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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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  • Yes this discussion is posted on all of the Large Sedan Forums at Edmunds. I read it at the Buick Lucerne Forum.

    Each owner seems to understandably defend their personal choice as the best car.

    However in what order are that person's preferences?

    Mine must be it this order.
    Smooth Quiet Ride, Trouble-Free, Dependable, Cloth Seating, LuxuryOptions, Smooth Engine Performance, MPG, Cost, Warranty, Resale Value.

    Now mix up that list in 5 ways and you may get 5 "best " cars.

    Comments?
  • I was just reading the post by TJC78 and I find it hard to believe he actually test drove a V8 Lucerne and compared it against an Avalon. I will not claim to be an expert on the Avalon I only know what I have read. The Avalon may have more power or feel like it has more power I won't deny that as I have not driven one.

    In the Lucerne forums however I have heard Avalon owners complain about vibrations, engine noise, transmission trouble, bad suspension.

    I'll tell you what I challenge any car out there to give as smooth and quiet a ride as the V8 Lucerne. I have one and I absolutely love it. I wouldn't trade it for anything. It has plenty of power for me it will light the tires anytie you ask.

    I am not bashing you and don't mean this to be a slam but please to bash the Lucerne because 'you feel' the Avalon has more power is absurd. It is a great car and if people can get over their Buick Prejudice they would see how great.

    91 LeSabre - Donated at 212,000 miles still running strong
    97 LeSabre Limited - Still own with 165,00 miles still running strong.
    06 Lucerne CXL V8 - 10,000 Miles no issues yet runs as great as the day we drove it off the lot.
  • I could not agree more.

    I am finally replacing my 1994 Park Ave. (bought new),156,000 miles and it still runs great! I will take delivery of my specially ordered New Lucerne in 3 weeks.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I drove them back to back within 15 minutes and on the exact same course. The dealers are across the street from one another. The Av is quicker, had a better ride, the enigne was quieter, and I preferred almost everything about the car. I had someone with me who felt the same way too. Not to start a war here, but the Buick is not a new car. The Engine and trans are ancient. The Av gets way better mileage (23/31 compared to 17/25) because of the 5 speed tranny. My Avalon has not one rattle, no trans issues, vibrations, anything. The only thing I can say bad about the car is the Bridgestone tires are a little noisy. I should have gotten one with the Michelins. The Avalon forum has its share of complaints, but also a lot of praise for the car. Don't get me wrong the Lucerne is a nice car, probably one of the nicest GM's I have ever driven, but has a little way to go yet. Also, the Avalon came in with a much lower monthly payment on a three year lease for almost indentical MSRP. The residual was better and when I was looking there weren't any incentives on the Buick, (not that there was on the Av either)

