Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

1173174176178179333

Comments

  • Car and Driver tests: Jul '06, Azera 0-60 ..6.1, 1/4 mile..14.8
    Jul '05 Avalon 0-60..6.0, 1/4 mile..14.6
    Jul '05 Maxima 0-60..6.1, 1/4 mile..14.9
  • The Charger V6 weighs about 100 lbs more than the Azera, and has only 4 speeds in the tranny which will keep your H/O engine further away from its power peak. That Borla exhaust must be a good one 'cuz the 300C with the 3.5 V6 was over a second slower to 60 than the Azera as tested by C&D magazine.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    Hey guys
    Least you forget, these forums are designed to pass along information, opinions, and to have some fun.
    Let's not get so emotional.
    Have a great day and enjoy your ride!
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    Re 3606: "the 300C with the 3.5 V6 was over a second slower to 60 than the Azera as tested by C&D magazine."

    Good point cobrazera. Prior to my '07 Azera I drove a 2000 300M. At the time, it performed well 0-60, in the mid 7's. I later added a K & N CAI and picked up about + 7 HP. The difference in sound during WOT was truly a joy to behold. I miss that in the Azera.
  • :)

    Thanks cobrazera for backing up what I knew but couldn't find to document.
    We know that the Charger is somewhat heavier, and what with the rear
    wheel drive and a less than modern V6, it simply has to be slower.
    Note the poor fuel economy ratings of the 3.5 compared to the Azera. :(

    The supposedly "hot" 5.7 V8 hemi is not. Relatively slow and very thirsty. Can't
    figure why anyone would buy one? At $.28 per mile for fuel in town, never mind!

    Noisy exhaust systems and CAI do not a fast car make.
    Why anyone would do that to a semi-luxury type car is beyond me? :confuse:

    With that chopped top styling and loss of forward visibility, you either love 'em or hate 'em.
    They are certainly popular with the custom oversized wheel crowd don't you know?

    To each his own, n'est-pa? ;)

    :)
  • vic10vic10 Posts: 188
    "The supposedly "hot" 5.7 V8 hemi is not. Relatively slow and very thirsty. Can't
    figure why anyone would buy one? At $.28 per mile for fuel in town, never mind! "

    A straight highway of 28 mpg and all around (i.e. back and forth to work in mixed driving) in the 20 - 21 mpg range don't think qualifies as very thirsty. 'Course if you know someone with a really lead foot....

    I don't as much question some of the performance figures given as I do their relevancy. 0-60 has always been the standard but it really is a stupid parameter. How many times do you do a zero to sixty accel? The Hemi is at distinct disadvantage in a zero to anything. A Yugo floored at a stoplight will beat out a Hemi at first. The Yugo will just slowly skip away while the Hemi will sit there and melt the tires down to the rims. I bet most cars would match the Hemi from a standing start up to 30, maybe 40 mph. All it takes is specific gearing for 1st gear. The Ford 500 would jerk your head from a standing start like it was a drag racer because it was geared that way, but then could barely get out of its own way. A more interesting performance parameter--and one that I would be interested in, is a 30 (i.e. from an on-ramp) to 70 (freeway speed). Don't think you'd be able to label the Hemi "relatively slow" in that situation, and don't think the "hot" performing Avalon or Azera would look as good as they do in the 0 - 60mph.

    P.S. For those commenting on the V6 in the 300C: 300C's don't come with anything but the Hemi. Praise the Lord....Amen.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    FWIW the Avalon is great from 30 - 70. The only problem is on full throttle at 30 MPH the tires will slip causing the TC to kick in momentarily limiting engine power.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    If adding Bora exhausts makes your Charger EQUAL to the Azera, then you won't be beating it at all. LMAO Keep trying Xtec, keep trying. The fact of the matter is...you have to dump more money into a Charger with a 3.5 V-6 just to try and get it to perform like or slightly better than a STOCK Hyundai 3.8. Again...Azera is the better value (which is what the whole Charger vs. Azera convo. started about anyway).

    Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....so because it doesn't say High Output, the Azera is slow??? Are you implying that because the 3.5 is an "HO" engine that the 250 hp it's rated at is a low rating? LMAO Simply put, the higher torque your Charger has will only mean that it'll get off the line better than the Azera. However, the extra HP in the Azrea will more than make up for that once in 2nd gear.

