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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I'm really starting to see how diesel would be the way to go here! (sic) :sick:

    Tell me again how diesel would be an advantage????
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    $3.73 for premium here in metro LA. :sick:
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Louis...you use premium???
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I don't have a choice, my car requires premium. :cry:
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    OUCH!!! :sick:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Which is this? Most just "recommend" it, but don't actually require it. Our Odyssey was this way, causing horsepower to drop from 210 to 205 if you used regular. No biggie.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I know most are "recommend" but mine is "required". I don't think anything would happen if I put in regular but by doing that I would probably void the factory warranty.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    May I ask what kind of vehicle this is?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    It's not a large sedan, I have an IS350.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thanks... curiousity had the best of me. :)

    Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Posts: 442
    Personally, I don't know why it is necessary for the drastic annual changes for any automobile. I would rather they make and refine what they make than come out with a new vehicle, just to please the eye. Then again, that is why I don't buy a new car every year. I would rather see improvements, particularly in the FE line than a new tail light, or fin, or some other external change. My 2 cents.
    van
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I don't know why it is necessary for the drastic annual changes for any automobile. I would rather they make and refine
    you are an uncharacteristically intelligent auto buyer. The reason WHY has to do with tradition (remember when Detroit's new car introductions were an EVENT) , buyer expectations (the new car buyer doesn't want his new car to look like last year's model) and lastly, of course sales - there has always been a widely held misperception that 'new' is better when, in fact, the opposite may be closer to the truth.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I don't know why it is necessary for the drastic annual changes for any automobile

    What vehicles change drastically every year? If anything the cycles are getting longer. For example the Avalon didn't get one change (other than option packages) until its 4th year.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    On average...a particular model refresh lasts about 3-4 years (in most cases).

    The Azera...has gone through minor changes, but remains overall the same car when you look at it now going from 06 seemingly into 09. The previous XG ran from 02-05.

    Avalon ran in 4 year stints...95-99, 00-04 and 05-present. Maybe a refresh coming in 2010???

    The Maxima was all over the place...81-84, 85-88, then...89-94, 95-99, then a quick 00-03 and then...04-present. It was due.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    Oh I agree there is no need for drastic annual changes, I used to drive volvos so I know all about long lasting body "styles". It is just the Grand Marquis has been left languishing for so long that no one considers it anymore, despite the fact it probably isn't as bad as the age of its platform might suggest.
    Scott
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    Fair enough, I am just saying that none of these cars is a fuel miser at this time, and I agree you probably aren't going to see a 4 cyl in them anytime soon (at least I hope not). A diesel might be better if the price falls back into line, otherwise the milage will be better but the costs will be about the same (and I am a believer in diesel for the short to medium term).
    Scott
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    Maybe a refresh coming in 2010???

    I read somewhere that not until 2011 :(

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    wasn't it really the Japanese that 'convinced' Detroit that it really wasn't necessary to reinvent the wheel every year? I think back to major body redesigns you could pretty much count every year in the 50s and 60s by those Detroit brands even if the car underneath the new body style was really the same. Fins lasted what? 2 years?
    The Avalon may get enough body style changes in 2010 (or 2011) that it really looks different than the 2005 but I would bet that the basic car underneath is not changed much - why fix something that ain't broke? The 2009 Maxima OTH needed enough changes that would upgrade it some although it too is much the same basic car underneath.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    would bet that the basic car underneath is not changed much

    Probably right, think back to the 96+ Avs that platform was used until the '05+ came out.

    Speaking of the Maxima... I can't wait to see one in person. I really like the new look and the interior is so much better than the previous generation.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the interior is so much better than the previous generation
    if there is one common complaint about Nissan products this is probably it. The 2002 Altima was revolutionary in many respects but with an interior lacking in comparison to Camrys/Accords, same could be said for the G35 in its class, and the Maximas in its various renditions. I don't think Nissan really learned to make a nice interior until the 05 Ms, the new Maxima quite similar (and quite a bit better) - there seems to be a 'richness' to it never seen before in that car.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    The interior was a big turn off to me when I last drove a Max. The new generation looks to have fixed that. I still worry about the car having a CVT, but only a test drive will settle that.