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    to be fair here - you are comparing FE figures of a V8 versus a state of the art V6 although the HP figures are very close - the reason why the Avalon is so much quicker and so much more economical is that it weighs substantially less and not so much to do with the number of gears in the tranny.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    Forgot about the weight difference, the Av is 400 lbs less. However, your point kind of proves mine. The V8 Lucerne is just a new design with an old powertrain, whereas the Toyota design is much more modern and efficient.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • buzz123buzz123 Posts: 35
    You're right, that is an interesting difference between what JD Powers and Consumer Reports say. I guess they're both right. My Malibu was fine for the first 3 months. Actually I think it was fine for the first couple of years, but after that it was one thing after another, after another, after another...........
  • buzz123buzz123 Posts: 35
    Yes, I am enjoying my XL! Glad you're enjoying your Touring! You're right, it is a wonderful car!
  • buzz123buzz123 Posts: 35
    That's a really good question. I actually looked at the Accord and Camry first. However, I have a bad back and the seats in those cars just weren't comfortable enough for me. That's what sold me on the Avalon. The seats are very comfortable and just right for my back. Based on my bad experience with GM and my Malibu, I just couldn't bring myself to consider any of their products. Personally, I don't like the looks of the Chrysler 300 or Dodge Charger so that eliminates those choices. I guess for me, it would come down to the Five Hundred, Azera, Sonata or Maxima. If you're taking the Avalon off the list because of price then the Maxima would probably have to come off the list for the same reason. That leaves either the Five Hundred, Azera or Sonata. Each car has its pluses and minuses so it's hard to say for sure. I think a final decision has to be based on which of the pluses and minuses are most important to each person. Since I have a bad back, the most important thing to me is comfortable seats, so that would probably be the tie breaker for me. If IIHS test scores or trunk size are most important go with the Five Hundred. If Consumer Reports ranking or the engine is most important go with the Azera/Sonata. There's really no right or wrong answer. Just what suits each person best given their particular set of circumstances.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    'Detroit' in general has always been very good with V8 engines and not so good with the technology that allows my Avalon the 27 mpg overall that I get and the low 6 second 0-60 times that is supposedly possible. Can't remember any smaller displacement 4 or 6 cylinder engine that could hold a candle to engines available from Europe and Japan - the 'Detroit' approach - attack the problem with displacement.
    The Lucerne V8 is only marginally slower (7 second), the 300 hp V8 Impala SS marginally quicker (high 5s), but both with a substantial FE penalty.
    Can't imagine, however, that for whatever faults the Lucerne may or may not have, it should be every bit as quiet as any Avalon - this is precisely what a Buick is all about - isolation. If you remember it was the Avalon that made a reputation as a 'better Buick' and both cars were sold heavily to an older demographic. While the Buick has not changed much, the Avalon has. And there are a number of folks that prefer a V8 'rumble' to that exhilirating V6 'growl' the Avalon has at anything over 4000 rpm or so. If a soft/quiet ride is paramount, the Lucerne is a logical choice.
  • usfarbuousfarbuo Posts: 13
    Is this a Buick or Toyopta forum. I "hit" Azera on my computer but all I see are remarks about the buick or avalon.
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Posts: 141
    I also think that Toyota is being a little greedy not to give rebates or incentives for a soon to be one year old model. One reason why the Azera will give it a run for its money.

    Don't think so.

    There is no greedy car company, as there is no generous car company. Everything is dictated by demand and supply. If Toyota offer more incentive than needed, there will be a huge line up waiting for Avalon deliveries. And then some customers are not pleased by the 6 month wait.
  • buzz123buzz123 Posts: 35
    I think the forum is supposed to be anything that falls into the large sedan category and is less than $30K. You're right, so far, it seems like most of the contributors have been Avalon owners followed by Buick owners. However, I think comments about any of the vehicles that fall into this category, including the Azera that you mentioned, are welcome. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before more owners of other vehicles start contributing as well. Feel free to make any comments you have about the Azera or any other vehciles in this category that you're intrested in.
  • buzz123buzz123 Posts: 35
    I think that's a great way to look at it! You're right when you said "Each owner seems to understandably defend their personal choice as the best car." I like your list of preferences especially the cloth seats. I prefer cloth seats as well.
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Posts: 559
    Seems to me there is a clear winner here.
    Look at the power, equipment, price, warranty and dimensions.

    Verdict: HYUNDAI AZERA

    Tell me where I am wrong.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    I went to the Chicago Auto Show in Feb. and the one car that impressed me the most was the Azera. I am 6'4" and can sit in the driver's seat and get out and sit in the back driver's side seat comfortably. The Avalon is nice, but my head hits the roof in the back seat and the styling is bland. The Buick everyone is bashing was nice, but unremarkable styling turned me off. I loved the look of my 1992 Park Ave. Ultra. That was a sharp vehicle and was very relaible for the 6 years I owned it. I will certainly look at the Azera when new car time comes as in terms of car for the $$$ no one else can compare. Right now with kids and stuff to carry, I love my Dodge Magnum RT. There is no other sport wagon than can even come close in value and performance for the $$$. But, I am prejudiced towards what I picked.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    I'm going to do what Pat suggested in another Mix discussion: tell what I like and would like different.

    I like that the Lucerne replaces a range from LeSabre Custom to Park Avenue Supercharged with one car. So the Lucerne is really a dichotomy (trichotomy) or cars. I like the idea of cloth seats and smooooooth 3800 motor for those of us who don't like to drag race with high revs 99% of the time. I like the smooth but well-controlled ride; it's not your father's Buick ride anymore. Even our 03 is taut.

    I'd like to see the standard bench seat available on each model and with cloth seats; I don't want to have to buy a console in the middle of the front seat to get cloth seats again like my older Buick has. I hate the leather.
    I'd also like to see the Lucerne marketed as 3 different cars so that the CR and competition couldn't stereotype one model as the character of the other two; i.e., 3800 base softer ride vs Northstar wheel-scrubbing V8 with computer controlled ride struts-one of the best rides, I've read.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    >Not to start a war here, but the Buick is not a new car.

