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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I agree, longer warranty doesn't equal quality, however
    Just like GM now offering the longer warranties, the companies that do this do it because they HAVE TO! Not because the cars are more (or less) troublesome, but because that brand is 'living down' a reputation, the cars sell better, and/or the the car buyers expects the warranty. If Hyundai was still producing that trashy Excel (really the car that created the 'need' for the extended warranty in the first place), they still have the 100k powertrain warranty regardless of how much it might cost them to service it. No one would buy one otherwise.
    The day that Toyota/Honda/Nissan start having to lure buyers with a 100k warranty is likely also the day that they have started to lose their grip on the car business. Repair history statistics would indicate that it would cost them less to do so and all three have been making gobs of money so that they all could afford to do it. Well, why don't they do it then? No faith in their own products? Not likely! How about simply that they don't need to - their cars sell just fine - the 'Japanese brand' buyer is expecting a car that can run relatively trouble free for 200k and is willing to pay a little extra for it, the same buyer in a Hyundai showroom is probably worried about it and expects to pay less for it. Hyundai (and GM/others) only warranties its cars the way they do because they are FORCED TO and because the American autobuyer won't give them the time of day without it.
    I believe that Hyundai does not provide 100k warranties to its cars sold outside the US, it will be interesting to see if the Azera (and the company's other products) proves to have the same sort of long term quality/reliability as THN products and sells well, if that warranty doesn't disappear.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    don't understand what is "BS" about an exceptional warranty. I think most people are happy about a long warranty, regardless of the make of their car. Certainly people who buy Toyotas/Hondas/Nissans buy extended warranties
    it is only 'BS' in that it certainly has nothing to do with a car's quality. Extended warranty policies on anything continue to be premier money makers for those that offer them, a rather expensive security blanket for those that need it. My 2 year old Avalon has over 50k on it now and I continue to get calls wanting me to buy an extended warranty - hmmm, wonder why?
  • vic10vic10 Posts: 188
    Let's try this again without the cat jumping on the keyboard....

    The 300C maybe priced a bit high in this category but since Avalon has been mentioned, maybe not. And there's always pre-owned.

    I've owned mine since Sept 2004. Has 36K miles. Other than a temperamental rear window (motor/controller replaced) and a leaking transmission seal (replaced about 20k back), I've had no problems. It averages 20 mpg to and from work, and highway driving as high as 28 mpg as long as I keep it under 75 (where the MDS shuts down). It's roomy and quiet and I can sit for 5 hours straight driving without any discomfort.

    But the Love came to me the other day driving to work. There were three situations where I wanted to: Merge with traffic from a side street; get on a highway; get out of the way of a "here I come look out" semi. The car's response was instantaneous. Suspension: Solid, no wallowing, no lean, no hop. The steering: Quick, precise. Engine/transmission: Instant power; both the motor AND the transmission were there NOW, as though they were wired directly to my brain rather than through the pedal; no hesitation, yet no jerkiness--just turbine smooth power.

    Yes, it has it's faults. The suspension is a bit too firm, and the front end is sensitive (though different tires did a lot to address that). And the styling is something you either love or hate. But it's a heck of a car. And if you DON'T like driving like a little old lady (on a Sun day afternoon...with a floppy hat), you owe it to yourself to check one out.
  • scbobscbob Posts: 167
    I owned a Ford Taurus (Sable). Ford is infamous for the transmissions failing at 75,000 miles and above. That's why they do not have the warranty that Hyundai has. Also, it does not have the quality or safety of the Azera.
    Both a friend and I owned 2003 Camry's. The quality is no longer there and Toyota was quick to jump on "not covered by warranty."
  • gamlegedgamleged Posts: 442
    "Both a friend and I owned 2003 Camry's. The quality is no longer there and Toyota was quick to jump on 'not covered by warranty.'"

    That's disappointing! Having been a Honda owner since 1977 (two accords spanning 30 years between them), I'd always felt that Honda and Toyota were about neck-and-neck (with Honda being maybe a nostril ahead)! :shades:

    Only complaint I had with Honda (which sent me to try the Azera) was the lack of front-end styling... like half of a hard-boiled egg, compared to others' styling.

    The Azera's extended warranty helped put me in that driver's seat, and if I have no or very little need of the long warranty, I may very well remain in that make's seat, as the decades go by...
  • quietproquietpro Posts: 702
    Just a couple of opinions I'd like to share on discussions that have been ongoing...

    If the assumed high value manufacturers have such great reliability, they would have nothing to lose in offering a comparable warranty to Hyundai, GM, and the others. While they don't HAVE to match them to keep sales up, why not do it anyway? It just doesn't make good business sense. The fact is, they suffer from equipment failures just like everyone else and while their failure rates are slightly lower, they are percieved as being FAR lower. At this point in time, they are riding the wave of their reputation. More power to them but I wouldn't consider it a superior deal to get a lesser warranty.

