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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • jlindhjlindh Posts: 282
    My problem with the Charger and several of the other current Chrysler offerings is that I don't want to drive around in something that looks as if it were designed by the guy that draws the Dick Tracy comic strips. Does anyone else see the resemblance??
  • xtecxtec Posts: 354
    Thats because its suppose to have a retro look as well as the 300.They are a bigger hit then any car on this message board.Hands down,you buy what you want,and I'll buy what I want.That should be thev end of this,so compare to max or the AV or are you afraid to?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That should be thev end of this,so compare to max or the AV or are you afraid to?

    I don't think you get to make that decision, xtec. It can be the end of it for you, as you are not required to respond to all posts. Some of us will continue comparing whatever cars within this thread's boundaries (including Azera and Charger) that we want.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "THe Azera should be compared to the Charger R/T.It has the basic standard equipment and is the top of the line for Charger.You know you cant compete"

    We can go on and on about it. Frankly, Hyundai builds a fine, reliable car and I think that you being a "Mopar man" don't want to admit it. Yes, compared to the Charger the Azera may be a bit bland but is a better car overall. As for comparing the Maxima to a Charger.... another loss! Aside from some torque steer issues with the FWD I'll put it against the overweight Charger anyday.

    FWIW: I don't own a MAX or Azera.

    "Thats why there is so many cars on the Market.Everyone has differant taste"

    Best statement you have made! ;)

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Everyone has different taste, which is why we like comparing ALL of them. :) Why would you limit yourself to comparing the Azera to the Avalon and the Maxima when there are lots more competitors in the same price and size class vying for your dollar?
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I kind of like the current thread.. for a while it was all Avalon and Azera owners in here!

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I do too. I'm just looking for more Taurus owners to speak up!

    I'm afraid there just aren't many Taurus owners period.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I am starting to see them more and more here in South Jersey/Philly region. We have one here at the office just haven't been able to see who is driving it to ask how they like it.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    I would agree, I think the Avalon and Azera owners have pretty well stated their opinions. Many Azera owners, me included, think the Avalon is a great car, just priced $5-6000 more than a virtually equal Azera. And, it at least seems that most Avalon owners love their cars and but can see why we bought Azera's, as a value proposition, but also a car that has a lot going for it.

    Personally, the third car I would put in the equation is the Taurus. In Colorado, I think the AWD would be nice to have, although I understand that most would not need it or want it due to the added weight. I would also give it the benefit of the doubt on reliability until proven wrong. A lot of the kinks got worked out on the Five Hundred.

    Unfortunately, having owned a few Chrysler products, I probably feel about Chrysler the way many Americans feel about a Hyundai -- get one and you are looking for trouble. Probably not true, but as so many have said perception is reality oftentimes.
  • xtecxtec Posts: 354
    Because since the begining of this board,no matter what someone drove,The Azera owners would put down there car.I don't think its fair,and I gave my opinion.I'm not the one who that says something when someone mentions their car.I tried to stay off of here,but when Charger bashing started,I defended my car just like anyone else would.I could care less what anybody drives thats up to you.I'm not forcing anybody to buy a Charger,I buy what I like,i can't help it you don't approve.And I can't understand why people think that my Charger is overweight,because if it is so is the Azera seeing that they both weight about the same.MY Charger weight just below 3800 the same as your AZ.The R/T weighs just over 4100 because of the Hemi.You should check the specs before you mouth off.I don't see no need to continue this discussion, its getting boring to me,and I'm sure other people want to move on.Oh,by the way,I do like the New Taurus.Wouldn't buy it,because of my partiality,but wouldn't say not to someone who asked.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    And I can't understand why people think that my Charger is overweight,because if it is so is the Azera seeing that they both weight about the same.MY Charger weight just below 3800 the same as your AZ.The R/T weighs just over 4100 because of the Hemi.You should check the specs before you mouth off.

    Back the Charger truck up... I haven't mouthed off about weight so I'd appreciate you not responding to a post of mine and implying I have. The Azera weighs 3629lbs, not 3820lbs like the Charger. Maybe someone else should check their facts before becoming inflammatory and accusing people of making false statements?

    I don't see no need to continue this discussion, its getting boring to me,and I'm sure other people want to move on.

