as Ford does with its SVT vehicles.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I agree with you on the size. A full-sized truck with an extended cab is just too big for my needs. I just need something that can comfortably haul 2 people, have 4wd for the snow, and tow 2000-3000lbs to Wisconsin a few times a year. I'd love a V8, but getting it in a full-sized truck seems like overkill.
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Member Posts: 290
    CThompson, you couild always go for a V8 Tundra
    (since most people actually consider a Tundra to be more of a mid-size truck than a genuine full size). BTW- I really don't know jack about the Tundra. How is it rated? I know the old T-100 was a disaster for Toyota. I've heard mixed reviews on the Tundra though. A few magazines gave it Truck Of The Year and a few others dogged it.
  • xena1axena1a Member Posts: 286
    I browse the various Tundra forums quite a bit because of the entertainment value. Discussions can become extremely heated. Two basic schools of thought seem to prevail. Tundra owners love their trucks. Quiet, well-built, smooth, powerful. The Big3 guys claim that it is not really a full-size truck but you pay full-size prices. Another gripe of the Big3 truckers is that Toyota is limited in option packages. Can't get 3/4 ton, no additional V8 choice, no LSD. There is alot of statistical bantering concerning hauling and towing capacities, interior and exterior dimensions, sales numbers, work truck vs yuppie truck, etc. Eventually, the argument always seems to come back around to U.S. vs Japan and what's best for the country. Personally, I think the Tundra seems to be a decent product, abeit, a bit overpriced. It's the new kid on the block that has stirred up quite a hornet's nest. It's all very interesting...
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Member Posts: 290
    I certainly agree on the overpriced part. Toyota seems to always lure buyers attention with a low (or fair) base price, but it skyrockets once you start to add options. That's why I pretty much wrote off a Tacoma when I was truck shopping. All the options on my truck in a Tacoma were around 5 to 6 grand more. The only thing "better" was that Tacomas have a little more ground clearance. But that wasn't enough to sway me into buying it.

    But some folks are willing to pay a little more for "Toyota reliability" I guess.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    thanks guys on the s/c input, I didn't know i've done alot of offroading but never with anyone w/a s/c. I had concerns because of the elements but I agree with you guys if a manufcture is going to put one on I'm sure they will test all that.

    Ct21,
    I wanted one of those too, but back then I had my '81 toyo 4x4 and was living in Tallahasse and into the whole hunting scene...it would have been hard to take one of those offroad :-).

    I agree with you guys on the tundra. I wasn't that impressed with it's size for the money. To me it's smaller than the F-150 by a long shot inside. I compared the two because it seems to me that the Silverado is the biggest of the full size then dodge. You guys are right for the money though you could get a 'full size' pickup with a bigger engine than what toyo offers. I didn't even look at toyo, simply because of what you get for your money...and plus they didn't 4 real doors!
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    The Tundra is in the same boat as the Dakota. Way too much money for a V8 4x4 with common options. For a vehicle upwards of $30, I can think of better places to spend my money.

    It's not like I need more cab space than my Ranger or another compact.

    I don't need a V8 either. I just want one!
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    Do not forget about Dodge.In their full size 02 truck line comes a 5.7L Hemi.Also their concept Power wagon with the I6 diesel with 780ft.lbs of torque is quite impressive.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Don't forget that Dodge is never gonna put these trucks into production. Too bad...

    I think the Lightning is safe for now.
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    The Power Wagon you may be right about.The 5.7L Hemi will be in the 02 year truck.
    Here is the article.

    The 2002 Dodge Ram Pickup

    The 2002 Dodge Ram is expected to be an evolutionary refinement of the current Ram, not the revolutionary design that distinguished today's truck from the previous generation.

    Combining styling cues from the present day Ram with some features first seen in the Dodge MAXXcab concept, sources at DaimlerChrysler inform us that we are very accurate with this depiction of the next Dodge Ram pickup. The strong Ram cross-hair grille remains, as ever, the most prominent feature but will become slightly more angular. The headlights will increase in size and prominence and the fenders continue to blend back into the cab providing the 'big rig' look that the Ram has become well known for. The truck is also expected to grow in length and width.

    Several new engines will be offered in the '02 Ram including: the 'Next-Generation Magnum 4.7 liter V8'; the return of the Hemi lineup starting with a 5.7 liter V8 - first featured in the Chrysler 300 Hemi C concept car where it produced 353hp and 353ft-lb of torque in a 353 cubic inch package; and a rumored new V10.