    Here is a nice article click here</a

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • cdmuilecdmuile Posts: 152
    Re the CVT: We just got a new Rogue. Forget everything you know about an auto tranny. The CVT is wierd to say the least. It seems to maximize FE while seemingly searching around alot. Not really, just your perception. We've had the car for about 3 months now and I kinda like the CVT. It'll take more than a test spin around the block before you can form an opinion. It does get the power to the drive wheels in the most efficient manner. Still, it feels strange.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I experienced it in a Ford 500 and absolutely hated it. However, in all fairness, that car is underpowered to begin with. So, I'll give it another shot once the Max comes out. It certainly seems to be somewhat like a traditional auto with the switchable ratios (or whatever they are calling it) that you can change with the paddle shifters.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    It'll take more than a test spin around the block before you can form an opinion.
    and this may be a problem for Nissan trying to restablish the Maxima, especially on the 'sporty' side of things - people do buy cars based on a test drive. The same people that would appreciate the Maxima's power and 'tightness' are the same ones that'll likely not to like the CVT. It used to be that CVTs didn't hold up real well in high HP/torque applications and was a transmission choice for the econoboxes of the world - Nissan has apparently solved that, but you would still have to wonder what makes their CVT so much better.
    An interesting decision though to keep the CVT while trying to revive the whole 4DSC thing. A seeming contradiction. I have a sneaking suspicion that the CVT is something my wife would love, and something I might not. BUT I do understand who really makes decisions in my house :cry:
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    a source for cost of ownership numbers. Nothing too terribly surprising other than for those cars that are perceived to be the 'best values' that this is NOT necessarily the case.

    http://www.automobilemag.com/new_car_costs/01/toyota/index.html
  • vic10vic10 Posts: 188
    With people now dissing 4-speed trannies, some even the 5-speed, and Lexus having an 8-speed, you'd think CVT would be utter perfection for all. Personally I think a good 3-speed will give you great performance if the engine has a wide enough power and torque band...and maybe a 4th for overdrive highway cruising. More than that can cause gear hunting if the algorithms aren't right. And with today's "learning" transmissions, that hunting is sometimes exaggerated. I've driven a Cadillac DTS with the Northstar V8 and 4-speed, and a STS with the Northstar and 6-speed and I found the 4 speed to be a better match for that engine for just that reason.

    As one of my favorite lines from the movies goes: Sometimes more isn't better, it's just more.....
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    The Azera actually comes out $1900 more than the Avalon.... but you knew that already, didn't you ;)

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the number that surprises me is that the first year depreciation on the Azera at $7k is about double the Avalon $3.5k - keeping in mind these TCO numbers are for 'base' models. According to these numbers, the Avalon would recover pretty much all its purchase premium really quickly bought new but it also says that the Azera is far and away a cheaper car to own if I buy them one year old. You have to wonder if the 'Korean car' rep combined with the non-transferrability of that warranty isn't the culprit.
    This site does allow you to run the TCO of about any car you'd like pretty easily and will also give you TCO numbers for the higher (more expensive) trim models. It is kinda amazing that the top 3 in the TCO sweepstakes (Av/MaxAzzy) are the same 3 cars that dominate CR rankings and generaaly the mag. comparos.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    true, but I think it is also true that the CVT is much simplier and less to repair (more like those 'old fashioned' 4 speeds you mention) than these new 6 speed + jobs where a $3 or $4k rebuild is common.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    It is kinda amazing that the top 3 in the TCO sweepstakes (Av/MaxAzzy) are the same 3 cars that dominate CR rankings and generaaly the mag.

    Which goes to show that you really can't go wrong with either of the 3, it's just a matter of preference.
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