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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Well...for the Azera to drop from above average to just average at only 1 year old, I wouldn't get too uptight over that. Now if the next model year shows another drop to below average...I would worry. What I would love to see is the '08 come out and get above average ratings and then subsequent years after that...it maintain that rating for consistency.

    As far as the '06's doing so well, hey...sometimes, the stars line up just right and everything just seems to work in your favor. Sorta like Kobe going for 81 points, the Patriots making a run at a perfect season...things like this just happen. In this instance, Hyundai hit a home run on the first at bat with a new model. Only downside to this...expectations are raised for them and it's disappointing when they don't uphold those expectations.

    Like I said though...from above average to just average isn't worth selling the farm over, but if a downward trend develops with each model year...yeah, I can see Hyundai having some accountability issues to deal with.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Young??? What makes you think I'm old? LOL At 37, I hardly qualify for the median age of most Azera owners that grace this forum.

    Not saying your old, haha. But I am just about half your age - 20.

    If we were going by just image in here, I'd probably take the Maxima first. As it stands I don't have a need for cars this large, I'm just an enthusiast who likes to talk about all things "car." :)
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Not quite sure what you mean with your post. My comment isn't made against the Koreans, the comment is made in respect to those here in America that buy imports with the thought of having an edge over domestics, but...depending on the particular model you're buying...you're still buying a domestic. The only thing that makes it foreign is because the company headquarters is on the other side of the world.

    I obviously have no problems with Korean work ethic or abilities as I have now owned 3 Hyundai vehicles in my lifetime...so far. And to be honest, none of them were the ones manufactured here in the U.S. But here's another question...what does Korean work ethic have to do with the Ala. plant? I hardly think they shipped in a bunch of Korean workers to work at that plant. I'm pretty sure the plant is filled with American employees.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    LOL Well...if you were to take a spin in my car, you would hardly think I'm 37!!! Scary thing is...I'm hardly done with all the mods I have in store for my Azera.

    Image, I woud take the Altima over the current Maxima. You get almost everything the Maxima has to offer and more power to boot!

    I worry about image myself and yet, I still ended up in an Azera...by choice.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    what does Korean work ethic have to do with the Ala. plant?
    the comment meant to imply that that a Korean built Azera might be assembled better than one from Alabama. A common perception that also includes Tennessee built Nissans, Ohio built Hondas, and Kentucky built Toyotas. I have never seen anything statistical to indicate to me that this is true or not.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Thank you for clarifying. Actually...I have heard of this being the issue with Toyota. That the vehicles built over in Japan are of better quality than the ones made here in the U.S. I don't know this to be a fact either, but I have heard a few Toyota owners say it. If it were the case, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that the same would hold true with the Hyundai vehicles.

    Like the saying goes, if you want it done right...do it yourself.

    From my understanding the Hyundai vehicles that are made and sold over in Korea and other foreign markets, are exceptional in quality. Guess maybe they feel we don't deserve that same quality, so why not let us build them for ourselves.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    maintain that rating for consistency
    and that is exactly what Hyundai NEEDS to do for several more years for Hyundai to improve its image enough that the average car buyer will start to pay attention to what they are doing. It would bother me that the Co. flagship is developing some apparent quality problems in its second year of manufacture, its not like Hyundai is selling that many Azeras and they can't spend the time they need on quality control - something I perceive to be Toyota's problem in the last few years and also conversely, the reason for 'Detroit's' general improvement (along with older engines/trannies etc.) .
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Agreed, however...I still don't see much of an issue of them going from 'above average' to 'average' in their rating. I mean...it's not clear how close to 'above average' they still may be or where in the 'average' ranking they sit. Without having numerical scores in a range that differentiates each "ranking"...I don't put much stock into that bit of a slip. It would be a different story if they went from 'average' to 'below average'.