    The sad thing is...the Azera isn't even a "performance" sedan and it'll still run with a Charger with the 3.5 HO V-6. What should that be telling you??? The American V-6's are NOT keeping up with the foreign V-6's...simply put! Imagine if Hyundai did make the Azera more of a performance based sedan and cranked the torque up and stiffened the suspension. Your poor Charger definitely wouldn't stand a chance, even with the additional tuning you've done.

    Pull a stock Charger SXT w/3.5 HO V-6 off the show room floor and pull a stock Azera Limited with the 3.8 V-6...I guarantee you, it'll be a pretty close run, but the Azera will beat the Charger. Even with the add-on's you thrown in the mix, you MIGHT have just brought your Charger dead even with the Azera in the peformance category! LMAO Now THAT...is funny!!!

    You spent close to the same amount of money I did for your car, then you went and spent even more money to pump up the performance because you realized what everyone else has already stated, the 3.5 in your precious SXT is NOT worth a hill of beans. Oh...for your info, the 3.5 in your SXT MAY be the same engine that goes some of the police cars (however, it's is definitely not tuned like one), but the majority of them get the V-8. Only local municpalities get the V-6 versions. State and county police get the big guns when it comes to the engines in their cruisers.

    Nobody is underestimating the 3.5 YOU have, you're underestimating the 3.8 in the Azera because you haven't driven one and you really don't know what it's about.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    You totally missed the point of what was being said. You stated that your 3.5 is so great, that it's a high output engine and this and that, but...you had to ADD a performance exhaust and then make the statement that your 3.5 is now pretty equal to the 3.8 in the Azera.

    I know this may be asking a lot, but stop and think for a minute...

    ...okay, take another couple of minutes...

    Alright...are you getting it yet???

    Nobody is contending that you want to swap your car for anything else, you're entitled to your preference. I certainly wouldn't want to swap my Azera for a pathetic Charger/Magnum/300 with the 3.5. Okay, pathetic is rather harsh here...how bout sub-par...yeah, that works better. Which is what was being said all along, the Amercican V-6's just don't compete with the foreign V-6's. There are foreign 4 bangers that can run with American 6's all day long.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    " certainly wouldn't want to swap my Azera for a pathetic Charger/Magnum/300 with the 3.5"

    The only thing that the Chrysler cars have going for them is the fact they are RWD and look different from everything else. Oh... and the HEMI. Big deal, in the days of $3 per gallon gas the slightly better performance just isn't worth the FE penalty. Now if your talking the SRT versions obviously FE isn't a concern. The 3.5 V6 is OK, but like you I certainly wouldn't take it over an Azera or my Avalon.

    " the Amercican V-6's just don't compete with the foreign V-6's"

    The GM 3.6 and the Ford 3.5 are getting close. The power is just about there, just lacking some refinement.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Don't really know if RWD is a consideration of something they have going for themselves. I mean...the foreign entries have always been FWD and it's never been an issue. IMO, for the American V-6's to be so lacking...RWD really amounts to a hill of beans.

    The Hemi...obviously, if I'm jumping out there to get one of those...FE be damned! I'm getting it strictly for it's performance attributes.

    Yeah...there are a couple of American entries that are getting close, but still...no cigar. The best one right now is the GM entry that's in the Saturn Aura and the new Chevy Malibu. Then...won't that make the one that's in the Impala a joke??? Then, of course...there's the one that's going to be in the upcoming Pontiac G8 and the best one will probably be the one powering the '08 Cadillac CTS (304 hp).
  • xtecxtec Posts: 354
    Before you speak you should know what yout talking about.My Charger has the Mercedes 5 speed.I think a second slower is also a wrong statement.And as I said before the Azera wasn't on my mind when I had the Duals put on.After reading the Azera forums,I wouldn't drive to fast,the front shocks might fall off.I feel sorry for all Azera owners who have a '06/07 Azera.You bought a car with a engineering defect,or they wouldn't have to redesign the front suspension.If you look at the rating now it seems that the Azera is falling off.9.4 to the Charger's 9.8.People are realizing the Azera isn't all that.This forum is about differant models,yet all I hear hear is Azera this,Azera that.Well After reading all the problems the Azera has,your car isn't what its cracked up to be.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    To all: things are getting a bit too insulting in here. Let's be careful to remember that we are all here to express opinions. No one person's opinion is correct, and no one person's opinion is incorrect. We're all entitled to make our own assessment of each of these vehicles based on our own set of priorities. We are ALL fortunate to have so many wonderful vehicles available from which to choose.

    IOW, let's get out of each other's faces, please.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    You are not reading my previous post right. What I said was:

    with the type of car Charger is and given it's size and weight, any V6 under 300HP and V8 under 350HP is unacceptable.