    There are also some rumors that the next-gen Dodge Ram Heavy Duty truck, when it debuts, will be very similar in appearance to the Dodge Power Wagon Concept to distinguish it from the lighter duty truck shown above. The next Heavy Duty Dodge Ram may also use the Allison transmission, used in the 2001 GM Heavy Duty trucks, when combined with a diesel engine.
    Now that is potential power and a whole bunch of aftermarket hp parts.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    cncman,
    I saw the mag you're talking about, looks like everybody will have a 4-door of some kind. The Chevy avalanche is hidious..who in their right mind would buy that ugly concept?
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I meant the 750hp Dodge Dakota Quad Cab and the PowerWagon. The 5.7L Hemi will probably be detuned from what was seen in the concept cars. Probably not a huge amount, tho.
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Member Posts: 290
    Yeah, but no matter how you slice it - it's still a Dodge. ;-)
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Yeah I saw the mag at a 7-11 but it was the last one...it was all ragged out so I didn't buy it. I remember the posts that others had put up and they had the Avalanche on it but the mag has better pics on all of the new trucks. It looked like a pretty good mag. I understand why you might like different designs and respect that, hell you have too to make it in design, but it looks so 'plastic-like' it reminds me of the Navigator. See to me the expedition looks so much better. But anyways, I think you might be right about the new frontier and it's fender flares...I'm just a little jelous that I bought mine in march and they are completely redigning it. This means my looks and conversations with strangers will deminish :( Well I guess the attention was going to disappear sometime. The only thing I wish my C.C. had was a rear seat the folded down-like all the others. maybe they changed that.
  • sushisushi Member Posts: 99
    Thanks for the page. I read up on it... I don't know how much money it would cost me to install one though.. Anyone have any ideas?
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Member Posts: 290
    Sushi, what type of vehicle do you have? Sorry if you stated it earlier, Ijust don't recall. Anyway, if you have a Ranger then CT21 might be able to help you out. If you have a Frontier you're out of luck. I don't believe one currently exists, but I have read where several companies have built them and are testing them this year.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    For a Ranger, you'd be looking around $2000 for a Paxton plus installation. It's around $3000 for the more desireable BBK Instacharger, but you'd be able to install it yourself. Check out the rangerpowersports.com for a really good mods FAQ on superchargers.

    If you own a Frontier, I haven't heard of anything out yet.
  • danny25danny25 Member Posts: 119
    Where is the article you were talking about with the new Dodge truck info. The internet or a magazine? It sounded interesting, Thanks.
  • 2drive2drive Member Posts: 90
    Yes!! That's the BEST part!! :)
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    Here is where I saw the article that I posted eartlier.

    www.pickuptruck.com
  • danny25danny25 Member Posts: 119
    I'm sure you've all seen this but I don't remember any one posting it so I will. This site has some interesting info on the new Frontier and some good pictures, one I hadn't seen yet of a yellow Desert Runner XE. There's also a picture of the new supercharged engine.

    http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/chicago/nissan/frontier.html
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    do any of you know what the site is that has aftermarket items for the Frontier, somebody posted it but I can't remember the address.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    thanks for the link Danny,
    I like the looks of the desert runner with the black fender flares better, but I wish it had body colored front bumper instead of the black, I think it would look better, but I would have to see it from the front directly to be sure, at freshalloy.com they had a picture of a silver desert runner with the black fender flares and it looked even better than the yellow, I am going to see if they still have it somewhere,
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Well because of the way the site is set up, I can't link directly to where the silver desert runner is, so here is the main site, http://freshalloy.com/ and just go to cars, and then 2001 frontier and the second page has a very attractive 3/4 view of a silver desert runner.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    does anyone know what happened to blueovalnews.com? the site is closed and they said they will be back on may12!?
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    It's just a single guy that administers the whole site. Maybe he's just upgrading and is off-line for a while. I also know that he has many legal battles with Ford. Maybe this also has something to do with it. Is that May 12 of '00 or '01?
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    I would assume 00 because he said it would be down for 2 days, but obviously it has been longer than that, boy, I guess this is another example of what big business does to the little guy. Really sucks that you have to be able to buy justice.
  • steveeaststeveeast Member Posts: 158
    I'm confused. I just went to http://blueovalnews.com/ and it looks fine to me.
    Current dates, nothing unusual at all.
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Member Posts: 290
    I just got in with no problem. Are you having trouble accessing it? It says it's current as of today (june 8th).

    Why in the world that guy would want to take on Ford in court is beyond me. If he wins, so what.
    And if he loses, so what. I mean, in the big scheme of things nobody is probably going to give a hoot either way. But I'd sure hate to be on the losing end of that battle.

    I think Ford probably has a legit complaint (to me anyway) in trying to prevent internal documents from hitting the web. I mean, what's next? Pretty soon someone will be scamming medical records from hospitals and putting them on the web in the name of "free speech". Or posting all of your internet purchases from Amazon.com on the web for the world to see. Some things should still be kept private, especially in Ford's case where the info deals directly with the success or failure of their business.