    Hyundai's problems...well, along with terrible customer support at most of their dealerships, along with an ever expanding line-up and not knowing how to market their vehicles...they just seem to be caught up in a whirlwind with no clear cut direction (as one poster stated before). If they sit down and come up with an agenda and goals they want to achieve, then they can prioritize and get things in order. If I were at the helm, I would actually hold up on the release of the Genesis and focus on quality control of the current line-up. Which, with the Accent and Elantra doing well in their segments, it shouldn't be that hard. The Santa Fe doesn't seem to have any issues, nor does the Tucson or Tiburon.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    well Hyundai does have one thing going for them - GM,Ford and Chrysler seem intent on 'giving' them what market share they wish! And I don't mean to imply that the Koreans don't 'earn' it as well, but the US mfgrs. abandoned the car market quite a while ago with generally inferior offerings and haven't shown an ability (or desire) to come up with anything that would change that. This is what also made Toyota #1 in the world - among other things. If Buick/Ford, for example, had figured out a way to make a 'Buick/Ford Azera' , I think the topics on this forum would be quite different.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Actually, a quick correction:

    GM is back at #1 thru. Q3 2007 worldwide; Toyota was #1 at the end of Q1 2007.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    It's no suprise, as the domestic market has really leaned heavily on it's trucks...always have, always will. Funny how Ford, Dodge and Chevy can all brag about having the longest lasting trucks on the road, but none of them can say much about their cars.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    With the likes of Saturn Aura, Chevy Malibu, Pontiac's G-Line (5-8), Cadillac CTS...they have something to build on.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    let's think about this a little - lets say you could have been the VP of Sales of a car company - and choose a product line that includes the Sonata/Azera vs. the Malibu/Impala vs. the Fusion/500 vs. the Sebring/Charger Where do you hang your hat - back in 2006, or today- and leaving the financial conditions of the respective cos. out of it?
  • colloquorcolloquor Posts: 482
    Re. Hyundai terrible customer support at most of their dealerships . . . I have experience at only two Hyundai dealerships, and the customer support I've received has generally been superb. However, technical knowledge on the part of some service advisors can be questionable.

    For example, Hyundai requires the use of SP-III ATF in their automatic transmissions. There is no substitute, otherwise you will void the warranty. Our local dealer uses "a Hyundai-approved SP-III synthetic equivalent." Again, there is no equivalent or substitute ATF for Hyundai/Kia/Mitsubishi SP-III ATF. It's amazing this dealership would not use ATF that Hyundai firmly specifies in their respective owner's manuals. This is one example of dealership ineptitude, but this not only applies to the Hyundais they sell, but Kia, and Mitsu as well.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    The Alabama plant is (or was) the most advanced plant in the world.

    All the robotics, with such precise tolerences, is amazing. The was a History Channel show about it and was available on You-Tube. Hyundai in Korea and practically other manufacturer anywhere had better build quality.

    But, only the Sonata & Santa Fe are currently built in AL.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 4492
    Mike
    The Veracruz has back up sensors, smart key, etc.
  • himi1himi1 Posts: 25
    Genesis was unveiled!!
    Read here(lots of pics): http://www.hyundai-blog.com/?p=26

    image
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Colloquor...I know there are dealerships that offer outstanding customer support. The two dealerships I go to are prime examples. I'm not saying they are all bad, but it seems from the complaints I've read on various Azera forums...there are a great number of Hyundai dealerships that treat customers like 4th rate citizens.

    I hate to say it, inept service advisors lends to bad customer service. If you're not getting what you're supposed to be getting for YOUR vehicle, how can that be good customer service? If you go in and happen to know more about your car than the mechanic that supposed to work on your car, how is that good superb customer service. Superb customer service means when you turn your keys over to the service department, you walk away with no worries knowing your car is in good hands and all will be taken care of.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Is the Smart Key the same thing as proximity key w/immobilizer?

    Considering how the Veracruz came out after the Azera, it's not a surprise. Now if those features don't make their way into the Azera, I would be surprised. I mean...the Veracruz is the flagship of Hyundai SUV's and the Azera is supposed to be the flagship of their sedans. It only makes sense...unless, the Genesis suplants the Azera as the flagship of the sedan line up. Which, considering the specs...it would. One could look at it like this...Genesis is 1A and Azera is 1B. LOL

    Unless of course, the Sonata gets phased out and the Azera takes over as the Sonata replacment, but then Hyundai would have to full sized sedans and no mid-size entry (unless Elantra steps up to fill that gap).
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    So much for saying the 3.8 V-6 can't be tuned to produce more HP, huh? Wait a minute...the 3.3 is getting a massage to kick out what the current 3.8 is producing. What is this world coming to???