    On the issue of who would expect more or less failures/errors, and thus complain, that could be argued either way. The blissful "high-quality" buyer that just assumes all things Toyonda are the best they can be may take all failures that come along as expected. They may just assume that those poor lost souls who aren't as enlightened as they are and bought some crappy domestic brand or lesser Japanese/Asian brand are suffering far worse than they when in actuality, they may be suffering higher failure rates. This would make them more likely to be complacent and less likely to complain.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "why not do it anyway? It just doesn't make good business sense"

    Huh? I think it makes perfect sense. Why pour money into something when you don't have to? You don't see 0% financing or 3K rebates on hot cars do you? These long warrantys are the same thing IMO. They are nothing but a selling tool. The fact is the insanely small percentage of major powertrain failures before 100K is very small and the manufacturers know it. The 100K warranty costs them very little and it gives them a reason to be different. Toyota and Honda won't extend their warranty until they can't sell all they can make. I don't see that happening anytime soon. While I agree that the gap is narrowing and GM is coming around (think Saturn Aura) it will still take a long time to win back the scores of buyers that flocked to Toyota and Honda.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Ummmmmmmmmmmm...you are aware that Hyundai's warranty came along well after the demise of the Excel, right? It wasn't just the Excel that wasn't such a great car for the, if you recall...the Scoupe.

    I'm on my 3rd Hyundai and guess what...I don't worry about it. The warranty is simply peace of mind for me.

    So I guess BMW HAS to offer their free maintenance program, huh?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Hyundai offers its warranty largely to dispel consumer quality concerns, a reputation they established largely because of things like the Excel. Of course, it came afterward - if they weren't suffering from this 'Korean Car' rap, chances are there would be no 100k warranty today.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    and yes BMW does in effect, HAVE to offer its 50k free maintainence - a function of some (largely electronic) problems theyt have had recently and a function of those white collar employees called BMW mechanics! I have a number of friends that will only keep their BMWs as long as they don't have to pay for the scheduled maintainence.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the funny part of GMs 'progress' though is that Saturn is largely becoming rebadged Opels out of Germany, and the new G8/Impalas etc. are out of Australia (Holden).
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Exactly...Hyundai is putting their money where their mouth is. In my mind, that's just what a company should do...stand behind their product. Granted, MOST powertrains can easily go 100K miles before any issues arise. Take for instance in my case...had I bought a Toyota, the warranty would have been done and over with in just over a year as I put 36K miles on it in about 14 months. Which would mean...any issues that arise after that 1st year would come right out of my pocket.

    Who's to say that Hyundai wouldn't be offering the warranty if they hadn't gone through what they went through in the beginning. In a way, it's a great selling point because the company is saying that you can buy Toyota or Honda (which are known for their reliability), or you can buy a Hyundai and we're (Hyundai) is so confident about their product that they are willing to stand behind it with the warranty they offer. Heck, even the bumper-to-bumper is 5 year 60K miles...most of the other guys offer only 3/36.

    The point is...with gas prices where they are now, folks don't have time to worry about repairs on a vehicle. It's tough enough paying the car note. So the warranty offers a little breathing room in that respsect.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "Saturn is largely becoming rebadged Opels out of Germany"

    GM is a master of taking something old changing the grill and calling it "new". Lucerne anyone? I haven't driven an Aura yet, but know someone who seriously considered it saying it was an extremely nice driving car. GM is coming around and has some aggresive marketing going on too. I hope the new Impala and G8 are something to talk about, because the competition with the imports will only bring us better cars all the way around.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    From my understanding the G8 will be one to consider in this forum.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    while there seems to be no doubt that Hyundai has improved their quality, you still seem to equate warranty with quality when actually the opposite is probably more likely. Do you really think that GM, to use another co., would be offering its similar warranty if it had the same sort of reliability reputation (and sales nos.) as THN has?
    I don't perceive the newest GM offerings to have quality issues either (at least, over the same 'paltry' 100k miles). GM is only 'standing behind' its products because they need to represent a quality that may or may not exist as well as to recover some of that market share they have lost. Hyundai is in the same boat IMO, only with generally better cars.
  • oskidunker1oskidunker1 Posts: 213
    Audi has done away with free maintenance. This is one of the reasons( along with the escalting new car costs) that is causing me to buy non Audi for the first time since 1987. They are arrogant bastards who think they can do whatever they want, take away everything, raise the prices and keep market share. We will see. I heard one month this years Audi sales were down 44%. risiduals are bad and people can get better deals on BMW's and Mercedes, if they still need the badge.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I guess that's how you're gonna look at it. It's one thing to just say, "Hey...our vehicles are better!", as opposed to a company offering a lengthy warranty to show that they are not worried about losing money because even with the lengthy warranty, they don't feel they'll have enough warranty claims to put them in a hole. If that were the case, they would scrap the lengthy warranty program they have for a shorter one.

    Whatever the case may be, the company is physically standing behind their product by offering that type of warranty. They are saying that SHOULD something happen with this vehicle...we'll take the load off your shoulders. Toyota, Honda and Nissan...they thank you for paying more for their product and in MOST cases any problems that do come up won't happen until after the 3/36 has run out and then it falls completely on the customer.

    Some folks lose their cars when a major repair happens because there's a large number of folks that live paycheck to paycheck and a major repair bill just doesn't get factored in to the budget. Well...with a lengthy warranty or free maintenance plan...all customers have to worry about is paying a car note.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    They are arrogant bastards who think they can do whatever they want,
    while this may be a tad strongly worded, I think there is a danger of this same sort of thing at your local Toyota and Honda dealers (and factories). Keep in mind also that those German mfgrs. are additionally handicapped by a strong Euro vs. a weak Dollar.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    a (maybe not so small point of correction - TMK, THN all come with 60k powertrain warranties (not 36) and 36k 'bumper-to-bumper', compared to the 60/100 by Hyundai/GM.
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