Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

1327329331332333

Comments

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    What GM needs is direct injection and electronic valves in their engines. All of them. this would give them an enormous advantage over the competition.

    Imagine the entire top half of the engine gone - no timing chain, no camshafts, no valve assembly, no having to deal with oil as well or a myriad of other problems. Keeping the air/fuel and oil separate in the engine is huge by itself - no chance of problems there. And the head can be made out of essentially un-warpable materials or the engine could be made without a head entirely(no upper gaskets)

    Lighter, cheaper, more reliable, and far better fuel economy. Valves and compression getting poor? It'll adjust the clearances on the fly - and if it's really shot, replace the module and go on your way.

    Not holding my breath, though.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    What GM needs is direct injection and electronic valves in their engines. All of them. this would give them an enormous advantage over the competition

    Funny thing is...GM is using direct injection on the 3.6 in the Outlook/Acadia. Oh...my bad, they were talking about switching to it.

    Actually...what they do have currently is the SIDI...spark ignition direct injection.

    GM Press Release
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    The Genesis (and Azera) have tremendous potential, but Hyundai needs to spend the money to get the cars designed right from the ground up, insure quality and then determine the price of the car.

    I must have missed the memo about how Hyundai didn't spend enough money to put the Genesis from sketch to production; I've also likely missed the memo about its quality and correct pricing - silly me...
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Joe97...you didn't miss any memos, the only quality knock on the Genesis is the suspension. I think the Koreans really don't know how to tune the suspensions of their vehicles for the North American market. What they may like over there in Korea isn't what we look for hear. Oh yeah, and the unfinished trunk lining under the rear deck. :blush:

    To be honest...the suspension has been the only consistent issue with the Genesis, yet...folks that have bought them aren't even complaining so it makes me wonder if the folks that are merely test driving them are saying it to give them something to harp on...I don't really know. When I tested one, the ride was quite compliant, confident and poised over pot holes, man hole covers and other road imperfections. I didn't have a chance to get on the highway with it, but I would imagine cruising on the highway would be a very pleasant experience.

    As far as pricing goes...I really don't know what anyone could say. The car is worth more and because it's a Hyundai, folks want to pay even less for it than what's being asked. Granted, it can be purchased below sticker, but even at $42K...the 4.6 w/tech package is one heck of a steal!!!
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,020
    An advertising agency would like to speak with satisfied Dodge Charger drivers. If you own or regularly drive one of these vehicles, please respond to jwahl@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Friday, October 31st.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • Will say it again. Re: the Genesis, read the October issues of Car & Driver and Automobile magazines.
    Several people on Edmunds and other blogs have mentioned concerns about the ride. The posts here re: the Azera speak for themselves.
    Re; pricing, spend a little more to get it correct and then charge accordingly instead of trying to dramatically undercut the competetion on price.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    No offense Carolinabob...Hyundai has always undercut the competition on price, that has ALWAYS been their niche. Fortuntately with nearly 60K miles on my '06 Azera, I haven't experienced the problems I have read in postings here on Carspace as well as Hyundai-Forums. What Hyundai really needs to do is bring in an American consultant to work with them on the suspention tuning. They take care of that main issue and the rest is a cake walk. As far as pricing goes...they really don't have to address pricing...their cars are priced quite fairly in my opinion. Folks just need to accept the fact that Hyundai has grown up and and a $40K Hyundai exists! ;)
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    So let me be more direct here, obviously I didn't make myself clear earlier :)

    You said, "Hyundai needs to spend the money to get the cars designed right from the ground up"

    Hyundai spent over 530 million dollars to develop the Genesis from the ground up.

    Re; pricing, spend a little more to get it correct and then charge accordingly instead of trying to dramatically undercut the competetion on price.

    If the Genesis price range doesn't make sense, how much were you thinking?

    As for the ride of the Genesis, there are obviously room for improvement, no doubt; nonethless, it is a good one, a very good first attempt. The Genesis has a very balanced ride, think somewhere in between the GS and the 5er. By the way, I disagree with your position the MKS rides much better than the Genesis - to me, the MKS rode a little soft in comparison to the Genesis.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    I just drove a rental 2008 white Chevy Impala LT with about 4300 miles on it for two weeks in New England on vacation. Put about 700 miles on it. Having not driven this generation of Impala before, I was curious about what GM's latest version was. For the record, I drive a 2000 Ford Taurus SES with the DOHC 3.0 V-6, with 75K miles on it. I have not read any of the 6700+ posts here.

    My impressions: On the plus side it was quite quiet, had a smooth ride, shifted and braked well, and had a large nicely shaped trunk with linkage hinges so as to make most of the trunk space useable.

    On the minus side, handling was somewhat remote, and road noise at times seemed higher than my Taurus is, though both were acceptable in my mind.

    What I really did not like were the outside rear view mirrors which were small, oddly triangular shaped, and the white body color housing was very distracting. The center console dash lights reflected in the top of the windshield at night, and the other gage lights behind the steering wheel reflected in the drivers side door window AND in the rear view mirror!