    Funny thing, Hyundai produces HP ratings on regular fuel, not premium like most manufacturers do. Interesting, very interesting.

    Please tell me that you actually read the list of appointments the Genesis will have...WHOA!!! I can't wait to test drive one!!!!
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I really like the US version better than the S. Korean version:

    image

    More goods:

    http://www.carspyshots.net/showthread.php?t=14287&page=21
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    To be honest, the front end looks like an Azera w/different headlights. The sides are not as curvaceous either. Honestly, from this angle, it looks like the incorporated the look of the Azera and the look of the Sonata. I LOVE that grille though!!!!
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Funny thing, Hyundai produces HP ratings on regular fuel, not premium like most manufacturers do. Interesting, very interesting.
    and so does EVERYBODY else now - this being part of the SAE mandated rating changes that occurred for the 06 MY. Effective then, if a vehicle is sold as able to run on 87 octane the engine must also be rated with the same - hence the reason why the 2GR, for example, is rated at 272 hp in the Lexus ES (premium) and 268hp in the Avalon and Camry (regular). You surely don't think that only Hyundai is going to rate their engines any less than they actually are, do you? There are a few engines in this that do want premium - the Hemis, the Northstar (?), and possibly even the Nissan VQ (although I know for a fact that the Nissan engine handles regular just fine). Maybe not so 'interesting'? As a 'species' I would generally put the Hyundai engines on a tier below the Toyota/Nissan/Acura-Honda engines but generally above what is produced by everybody else. As I have posted earlier, if your Hyundai engine is sophisticated enough to effectively use the extra octane, using premium gas might boost your Azera's HP by a whole 3-4 hp, maybe not worth the 30 cents/gallon?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    heard that too, though I have not seen anything on the tube about it - wonder if the new Toyota truck plant (over $1billion to build) built in Texas more recently is now 'the most advanced'
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    nice looking interior - hmm, wonder where they got the idea for the screen surrounded by large buttons - kind of simple and clean - oops - haven't I seen this seen this before in my 05 Avalon? What, you can't see the audio system? Hmm, wonder where they got that from? Seems like a good job copying the 'best' most egronomic interior in this group. At least, the 'wood' looks better in these pictures.
    2 things that they seem to artfully avoid talking about in this article - the vehicles weight (logically well over 4000 lbs) and FE (maybe hasn't been tested yet) even with the smaller V6s. The 3.3 figures to run 7's 0-60, the 3.8 mid 6s, and the assummed gas hog V8 sub 6s. I'll be the first to guess about 19-20mpg overall for the 6s, and 3 to 4 less than that on the V8.
    A good looking alternative to things like the 300Cs and Charger Hemis - for sure and likely also for the G8/Aussie Impala. If we give Hyundai a pass and assume that magically car buyers are going to flock into Hyundai dealerships and consider this car to be a viable alternative to whatever, then why the heck would they even consider an Azera?
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Posts: 804
    Regarding FE, you are right. It hasn't been rated yet. As far as the weight, here is what Hyundai has released...

    3.3 -- 3732 lbs
    3.8 -- 3748 lbs
    4.6 -- 4006 lbs

    All this info, and lots more, can be found at:

    http://hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2009_Models/Genesis/Press_Release.asp

    ;)
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "then why the heck would they even consider an Azera?"

    I still think there are people that wouldn't buy a RWD vechicle fearing the poor traction in snow. Having said that, as much as I like the Genesis I don't see it selling for the same reason that the Azera sales are slow. Add to it a little bit of cannibalism (as you suggest) and I think Hyundai could be making a mistake bringing this car to market. Of course, it could just be a test for a year or two and the better selling vehicle will be the one that stays in the lineup. This situation would be no different than Toyota bringing in a varient of the GS sedan to the lineup and not dropping the Avalon.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Oh...

    Well, it is nice to hear someone think as highly of the Hyundai engines as you do. I mean...they are good solid engines, they could just use some tweaking in the FE department. However...in FE, the 3.8 is really no worse than Nissan's 3.5.

    You are very right in that 3-4 hp increase is not worth paying $ .30/gal, which would possibly equate to almost $6 extra for a tank of gas if you fill it up from empty. Is it worth that much to constantly have that few extra ponies...I think not.
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