    Isn't the Avalon built on the Camry chassis? The 17/25 is for the powerful Northstar. The 3800 v6 is higher and it will deliver the mileage. See my earlier post as to the varied characteristics of the car.

    The 4-speed auto works great, especially when you have a motor with torque, which both do. There is no hesitation problem with the trans/motor combo.
  • man, azera looks clear winner to me. i love avalon and maxima, but they are so expensive.
  • Hey that's OK TJC you got your opinions I just wanted to point it out ot you. I really don't see where there could be any car much quieter or smoother than my Lucerne but I haven't ridden in an Avalon so I won't knock you. I refuse to buy a Japanese car just because I will not put an American out of work. EVen though I know Toyota probably has Assembly plants here in the US I still refuse to do it. Especially after losing my job back in 2002 to Indian IT Consultants. To boot I had to train them too so they could take my job. That was the worst training the guy to take your job. Good luck with your Avalon I hope you don't have the problems others have reported!! :)
  • tinydog1tinydog1 Posts: 83
    I test drove the Avalon and Azera when lookin for a new car. The Azera won hands down. The Avalon exhibited a hesitation on acceleration, was noisier, and the trans did not shift smoothly. The Azera is so fluid, super smooth engine and trans, smooth throttle response, quiet, excellent ride, and fit and finish is flawless. No regrets here, no problems, has performed flawlessly. Purchased the Limited w/ Ultimate package for thousands less than an Avalon Limited. I loved the Azera so much, I went out and purchased an 06 Sonata LX, also an awsome car. :)
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Posts: 271
    Only Buick fans here? How about Impala and Charger? To tell the truth, I personally like all the sedans in this forum but the Amanti. I don't find the design appealing at all. As for the 300, I know only the 2.7L fits in this forum and I don't think it has a lot of fans. Unless someone proves me wrong.

    Captain2 and Buzz123, what are your favorite American made and why? Question open to all.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Posts: 271
    There is an article that compares the Honda Accord V6, Toyota Camry, Hyundai Azera, and Buick Lucerne because all are in the same price range.

    Can anyone guess how the order turned out? Like if it's anything new.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    This discussion is about all of the vehicles listed at the top of the page.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    averigejoe, you need to email me immediately.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "Isn't the Avalon built on the Camry chassis?"

    No the 05, 06 Avalon was a complete redesign. The earlier Avalons were on a stretched Camry frame.

    You cannot compare the 3800 V6 to the Avalon V6 not even close. It is a good engine, can't knock that. But coming in at only 197 HP and still getting less MPG than the competitors puts the car at a disadvantage.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    >06 Avalon was a complete redesign. New engine, trans, and chassis. The earlier Avalons were on a stretched Camry frame.

    "Redesigned from the ground up, the Avalon now rides on a stretched version of the current Camry platform."

    Anything that starts with something else and 'stretches' it is not a redesigned from ground up. It's based on the Camry platform which has been stretched.
  • oilcan2oilcan2 Posts: 120
    Avalon is built on a bigger chassis and the 3800 engine is
    197 hp compared to 268 and is rated at 28 hyw mpg.All else
    being equal I would chose the AV with better mileage and alot more power.I did test drive a Lucerne and what I did'nt
    like was the 1960's 6 by 9 rear speakers compared to the
    Avalons powered subwoofer,its a small point but this was the
    upgraded radio on the Lucerne and the Avalon sounded much
    better.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    "The Avalon is the first Toyota that is not only styled and built in the United States but is also completely engineered here. The all-new platform and 3.5-liter, 280-hp V-6 were designed in our backyard in Ann Arbor, Michigan, at the Toyota Technical Center, and they'll make their way into many future Toyota and Lexus vehicles."

    This was taken from a popular auto magazine's website. The 05 Avalon was a new design. Yes, now it shares its platform with the Camry as it always did. My point is that it is new, not recycled.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    Shares platform. My point exactly. My source is Edmunds.... ;)

    It's the Camry chassis stretched. Says it right there without the spin.
    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=105147/pageNumber=5

    Paragraph #3.
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