    Did that make any sense?
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    It is up now, I went there earlier today and it said that the site will be closed for two days and back up on may 12, Looks good now.

    cyg;
    I think there is a difference between posting an individual's medical records and documents a manufacturer may not want public that demonstrates they know there is a safety/quality problem with their product. I am the biggest fan of personal privacy, but this does not go as far as big corporations covering up potentially damaging information.
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Member Posts: 290
    There's definitely a valid argument on both sides. The potentially damaging information I can see being posted because the same thing could have been uncovered through the newspaper or 20/20 or something. But posting some of that info that used to be up on the site, like designs for future engines, and other memos relating to day to day operations I think crosses the line. Some of what was up there was definitely Ford property and dealt more with business than anything else. But the site seems a lot tamer now that this lawsuit is going on. I dunno, it's definitely something that makes your head spin if you thinbk too much about it. I guess that's where the lawyers come in.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    with cygnusx. I'm not sure if it's the product liability or what not Ford's pissed about, all that stuff could be made discoverable in a court case of any kind. It's the new technology or plans for future vehicles that gives competition un-fair insight that is not right. Ford or any manufacturer has a right to keep future product designs confidential.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Don't forget about confiditiality. a corporation has the right to have 'trade secrets' in the intrest of protecting it's designs for being copied. If they can prove that they came out with a particular design(successful or not) they could get restitution for someone else's success with the same design. Even if there is no patent or copyright for the design. The design is the property of the designer. I know you were talking about him just posting it on the web, but Ford could blame him if someone else uses the design. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now!
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    that should read'...of protecting it's designs from being copied.'
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I think he could have censored some of his information a bit and kept it a little vague. He'd keep Ford off his back and given Ford fans some juicy tidbits to ponder over.

    Besides, it seems as if a lot of his information that I've seen over the past couple of years have been incorrect to some degree. I tend to read the material there with an extremely skeptical inclination.



    I'd tend to be on Ford's side here. They have a right not to have their trade secrets posted on the Internet. Free speech or not, it's just plain theft.

    As much as I'd LOVE to know in advance about the exciting new developments of any auto manufacturer, I respect their rights to do business without an insider shooting them in the foot.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Where'd everybody go? Well, I guess the weather is too nice to stay inside. I think it's time to cruise to the ice cream shop! :oD
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Well actually the weather wa kinda lousy by me, I am in the Texas gulf coast, we have that depression there, so alot of rain, but it is cooler! Oh, I don't know if I told you guys before or not, but I am restoring a 77 280z and I got a new catalog that had some body kits in it and there was a design that would make it look like the 280zxr, I had never heard of it before, but it was one of those limited production runs Nissan had to produce 1,000 of to qualify for racing, it had the fender flares that had the bolt holes in it like the 01 frontier! I think this may be where they got the design from, well, just an interesting tidbit, I am off to put new injector hoses on my Z car,
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Testing, testing 1 2 3!
    Well I found out something else interesting, remember the wreck I told you guys about? Well I found out, I sold that frontier! The customer got ahold of me and said the traffic was stopped on the highway, A semi came over the hill behind him about 65mph, hit him, pushed him into the car in front of him, and pushed both of them about 75 feet! He said he was still a little sore, but no major injuries, and they did not have to operate or anything, said he was very impressed with the way it performed. Well if anyone is still here have a great weekend and a happy father's day, I am going to the driving range today to see if I can shake this case of the shanks!
  • danny25danny25 Member Posts: 119
    I also have a Ranger supercab 4 cyl. You're right, the truck is very slow; it only has 120 hp. This fall Ford is putting in a smaller 2.3L with more power. I also got crappy gas milage for a 4 banger, at first. After your engine has some time to break in you should get better milage. I have 9000 miles on mine and do almost 100% city driving and I drive it pretty hard too, and get about 20-21 mpg.
  • xena1axena1a Member Posts: 286
    I'm sorry that you are disappointed with you new Ranger. But man, you should have done more research! Be an informed consumer! There is a wealth of product information out there, use it. How could you have bypassed the basic test drive before you purchased the truck? It is common knowledge that Nissan and Toyota make very fine 4cyl truck engines that out perform the Ford 2.5L. Some investigative work would have informed you of this as well as the fact the Ford is coming out with a new 4cyl for the 2001 Ranger that should be an improvement over the current engine. I don't mean to sound like a scolding parent, but you bear much of the responsibility for your disappointment. Oh, and BTW, some of us are very happy with our Ranger or B-Series trucks. I know that I am...
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    For an extra $400, you could have gotten the 3L V6. It has pleanty of power especially with the manual tranny. It also gets good gas milage, about 18 city and 24 highway.

