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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    that would mean, it's Hyundai's time
    convenient use of mathematics - lets see if 68 Toyota Corolla = bad, 78 Toyota Cor
    olla = better, 88 Toyota Corolla = good -that sounds like about 20 years. I'm not saying that it will take until 2022 for Hyundai to get the Sonata thought of as 'good', only that it is not realistic for the manufacturer to think they are going to change something like that in 6 years or so, that it took the Japanese maybe 20 to do. It should(and likely will) take less time if for no other reason than they have a bunch of good examples out there.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Actually...it's possible for them to get it right in less time by having examples out there. Toyota, Honda & Nissan (Datsun) didn't have that luxury. So it's possible for Hyundai to produce a good quality product in less time, however...getting the public to see it and buy into it...that's the problem. In Hyundai's case, it'll take longer for them to change perception than it will to build quality. That is why i said they should be lookin to be aggressive at getting folks in the door. Another reason why I said the Genesis can help them. Folks come in to see that, they'll see the other offerings as well.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    it'll take longer for them to change perception than it will to build quality
    EXACTLY, just as it did Toyota, Nissan, and Honda (to a lesser degree) some 20 or 30 years ago.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I can see the logic in that thinking, however...what company is spending 80% of it's time & resources to sell 20% of it's product???
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    Azera and soon to be launched Genesis are considered "large" sedans. Note how the exterior specs. compare with the 535I.

    Azera Genesis 535I
    W/B 109.4 115.6 113.7
    Length 192.7 197.0 191.1
    Width 72.8 73.3 72.7
    Height 58.7 58.7 57.8
    Curb Wt. 3,629 3,732 3,660

    Curb weight for Azera is with 3.8, Genesis engine was not listed,

    The point to this is Azera will appear "smaller" to Genesis on the showroom floor, much like the "5" series compared to the "7".
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    it happens all the time - to all kinds of businesses - this 'off-topic' for sure but do a search on 'Pareto' - if you really want to know.
    As this kind of thing would apply to the Azera/Genesis:
    assumming that Hyundai is spending a bulk of its advertising budget on the Genesis - but because that particular car then only represents a small fraction of their sales - what this 'rule' says is discontinue the Genesis. However given the investment that Hyundai has obviously made in the Genesis, a desire to improve the company image etc., it would seem more likely they do the reverse, i.e. kill the Azera. IF they do find buyers for the higher priced Genesis, doesn't it seem logical that Hyundai would want to kill the Azera simply because they make more money selling us the Genesis for several thousand more? I would wager that Toyota makes more money selling me one Avalon for $34k, then it does selling me two Corollas at half that price. Just a thought, and a whole lot of conjecture
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Well...outside of the Superbowl ads...there hasn't been anything else other than the buzz generated by them. Currently...Hyundai has ads out for the Soanta and the Santa Fe...that's about it. So in their reality, they spending about 20% of their time & resources trying to sell 80% of their product! LOL

    Personally...I don't feel a need to kill off the Azera. There's a market for both the Azera and the Genesis. However, time will surely tell.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    RWD sedans are generally less space efficient primarily because of space taken by things like driveshaft humps, rear drivesahft/suspensions - the number I don't see is interior/trunk volumes - it wouldn't surprise me if the Azera isn't bigger than the other two despite being a bit smaller externally. So if I am on that showrroom floor I guess I'm not wanting to sit in one?
    BMW has always done a pretty good job maximizing interior volumes in a RWD layout, but I would be surprised if the Azera isn't larger inside than even a standard 7 series never mind the 5 series, as is an Avalon or 500/Taurus.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,023
    "RWD sedans are generally less space efficient"

