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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Initially...it was stated that the Azera had more interior space than a 750 (I believe that was the model used).
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    doesn't surprise me - and the Azera is not even the biggest car in this group (in terms of interior volume) that honor shared by the Taurus and Avalon. The Taurus is the ine that 'shames' even the Avalon - if you include the size of that trunk! The point I guess I was making is that you really don't get a handle on how big a car is until you sit in it, the Azera may possibly be bigger than the Genesis in that regard, and lastly I'm not sure you really notice an extra 6" of length even 'side-by-side'..
  • When I read your post I was reminded of the first time I sat in the Avalon. I'm a big boy and unfortunately I don't mean tall, but I was just about ready to buy a Lucerne in Sept. of 06 when my wife suggested we go down the street and look at the car she liked, the Avalon. I was resistant to the idea, after all, it was a Toyota, and how comfortable could a guy my size be in one of those little Japanese cars.. Well son I am here to tell you, the minute I sat in the Avalon I realized immediately that I was much much more comfortable in the Avy than I was in the Lucerne, or the Grand Marquis that I had also test driven.. Long story short, that Avy sits in my garage tonight, not the buick or the Mercury. In addition to the room in the car, I liked the avalon over the Lucerne because I was able to get the horsepower I wanted in a six banger as opposed to haveing to go with the 8 Cyl. Northstar. I did think the ride was "alittle" smoother in the Lucerne, but apples to apples, I felt the Avy won hands down.

    Roland
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I also looked at the Lucerne and felt the same way about the powertrain options. If you follow this forum, I always say the Lucerne would be a solid #2 in this category if GM would put the 3.6 6speed in. As for the ride, it is a little softer than the Avalon, but I prefer the slightly stiffer ride in the Av because I feel it handles a little crisper (not that its a sports car by any means of course). As for comfort its tough to beat the Avalon, however, I will say that the seats in my '03 Av were a tad bigger than the '06 and even more comfortable.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "the CV/GM/TC perhaps the worst examples of 50-60s vintage design "

    I have a soft spot for full size Fords, but their time has past! Anyway, you are right about the 5er. I spent time in the rear of one recently and was surprised how roomy it was. I figured it would be worse than a Camry/Altima.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • thats why they dropped H from their grill.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I got quotes for a Lucerne CX with no options - try $25k and change. Compare that with a $20k quote for the Taurus, which is as quick as the V8 Lucerne and offers better mileage than the old 3.8 Lucerne, and the Buick becomes a tough sell.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I think you could do better now. Buick was advertising $3500 rebate in my area (3K some places) and I bet you can get at least 2500 from the dealer. I think it starts around 27500 - 2500 - 3500 = $21,500 . In all fairness I would think the base Lucerne is a little better equipped than the base Taurus. However, on the powertrain alone you are absolutely correct!

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    $20k quote for the Taurus
    $20k, now that would be a tall order to fill for a car in this group - on that budget. A stripper Taurus, a base Azera, a base Charger, a base Impala - perhaps - the Avalon/Maxima/Lucerne no. The bang for the buck deal IMO is probably the Taurus, but it sure doesn't mean anything good for Taurus resale values, so don''t count on it saving much (if anything) over a shorter (5 year or less) time frame. It's kinda sad that it takes Ford 3 years to finally get some competitive HP in that car and now they have to discount so heavily to sell it. Guess the name change really didn't fool anybody and/or the styling is objectionable to some.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I agree completely...the interior of the Taurus is CAVERNOUS!!! I've sat in an Avalon and to be honest...it's hard to say it has much more room than the Azera. As far as the interior space in the Genesis...they are touting it to be more spacious than an S-Class, see...references do come in handy! ;)