    You'd also realize more than $400 when you sell/trade your truck. Rangers with 4 cylinders and manual trannies are definately not a hot seller.

    The 2.5L is pretty much an engine kept in the lineup for CAFE emission reasons.

    Not trying to be harsh or anything, but make sure you test drive something before you buy it next time.

    BTW, your mpg will increase. The engine should be broken in around 10-15K miles. Your highway mpg should probably be in the high twenties, and your city mpg should be in the low twenties.

    If you've got about $500, you can bump up the truck's output by about 25hp and 30ft/lbs. Get yourself a KKM Tru-Rev kit ($90), a Gibson cat-back exhaust ($200), and a Superchip ($200). Then, it should at least be able to get out of its own way. Performance should be about on par with a stock 3L V6 Ranger.
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    I agree that the 6cyl would have been better,and that the resale of the vehicle is higher,but the fact is that the hot seller is the 4cyl Ranger.More people buy that then the 6cyl.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    That's probably true in overall sales. But, you need to take fleet/rental sales into account. I'd bet that's where the majority of 4 cylinder Rangers are sold. So, I wouldn't exactly say the 2.5 is a "hot seller", it's just the price leader in a category (fleet sales) where price is the only concern.

    Anybody that would take 5 minutes in researching the Ranger and going out for a simple test drive would see that the 3L is a better value by far. If that someone still goes for the 4cyl Ranger, then they're obviously not after power. To go and [non-permissible content removed] about it being the dog that it is seems a bit ridiculous to me.

    Just curious. But, where did you get your numbers from?
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    I found it in an article on the internet about Ford sales.I did not keep the link,but in the article it covered the sales of Ford vehicles and how the basic Ranger with the 4cyl and Ford Credit helped make it the main seller for Ford.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Do you happen to remember if that was overall sales (which includes fleet, rental, governmental, etc... sales)?

    BTW, why would you consider it to be a bad thing for Ford to sell more 4cyl trucks than 6cyl trucks?

    The 2.5L has the best emissions rating for any compact truck 4cyl, and it uses less gas than 6cyl trucks (helping to keep these astronomical gas prices down).

    I had to go with a 6cyl truck because of my towing needs. Actually, at first I had asked for the 3L. But, there was a truck that met all of my criteria and added the 4L, 5-speed-auto, and dual media stereo. It was only $400 more because of some special 4L 4x4 discount that I wouldn't have gotten on the 3L truck. So, I said what the hell and bought the truck.

    BTW, the 4L makes for an infinitely better towing engine than the 3L. You can hardly tell a difference at all with a couple thousand pounds behind you. Plus, the gas milage doesn't drop. Neither of these can be said when towing with the 3L.
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    I am in total agreement with you on the 4.0L.The power of the 6cyl over the 4cyl makes a difference.Looking at what is currently happening over the fuel prices,people may have to rethink their priorities.I am referring to the ones that buy these vehicles as status symbols and have no real use for them.The people like you and I who use our trucks will need the extra cylinders over the better fuel economy of the 4 cyl.
    The 2.5L may have the best emission ratings,but I believe the imports seem to get a bit more power out of their 4 cylinders then the domestics.
    I am going to have to correct myself on my earlier post,it was the 3.0L and the basic Ranger.So,you are correct.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    The import 4-cylinders are light years better than the 2.5L. Ford's 4cyl seems more like an afterthought.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Ford sells the 2.5 strictly for CAFE reasons. If this person would have done more research they would have seen they could have bought a 3.0 with 152HP and 192ft/lbs of torque for just 3-400 dollars more... And this would have outperformed any 4cyl from Toyota or Nissan.. Along with the MPG figures only being 1-2mpg difference....
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I certainly know what you mean. Do you laugh too when you go to the gas station and see some social-ladder-climbing-yupster spending $50 just to fill up the tank of their jumbo 'ute? Just don't let them see you do it, though. I've gotten a couple of people mad at me.

    The mpg for my 4L doesn't seem too bad. I just got 18mpg on the last tank with probably 60/40 city/highway. It's not as good as my previous 3L always in the low 20s with mixed driving, but it will do.
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    vince,who cares what the 2.5L was built for? It was built and is on the market.Your comments are relevant...........?
    cthompson21,I too get looks at those with the big SUVs,but I just smile.Every now and then one will start complaining about the price and I will ask them what they have to complain about,they knew the mileage figures before they bought their vehicle.They usually shut up then.We might see alot of them for sale in the near future.
This discussion has been closed.