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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Maybe not a 3.8 Genesis against a 535, but the 4.6 V-8 against the 550!

    Wanna put down a gentlemen's bet?

    I say that there is no way the Genesis V8 will out accelerate the 550i in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

    If I lose I'll post why Azera is superior than Avalon and it is the number one choice. If you lose then you'll have to post why Avalon is superior and king of the segment.

    You game?
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    Prior to purchasing my Azera I owned an Infiniti Q45 and before that two BMW seven series.
    The sales staffs at both Infiniti and BMW were extremely knowledgeable about their products. The Service Writers, Service Manager and the technicians { used to be called mechanics) were well trained, neat and efficient.
    The cars were always returned to me cleaned, with no dirt or grease marks on interior or exterior.
    I understand that the cars were much more costly to purchase and service, but that is to be expected with a luxury car.
    I am not sure that Hyundai or it's dealers, at this time, have the mindset to provide
    luxury service to their customers.
    If one is looking for price alone and is willing to sacrifice some of the other pitfalls, the Azera and Genesis can prove to be successful.
    Only time will tell.
    As an "early" Azera buyer, I would have hoped that Hyundai would have taken quicker steps to introduce the features that were lacking in the first models.
    To me, the gripe is that those features have been available in Korean versions from day one.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Ummmmmm...HELLO, you would expect a WRX beating some form of BMW, after all...it does have direct rally car lineage!!!

    You must not know too much about your cars then if you don't think BMW's are not 0-60 machines. They are THE performance sedan to which other performance sedans set their standard.

    Funny, you'll concede to a BMW that has 35 less HP and close to the same weight as your Maxima, but you don't think an Azera with 2 less hp can actually hang. You're a funny guy...truly!!!!

    To put it bluntly...your Maxima would walk over a 528.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,023
    "If you lose then you'll have to post why Avalon is superior and king of the segment"

    Well.... that certainly won't be hard!! :)

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Actually...Louiswei, that's not a good bet because I wouldn't want you to post that the Azera is superior to the Avalon. That is not something I've ever said, nor do I believe. The only thing I have ever said in regards about the Azera in relation to the Avalon is that it offers the Avalon stiff competition and is a very viable option. :blush:

    So...your wager is really a moot point.

    The Genesis may not outaccelerate it, but it would very, very close considering the Genesis would have 8 more HP, but it would also weigh about 100 lbs. more than the 550i. So...you're right, in that respect, the Genesis wouldn't necessary pull away, but I'll be damned if the BMW owner wouldn't be upset that he couldn't shake the guy driving the Genesis. ;)
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,023
    "but I'll be damned if the BMW owner wouldn't be upset that he couldn't shake the guy driving the Genesis"

    In all honesty... 0 - 60 would be damn close. However, what I would want to see if the Genesis has the suspension tuning to keep up with it in the curves. That would be more impressive

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Just like the Genesis owner would be upset he couldn't shake the Evo or STI. There are always cars that are faster than yours, but it's the execution along with form/function that matters.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Actually...neither the Genesis or the 550 would be able to keep up with the Evo or STI. I saw a run on the Speed channel where they compared a Evo to a Lambo Murcielago and the Lambo couldn't shake the Evo. Actually, the driver in the Evo pushed the Lambo into a mistake and the Lambo spun out in a turn and the Evo took over.

    Lambo is supposed to be so much better in form and function than an Mitsubishi built Evo. I mean...there shouldn't even be a competition between the two, right? LMAO So to be honest...the Evo or STi would actually dust the Genesis AND the 550i.

    However...you're missing the point here. People pay premium $$$ for the status that comes with a BMW and in their mind, nothing is supposed to touch it in any way. Now along comes this "lowly" Hyundai and all the sudden, your status symbol is being challenged. THAT...is hilarious!!!
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Well...the known 0-60 time on the 550i is 5.5 seconds.

    As far as the suspension tuning on the Genesis, it's being said to be impressive as Hyundai is using an all new configuration. How it does in real world testing...remains to be seen.

    To be honset, I'm rather excited that there's a possibility of a Hyundai giving a BMW a run for it's money. Not just saying that it has more HP, or that it has more room or that it has more cup holders. The fact that the Genesis has the POTENTIAL to compete with one performance-wise.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    you better look before you leap (or before you attempt to pink slip one of them.) The 528 is about 225 hp, and heck even your Azera would take that down, the 535 (which is the one I mentioned) is right at about 300hp artifically aspirated and are torque monsters. And dare I suggest that those Bavarian horses are a tad bigger than the Korean variants. BMW has a history of underrating its engines as well as publishing somewhat conservative performance claims unlike the Japanese and Koreans. You can do that when everybody knows that you make really great engines and pretty much have for over 50 years.
    I don't believe any car short of the 300C in this group will accelerate with a 535, and I would even go so far as to suggest that your precious Tau V8 isn't going to keep up with a 550 either - although it should easily run with the 300C/Impala. All somewhat educated guesses, of course - but if I were you in that 3.8 Genesis that you are hoping the wife will let you have - I'd sure stay away from most of those nasty German sedans!
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Like I said, maybe not outrun any, but sure 'nuff give 'em a run for their money.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    you and I, and a good part of people here are well versed on the fact Hyundai makes class competitive products
    well we are certainly 'gear heads' aren't we. As an owner of a Toyota and a Nissan, I'll certainly admit to having 'Japanese' bias if for no other reason then I have 2 very powerful, comfortable, reasonably economical, and to this point 'bulletproof''cars. And I had to wait a little while before I got a chance to drive an Azera (neighbor bought one) and look forward to weaseling my way into a Genesis - because I like cars, especially the more practical sedans. My best guess right now, though, is that like 'tjc' I will also be influenced by maybe 4 or 5 mpgs (or more), will disqualify the Genesis 3.8 on that basis, and will re-up into another Avalon.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Here is my reasoning - the Santa Fe, for example, has a much larger customer base than the Azera (which is still much unknown around the country). The Santa Fe has the larger customer base because of its equity carried over previously. Similarly, stablemates in the US such as F-150, Camry, Accord sell by the lots, with or without marketing, of course marketing is essential, and effective marketing is even better. The brand itself (Hyundai), unfortunately, doesn't contribute much, yet, despite a fine automobile the Azera is.