    Charger is intended to be sporty and emphasizing on performance due to its RWD setup. Azera on the other hand is FWD and is intended to be a comfortable, luxury, yet powerful highway cruiser. Two different kind of cars, the only similarity between them is that they belong in the same EPA size category. Given that I think 263HP for the Azera is adequate and more than enough. However, for Charge it needs at least 300HP IMO to live up to the potential.

    Also, Charger being the sporty one but is 13HP less and 200 lbs more is another big no no in my book.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    Gee, and I thought people were upset when I said I had gone up to 140MPH with my Azera just to test it. Glad there wasn't a Charger next to me (particularly a police model ;) ).

    It sometimes surprises me how some get the impression that every 07 Azera (forgetting about the 06 for a moment) is assumed to have some type of front end suspension issue. Sorry to disillusion some of you, but mine (an 11/06 purchase) has never had any type of suspension or other problem, and none of the Azera owners I have actually spoken with has had that type of problem.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Okay, so what it has a Merceds 5 speed, it's still a Dodge 3.5. Nobody said you were thinking about the Azera when you put your exhaust system on. Again, YOU are the one that made the statment that putting the Borla exhaust system on made your Charger equal to the Azera. You said it, nobody else did. So don't get upset when folks jump on that piece of information and point out your Charger's shortcoming when directly compared to a stock Azera. *snicker*

    As far as driving the Azera fast...again, YOU are the one underestimating here. I've driven my Azera at 120+ mph with NO problems at all. There is no fear of front struts falling off. The ony issue is a "clunk" noise that is heard over rough surfaces (on some Azeras...not all). Which could very well just be poor strut design. So be it.

    The Azera fell down to 9.4 from 9.8, however...look at the number of postings that are there, 3 reviews for the Charger and 70 for the Azera. Even with the terrible suspension problems that seem to exist...the rating is still above 9 whick still puts it in very good company. So what is your point?

    You're right, this forum is about different models, and we've discussed the likes of the Charger/300, Taurus/500, Lucerne, Avalon, Azera, Amanti, Maxima and Impala. I think you're just upset now to have someone tell you that your Charger isn't worth an Azera...that's all.

    If you look at the number of reviews for each model represented in the forum, that would give you a clear indication as to why you might just hear a little more about the Azera as it seems there are more Azera owners posting than the other ones. Which is par for the course because with no reviews on the Amanti, it has rarely come up in any topic.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    We just luv our Azzy's and pity to he/she that demeans them, lol. ;)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    This 3.5 is not the same 3.5 when they first came out with the Intrepid,and Concorde,or LHS.This engine came out in '98 and been improved since
    I believe that the 2000 R/T version was the first year the 3.5 was available - earlier 'versions were 3.2s rated at about 220 hp.
    comparing specs. 2000 R/T 3.5 and current Charger 3.5 there sure doesn't appear to be any real difference. Both are 24 valve, sohc non vvt engines and share 250hp/250 lb. ft. ratings, even the 'tuned' versions that later appeared in things like the 300M were still within 5 hp or so of that '00 engine. I 'm not telling you it is not a decent effort particularily for a 'Detroit' mfgr, but I'm relatively sure any claim that Chrysler made that they improved anything on it is a lesson in 'GM speak' listening to them recount how many 'new' 3.8 liter engines they have produced over the last 50 years.
    If the Daimler folks had had any sense at the time they would have let Chrysler poach the MB 3.5 liter as well as those chassis and tranny pieces. Then the Charger would have a helluva (V6) powerplant, rivaling that of the Nissans and Toyotas.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Nobody said you were thinking about the Azera when you put your exhaust system on. Again, YOU are the one that made the statment that putting the Borla exhaust system on made your Charger equal to the Azera. You said it, nobody else did. So don't get upset when folks jump on that piece of information and point out your Charger's shortcoming when directly compared to a stock Azera.

    This was what I kept saying all along, allmet, but I just keep getting ignored and told I don't know how to read. It's probably best to just move on.

    Let me ask a question for a new topic and maybe move past this..

    What technology does the charger have in its engine (variable valve and cam timing, Variable Cylinder Management)? All I know is peak horsepower is down from the 300M that debuted in the 1990s. It was at the front of the class back then with a 253hp 3.5L V6, but now it seems just average, with cars like the Ford Taurus delivering 260+ through a 6-speed Auto, same true of Avalon and Passat etc...
Sign In or Register to comment.