    Also the cupholders were way too far back in the console, and the armrest on the console was also too far back and poorly cushioned.

    The rear seats on this model at least, didn't fold down.

    Front seat comfort was not as good as my Taurus. My rear ached after anything longer than a 1 hour drive.

    The visors were too small and did not block sun in the upper corners.

    I detested the fake burled wood on the dash. It looked cheap.

    Most of these negatives would not be deal breakers for me, except for the poor outside mirrors, the reflections of the dash lights in the glass, the cupholder placement, the center armrest problem and the less than ideal front seat comfort. These items would definitely make me shop elsewhere.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,138
    I had a similar car in Miami several weeks ago and used to own a 2000 Taurus until I got fed up with the constant repairs once it was out of warranty. I thought the Impala road nicer than the Taurus on the highway, but the Taurus was a better driver. You are right that the seat backs are the killer on the Impala. They are terrible after a few hours. Taurus seats in an Impala would make a nice highway car if reliability improved. What's with the current Taurus - all that back seat legroom, but cramped driver's leg room further aggravated by intruding wheel wells?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    What's with the current Taurus - all that back seat legroom, but cramped driver's leg room further aggravated by intruding wheel wells?

    CRAMPED Driver's Legroom? I'm 6'5" (with a short torso, long legs) and find there to be plentiful legroom front and back (I tend to sit with the seat all the way back in every car or full size truck I've driven). The real aggrivating thing is the lack of a telescoping steering wheel, although I think the Impala lacks this also, right?
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    CRAMPED Driver's Legroom

    Every car is different for some people. For example when I drove the Genesis I felt it wasn't as roomy as my '06 Avalon, but the #s would say it is. Just my body type I guess.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • I have a 2008 Sable, and also find the drivers legroom ample. It has power adjustable pedals, and by adjusting them and the seat, the need for a telescoping steering wheel is diminished. Since my wife is shorter than I am, the memory settings come in handy.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I think it has everything to do with how and individual sets the seat up. I'm 6'2" tall and when I tested the Genesis, I had no issues with leg room at all. Even with the seat in the position I needed, it left ample room for the back seat as well.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Well sure, its different person-to-person. I was just surprised because as a 6'5" guy, I'm used to having legroom issues EVERYWHERE but never having headroom problems. Heck, I have an Accord Sedan with a moonroof and can adjust my power seat almost all the way up with no problems. All my height is in my legs, and the Taurus felt plenty roomy up front.

    Don't get me wrong though, you guys know I'm not so hard-headed as to believe where I'm comfortable, others may not be! ;)
  • tonycdtonycd Posts: 223
    "I predict that gas will hit $3 before $8! Once the speculation factor goes away."

    You said it way back in June. Helluva good call, Ron.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I feel you, but at 6'2"...I've NEVER had leg room issues in the driver's seat of any car I've driven (and it's been quite a few). If anything, the only leg room problem has ever been those that ride behind me.

    I also think some of it has to do with perception. If the driver's cockpit seems cramped, then you will feel cramped no matter what. Some automakers do a good job of making the driver's area seem spacious. In today's world with adjustable pedals, tilt and telescoping steering wheels...I don't understand how leg room can be an issue. Not unless someone just has abnormally long legs.

    You are right on one thing...your driving position may not be comfortable to someone else and vice-a-versa.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Some automakers do a good job of making the driver's area seem spacious. In today's world with adjustable pedals, tilt and telescoping steering wheels...I don't understand how leg room can be an issue. Not unless someone just has abnormally long legs.

    Well, if you have a car that doesn't have those features, it CAN be. Even if it does, sometimes, automakers just don't put in a lot of front-seat travel (such as the Honda Fit, just not enough legroom for me up front).

    I drive a 1996 Accord about every-other day. It's a little lacking in actual legroom, but the whole interior is so open (low dashboard, cowl, lots of glass), the car doesn't feel cramped to me at all. It happens to have excellent steering wheel placement for me; it doesn't telescope, but it is a good distance away... unlike our old Odyssey, or vehicles like the old Corolla model, which was the biggest pain in the arms to drive.

    By the way, with an inseam that is very nearly 35", I'd probably qualify for those "abnormally long legs" comments!
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Well my 2000 Taurus has been and continues to be an excellent car both from performance and reliability standpoints. I plan on keeping it for at least 3 or 4 more years. Not that interested in the current Taurus as I don't need that big a car. A Fusion would be just fine, or I might even go down to a compact next time.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    My parents almost went with the Fusion over the summer, as my mom is always looking to save some money where possible, but the salesman pointed out that there was more "bargaining" room on the Taurus, and equipped similarly, the Fusion wouldn't be any cheaper. The fact that the Taurus was more powerful and had better fuel economy sealed the deal.

    That said, the new Fusion is due out soon, and should offer improved power & economy.
Sign In or Register to comment.