    I assume you mean you DO see no need to continue this discussion. That being said, that's fine with me. You don't have to continue participating in it. Ignore these posts and create a new topic all on your own. That suits me fine.

    ,I buy what I like,i can't help it you don't approve

    Still putting words in my mouth? I don't approve or disapprove of what anyone drives. I've found fault with your arguments which tend to have fallacies here and there, not necessarily your car. I only wish you could see that!
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I was the one talking about the weight... and yes I misspoke. I thought I remembered reading that the V6 was over 4000lbs.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "Personally, the third car I would put in the equation is the Taurus"

    I think the Taurus is a nice car too. I haven't driven one yet, but the 500 was great just underpowered (IMO). From what I have read, reliabilty has not been an issue with the 500/Taurus.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Thats because its suppose to have a retro look as well as the 300.

    Take two more doors then ;)
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Dude, it has been proven time and time again that the Charger is no better or no worse when it comes to trade in value. It's also been proven that the Charger is not a better performer than the Azera either, in any trim level below the R/T.

    I would put an Azera SE up against your Charger SXT and beat your pants off!

    You keep saying it's an HO 3.5 and yet, it's not putting out more than the 3.8 non-HO engine in the Azera. It's only an HO engine because Dodge decided to call it that. The only reason Ford calls one version of their engine HO is because it's the same engine as the non-HO version just tuned to kick out more HP and torque...that's it. Get over yourself and get over the fact that the Charger has been proven to be pretty close to equal in trade in value with the Azera. You also need to just accept the fact that the stock Azera will outperform the stock Charger. Face it, the Dodge 3.5 just isn't up to the task of taking on the foreign V-6's. Like you said yourself, you had to add an aftermarket exhaust to make your HO 3.5 equal to the non-HO 3.8 in the Azera (this came from your own fingertips).
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    The Azera can be compared to almost any trim level of the Charger. The Azera GLS can easily take on the base model Charger with the 2.7 V-6 and beat the pants off it. The Azera SE can be compared to the Charger SE and the Azera Limited w/Premium Package can be compared to the Charger SE w/SXT package. The only comparisons that can be made between the Azera Limited w/Ultimate Package and the Charger R/T is features and equipment. Other than that...you don't compare a car with a V-8 to a car with a V-6.

    You're right, the Azera is a family cruiser that can keep up with the performance based Charger...that's sad, truly sad...and yet, at the same time...HILARIOUS!!!

    I don't know where you've been, but the Azera has been compared to the Max and the Avalon already. Maybe you need to do yourself a favor and go back and read previous posts in the forum. You're certainly entitled to your points of view and preferences. However, I wouldn't get excited about the Max when compared to it's little brother the Altima when the Altima is beating it's pants off.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    "They are a bigger hit then any car on this message board."

    So says YOU, however...the Avalon outsells the Charger. Not sure how you look at things in this world, but volume of sales would indicate popularity in most circles.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "The only reason Ford calls one version of their engine HO is because it's the same engine as the non-HO version just tuned to kick out more HP and torque...that's it."

    Although I agree with your post Dodge does the exact same thing as Ford with the 3.5. There are two versions currently available, the Charger getting the "HO" version.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    What Azera owner on here has put down another model and make of car???

    It's one thing to defend your car with factual information and it's another to post personal opinion and sentiment. That is the ONLY reason you've taken the heat you've taken. Nobody has said the Charger isn't a good car, by all means...Dodge made a good move (in my opinion) with the Charger. However, as most would agree...Dodge could have done the Charger more justice by shoving more ponies into their V-6. The point of the matter is, the Charger is supposed to be a performance sedan and yet...there are family cruisers such as the Avalon & Azera that can run right along (if not past) the Charger. Sorry, it's a fact.

    Another point you just brought up...your Charger weighs the same as the Azera and you want everyone to believe that with 13 less hp, it's going to outrun an Azera??? That extra torque the Charger has will make up the difference when getting off the line, granted. However, once the cars get into 3rd gear...the Azera will start pulling away my friend.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Another point you just brought up...your Charger weighs the same as the Azera and you want everyone to believe that with 13 less hp, it's going to outrun an Azera??? That extra torque the Charger has will make up the difference when getting off the line, granted. However, once the cars get into 3rd gear...the Azera will start pulling away my friend.