    I always find it amazing that my Avalon has much more room inside than a Grand Marquis/Town Car despite being probably 2' shorter.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the CV/GM/TC perhaps the worst examples of 50-60s vintage design - the cars that will actually surprise you IMO are those 5 series BMWs and the like - they are not nearly as small as you might assume they would be interior wise , despite the RWD and some rather 'compact' exterior dimensions etc.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Initially...it was stated that the Azera had more interior space than a 750 (I believe that was the model used).
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    doesn't surprise me - and the Azera is not even the biggest car in this group (in terms of interior volume) that honor shared by the Taurus and Avalon. The Taurus is the ine that 'shames' even the Avalon - if you include the size of that trunk! The point I guess I was making is that you really don't get a handle on how big a car is until you sit in it, the Azera may possibly be bigger than the Genesis in that regard, and lastly I'm not sure you really notice an extra 6" of length even 'side-by-side'..
  • When I read your post I was reminded of the first time I sat in the Avalon. I'm a big boy and unfortunately I don't mean tall, but I was just about ready to buy a Lucerne in Sept. of 06 when my wife suggested we go down the street and look at the car she liked, the Avalon. I was resistant to the idea, after all, it was a Toyota, and how comfortable could a guy my size be in one of those little Japanese cars.. Well son I am here to tell you, the minute I sat in the Avalon I realized immediately that I was much much more comfortable in the Avy than I was in the Lucerne, or the Grand Marquis that I had also test driven.. Long story short, that Avy sits in my garage tonight, not the buick or the Mercury. In addition to the room in the car, I liked the avalon over the Lucerne because I was able to get the horsepower I wanted in a six banger as opposed to haveing to go with the 8 Cyl. Northstar. I did think the ride was "alittle" smoother in the Lucerne, but apples to apples, I felt the Avy won hands down.

    Roland
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,023
    I also looked at the Lucerne and felt the same way about the powertrain options. If you follow this forum, I always say the Lucerne would be a solid #2 in this category if GM would put the 3.6 6speed in. As for the ride, it is a little softer than the Avalon, but I prefer the slightly stiffer ride in the Av because I feel it handles a little crisper (not that its a sports car by any means of course). As for comfort its tough to beat the Avalon, however, I will say that the seats in my '03 Av were a tad bigger than the '06 and even more comfortable.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,023
    "the CV/GM/TC perhaps the worst examples of 50-60s vintage design "

    I have a soft spot for full size Fords, but their time has past! Anyway, you are right about the 5er. I spent time in the rear of one recently and was surprised how roomy it was. I figured it would be worse than a Camry/Altima.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • thats why they dropped H from their grill.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I got quotes for a Lucerne CX with no options - try $25k and change. Compare that with a $20k quote for the Taurus, which is as quick as the V8 Lucerne and offers better mileage than the old 3.8 Lucerne, and the Buick becomes a tough sell.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,023
    I think you could do better now. Buick was advertising $3500 rebate in my area (3K some places) and I bet you can get at least 2500 from the dealer. I think it starts around 27500 - 2500 - 3500 = $21,500 . In all fairness I would think the base Lucerne is a little better equipped than the base Taurus. However, on the powertrain alone you are absolutely correct!

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    $20k quote for the Taurus
    $20k, now that would be a tall order to fill for a car in this group - on that budget. A stripper Taurus, a base Azera, a base Charger, a base Impala - perhaps - the Avalon/Maxima/Lucerne no. The bang for the buck deal IMO is probably the Taurus, but it sure doesn't mean anything good for Taurus resale values, so don''t count on it saving much (if anything) over a shorter (5 year or less) time frame. It's kinda sad that it takes Ford 3 years to finally get some competitive HP in that car and now they have to discount so heavily to sell it. Guess the name change really didn't fool anybody and/or the styling is objectionable to some.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I agree completely...the interior of the Taurus is CAVERNOUS!!! I've sat in an Avalon and to be honest...it's hard to say it has much more room than the Azera. As far as the interior space in the Genesis...they are touting it to be more spacious than an S-Class, see...references do come in handy! ;)

    Heck...we've seen the Max being a longer car than the Avalon and yet, having less interior space. So...exterior dimensions really don't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to the interior space. The other thing that plays a key in all that is how long the wheel-base is. The further out to the corners the wheels are, the more space is left for interior space.
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