    Heck...we've seen the Max being a longer car than the Avalon and yet, having less interior space. So...exterior dimensions really don't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to the interior space. The other thing that plays a key in all that is how long the wheel-base is. The further out to the corners the wheels are, the more space is left for interior space.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    we've seen the Max being a longer car than the Avalon
    nope, the Avalon (exterior wise) is larger than both the Azera and the Maxima - and also with a coupla more cubic feet interior room which I think is primarily in the back seat. Believe the Azera measures at 109 CF which is a bt more than the Max, the Avalon at 111 cf actually tied with the Ford. This is really of little importance, the point being how well YOU fit in any car. I recently had a chance to drive a Mini Cooper (I refuse to give it the honor of calling it a BMW) but from a driver's perspective I think almost anybody could drive it - lots of room. People do come in a bunch of sizes and shapes.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Forgive me...I meant to say that the Max is longer than the Azera. :blush:

    You are right about the Mini...those things are so tiny to look at from the outside, but I've seen folks of various sizes driving them and not one of them looked uncomfortable. Unlike a guy 6'3", 280 lbs. tryin to squeeze into a Corolla, that same guy could probably be more comfortable in the Mini...as funny as it sounds.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    all 'transgressions' should eventually be forgiven ;)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    they are touting it to be more spacious than an S-Class,
    big deal, so what, ao are several other cars listed here
    now see this is what gets to me about Hyundai - it's like the boy who cried wolf - if they expect me to pay attention to whatever claims they make about any of their vehicles - they also need make those claims a less outrageous (things like comparing a Sonata to a 530 for example, a Veracruz to a Lexus, or an Azera to a 750/S class). Hyundai does not produce and probably will never produce a car even on the same continent as cars like that. I mean you don't see Toyota, Nissan, or even 'Detroit' attermpting to insult our intelligence in this manner. Maybe some folks are dumb enough to believe something like that - in my case, it just turns me away from the whole brand. Things like Hyundais (and Toyotas and Nissans) shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with some of those German and premium Japanese cars.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I'm just pointing that out...if the Genesis has more interior space than an S-Class...it's likely to be larger on the inside than the Azera.

    There you go again, they aren't saying anythign else, other than it has more room inside than the S-Class. Calm down...seriously.

    So I guess, in your words, I'm dumb to believe that the Azera has more interior space than a 750, or that the Genesis could be more spacious than an S-Class???

    I agree that none of the mainstream sedans shoudl be mentioned along with the premium sedans when it comes to mentionings of performance, handling and other such aspects, but if you're stating a tangible fact, it's a fact. IF a Nissan Sentra had more interior space than a 5-Series and Nissan chose to use that fact...they wouldn't be wrong...IT'S A FACT.

    Now if someone is dumb enough to believe that using a fact that references interior space as saying that it's a better car...maybe they don't need to be looking at cars.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I think it goes beyond that and indicates to me how unrealistic the Koreans are. Their heads are frankly up their own butts. Perhaps the best example that ad they ran for a long time the Sonata vs. the 528 (I think).,. Went a whole lot further then simply some interior space claims and into some vehicle performance numbers. The day that Hyundai can build something like even a 528, is the same day that the sun rises in the west! And no I'm not really upset, only because I know better, it is Hyundai that needs to stay on the right side of the tracks.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I'm dumb to believe that the Azera has more interior space than a 750, or that the Genesis could be more spacious than an S-Class
    and so is a MINIVAN - maybe we should ask Hyundai to drop a V8 in the Entourage, heaven knows what they would come up with.
    The fact, really is, that cars like the Sonata/Azera are relative marshmallows even compared to Camrys/Avalons, never mind trying to compare them to really good cars - in any respect.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    With the Sonata, they did say it had more power than the 528...which, if you squint with one eye and strain the other one...you can see the inference that the Sonata is faster than the 528, but in reality...anyone that knows about cars will know...it simply has more hp. In a flat out run, the Sonata MAY jump out in front for a second or two, but...the 528 will more than likely beat the Sonata. There was nothing stating that the Sonata would beat the 528.