    Actually, the Azera weighs 3629, while the Charger weighs 3820. The Azera will probably take a Charger off the line as well.

    Torque: 257 @ 4500 for the Azera = 14.1 lb-ft of torque per lb of car
    Torque: 250 @ 3800 for the Charger = 15.3 lb-ft of torque per lb of car

    In the Charger, there's more than an extra pound of car to move for every pound-foot of torque. The deficit is larger for horsepower, with the Azera holding an even larger advantage.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Well...based on the numbers you posted, the torque advantage goes to the Charger. Which is why I say it might jump off the line faster than the Azera, but it won't take much for the Azera to catch it once they are rolling. The Charger has advantages which would help it off the line...a tighter suspension tuned for athletic moves such as launching off the line, and depending on which model you get...it either has RWD or AWD. Coupled with the torque...I see it getting off the line faster, however...I could be wrong though.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Shoot, I have the numbers BACKWARDS in post 3665. :sick: :cry:

    It should be 15.3lbs of CAR per lb-ft of torque for the Charger, with 14.1 lbs of car per lb-ft of torque for the Azera.

    I can't go back and edit it now, but the Azera has MORE TORQUE and LESS WEIGHT then the Charger. All of the figures are right except my own misprint of lbs per lb-ft.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    That's exactly what you put.

    You mean the Azera should have 15.5 lbs/ft and the Charger should be 14.1 lbs/ft for torque, right?

    At any rate, the softer suspension would keep the Azera from really getting off the line like it could with a more athletic suspension. Not to mention the RWD is an advantage for the Charger too.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    No, the Azera has 14.1 pounds of car to pull with each lb-ft of torque, the Charger has over 15 pounds to push around per lb-ft of torque the engine makes.

    If the Azera had 14lb-ft of torque per pound of car it would have tens of thousands of lb-feet of torque! :)

    Ya see what I mean now?

    The Azera has less weight for its torque, while the Charger has more weight to pull around relative to its torque. The Azera has more toruqe and less weight.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I see what you're saying, but I still think there are other variables invloved too. Again, like the RWD or AWD (depending on the model) as well as the suspension. Only true way to find out is to put both on an actual line and see what happens! ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That's the truth. My point about my numbers was that I put them backwards! Gearing, tires, and launch methods will determine the drag-race winner (you know, since we all go out and drag race our family cars!).
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Well...to some high output means high output and there is just no possible way it can be beat by a V-6 that isn't a high output engine.
  • If the Charger is AWD, and I suspect it is due to the 5 speed transmission, any advantage in traction would be more than offset by the extra 200 or so pounds of the AWD option.
    I doubt, too, that the rear wheel drive version smokes its tires very far, if at all. Actually, a little tire slippage can be beneficial in getting the engine up into the powerband - and that 3.5 HO would need that aid due to lack of VVT, which gives the Azera a wider powerband.
    My Cobra has about equal HP per liter output ( about 70HP/liter ) and so is in about the same stage of tune for a 4 valve motor without VVT as the 3.5 HO in the Charger. My 4.6L V8 doesn't really come on boil until nearly 4000 RPM.
  • 2005 Nissan Maxima
    3432/252= 13.6
  • xtecxtec Posts: 354
    You are one of the people who put down other people cars as well as louiswei message 3575.If that isnt bashing I dont what is.The original Chargers came with six cyl.,with most having the 318.for louiswei to make that statement about a Charger being worthless with a V6,proves you people don't know to much about Mopars.If I wanted to buy a car to go 0 to 60,I wouldn't have bought my SXT,and bought a R/T.I didn't realize someone changed this board to be fastest cars 0 to 60.All I know when I drive My car its because I like it and don't care if anyone here likes it or not.I do know I have the car with the best balance,ride then the Azera could ever have,with their failed front suspension,I wouldn't buy the Azera if it was the last car made.Hyundai has a long way to go before it builds a car without so many problems,just read the Azera forums,and find out the Azera has a ways to go.Like I said you people bore me,and move on and discuss cars other then Charger and Azera.
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