    Just as Hyundai has seen dramatic improvements in amazing short time, and the vehicles currently enjoying their success, good products like the Azera will receive their dues, in time. The pain it endures along the way is just the process to get better. Hyundai has to be patient, as we all know the turn around doesn't happen overnight - Toyota and others, having experienced similar ordeals, have all worked many many years to become where they are today.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Good to hear!! Certainly everyone's priority is different. It's always a good thing there are different choices to choose from. It'd be boring if everyone had the same thing.

    On that note, I am glad Hyundai and most other automakers are improving their fleet constantly. The better the car, the stiffen the competition, normally, but generally, we, the consumers benefit as well, with better cars to choose from.

    I admire companies like Hyundai. Although I don't own one of their vehicles, I have driven many Hyundai vehicles over the year (and other brands as well). Personally, I find it amazing the Koreans can put together well-built automobile that match or exceed, and run with the "big boys", for the most part. This is one of the main reasons I would have no problem owning one (Genesis?) and having it as my daily driver; equally, I wouldn't mind recommending to those in the market (which I am happy to report there are a lot of happy Hyundai owners).
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    " Actually, the driver in the Evo pushed the Lambo into a mistake and the Lambo spun out in a turn and the Evo took over."

    Wasn't that a Ferrari?

    "However...you're missing the point here. People pay premium $$$ for the status that comes with a BMW and in their mind, nothing is supposed to touch it in any way."

    Actually with the premium comes a whole lot of engineering you don't see. Without acknowledging the form/function and execution you could say any car is the functional equivalent of any other car. Yes one pays a premium for a Lexus, BMW, Infinity over a Honda, Toyota and Hyundai but there is a reason for it. Leather seats do not a luxury car make.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    There still remains that one thing that only money can buy, something you would want your neighbor to see parked in you driveway.

    If you want to spend 20 or 30 grand more on a car to impress your neighbors, go right ahead.

    Others would rather put that money into their home, kids or investments.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Posts: 352
    BMW has a history of underrating its engines as well as publishing somewhat conservative performance claims unlike the Japanese and Koreans.
    How right you are. July "06 C&D had tests of Ford Shelby 500 and BMW M6. Both rated 500HP, Ford weighed 3896#, Beemer was 3908#. BMW was a half second quicker to 60 and the 1/4 mile with BMW trap speed 9 MPH faster. That's huge.
    Whether it's underrating or fat powerbands or voodoo, BMW sure gets a lot from their engines.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,023
    "My best guess right now, though, is that like 'tjc' I will also be influenced by maybe 4 or 5 mpgs (or more), will disqualify the Genesis 3.8 on that basis, and will re-up into another Avalon. "

    We will have to see what the published FE is when official specs are released. However, 5 MPG less than my Av just may be a deal breaker for me. I do almost no open highway drving and seriously doubt I want FE in the teens again. All this is moot if gas comes down, but I just paid 2.91 for reg up about a dime from a week ago...

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Yeah, I forgot to mention, captain2, I highly doubt it would be 5 mpg or more. Here is why:

    2008 Toyota Avalon EPA rating 19/28 - 268hp
    2008 Hyundai Azera EPA rating 17/26 - 263hp

    That's 2mpg difference, although I've gotten similar mileage during my test drives on both but let's go with EPA stated.

    Keep in mind the 3.8L in the Genesis in Lambda II, and from Hyundai, higher horsepower (check - 290hp) and increased fuel efficiency (we'll find out).

    Regardless, I don't think it will drop 3 add'l or more...
  • Before I start, let me say I believe in buying American. I have always owned American cars and always will. I recently considered buying a Mercedes. After test driving a nice sedan (priced at over $80,000), I headed over to the closest Chysler dealership to check out the much touted 300C. What I discovered was that I could buy the top of the line Heritage Edition loaded with every option possible, for just about $41,000 sticker ($36,000 actual). The 300C has the 340 HP 5.7L MDS HEMI V-8 mated with a 5-speed Mercedes auto-transmission (not available in the Mercedes). It out performs the German car in every category while looking extremely cool doing it. I feel in love with the Inferno Red beauty so much tht i actually bought two of them for less than the price of one Mercedes. They are fabulous and way under rated for some reason. Infortuantely, by the time people realize what an incredible buy the 300C is, it will likely be priced much higher than it is today. Test drive one before you buy anything! ;)
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