    Now if they say the Sonata was faster from 0-60 than the 528, again...it's a fact if it can be backed up. Well...then the Sonata IS faster than the 528 from 0-60. Did Hyundai say the Sonata handles better than a 528? Does the Sonata give the driving experience of a 528? Does the Sonata make one laugh as they drive past someone in a 528? No. No, and No again. All they are saying is...you can get a car with more hp than a BMW 528 and pay WAY less money for it. I don't know about you, but isn't that a straight up fact? Can it be disproven in any way?

    Okay...so the Japanese have never jumped out there and used the Euro premium sedans in comparisons to their own...so what. Hyundai is brazen enough to step outside the norm and do just that. Bravo for them for having the gumption to do things unconventionally. Maybe that's the aggressive behavior they need to have in order to change their image.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Ahhhhhhhhhh...but a mini-van isn't a large sedan, so now you're comparing two different things. The Genesis and the S-Class are both large sedans, right?

    Ride quality was never brought up...why are YOU throwing it in there??? You keep taking one simple fact and spreading it to other aspects and Hyundai hasn't even done that. Basically...all of this has been contrived by you and what YOU think.

    If someone walked up to me and said, "Hey...I just sat in a Genesis and it's bigger inside than that S-Class I own." I hardly think the first thought in my head would be,"Wow...it must handle better since it's got more room inside." LOL Come on, seriously...how silly does that sound? I could see your argument if Hyundai was going around saying that the Genesis would rival the S-Class in ride quality or handling capability. Until it was proven by some respectable publication and presented in writing...even I, as pro Hyundai as I am, would have a very, very hard time accepting that information.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Ahhhhhhhhhh...but a mini-van isn't a large sedan, so now you're comparing two different things
    Exactly what Hyundai is doing - the Sonata has as much in common with a 528 as I do - with Arnold Schwarznegger.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...technically, no...Hyundai is comparing two cars of like size and similar functionalities.

    So...let's say Toyota says that the Camry has more hp than a BMW 528 and gets better FE...would they be wrong?
  • don90don90 Posts: 14
    Hope I don't step on anyone's toes but the extremely high number of replies and the praises heaped on the Avalon sounds very suspicious. It just may be that Toyota Marketing and Toyota Customer Experience have been working overtime to infiltrate and pad the results in favor of the Avalon. After all they do monitor most if not all of these forums just to stop or distort negative reports. Again I apologize to all the legitimate replies.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    YES, its an inappropriate comparison
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think you could do better now.

    The quote I received was Out-The-Door on both models. The Buick quote was gotten yesterday, so I doubt it would be better today. :) The Taurus quote, however, is over a month old.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    no toes, you must be new to this forum - this is forum is dedicated to the furtherance of Hyundai products (of all things), and has been for the last year or so.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Huh? Most of the posts you see about the Avalon are by folks that actually own them. In reality, compared to all the cars that are listed as the topic of discussion for this forum...it's actually the best car of the bunch. I haven't seen any posts that exaggerate anything that hasn't been proven by any comparos done by folks such as Car & Driver, Motor Trend and the likes. I haven't seen anyone post anything that wasn't true about the Avalon.
  • well same can be said for Nissan/ Huyndai / ford/ chrysler etc
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    You are entitled to your own opinion. They are simply stating facts, unless those facts are found to be untrue...they can state them in any manner as they see fit.

    Inappropriate you say? LOL That's funny.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    Grad,

    What was the MSRP of the Lucerne? It had to higher than 27500. You said CX with no options. If the price is indeed 27500- 28K the dealer didn't take anything off the price of the car except for the rebate which is not a good deal. Obviously, no matter how you cut it, considering what the Taurus gives you the initial price is hard to beat. However, as Captain pointed out in a few years it will be worth next to nothing.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    in all fairness
    proven by any comparos done by folks such as Car & Driver, Motor Trend and the likes
    car comparisons,ratings etc. PROVE very little they are only opinions. :)
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