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Acura TSX vs. Infiniti G35

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Comments

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I don't think Acura has officially announced the specs yet.

    I still think the 4 cyl TSX with 6-speed MT is the better car (and it's only $29,000).
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "To then turn around and wear blinkers to compare the G with the TSX, I doubt anything useful will come out of this. I will resign on this note."

    Resignation accepted. :P
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    Oh, that was post number 127, and at the time I was referring to the old TSX, see my post today, post # 144 on the V6 TSX

    And just to add to the accolades of the Infiniti G series, JD Powers just released this today, highest ranked initial quality survey. Its an honor to stand next to a Lexus when it comes to quality cos those guys are merciless in that dept. The TSX is so out of its league with the G its not even funny. Believe me, I will be having fun with this thread. :shades:

    Entry premium car:

    -Highest ranked: Lexus IS

    -Runners-up: Cadillac CTS, Infiniti G-Series
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Nobody is saying the G37 isn't a great car. Your neighbors are are green with envy and young girls swoon whenever you drive by. OK?

    The question is - why is it so hard to understand that the TSX is also a terrific car?
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    Oh, I was merely trying to point out that these cars, when compared, the G will come out on top from any angle you wish to take. Which is why I said you are choosing the wrong car to take on, the G is simply a beast and is probably one of the most underrated cars out there. You should check the press coming out of Dubai, Europe, Australia on this car. Granted it has not unsit the 335i from the throne but who could be second (Unfortunately the IS350 has handling issues, otherwise a close contender)

    Yes the TSX is a great car, and yes the G is not the greatest car in the segment at least from a performance perspective, but once you factor everything in, even here at Edmunds they placed it 1st over the 335i, IS350, CTS, C350. Try pitting a TSX against these cars, see what happens.
  • drwilscdrwilsc Posts: 140
    The G does not really need to compete head-to-head with the 335i, since its price is much closer to 328i territory. The G will run figure-8's around the 328i. Thats what sold me on the G, it's such a great car for the money. The value consideration is also why it won the comparison test you mentioned againt the fierce competition in that comparo.

    The CTS in that article was down-graded because of its relatively slow performance (0-60 in mid 6's), which, incidently, is around the same performance as the TSX V6.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Well, you're comparing an apple and a pomegranate and trying to explain why the pomegranate is superior.

    From a personal perspective, I have driven both the G35 and G37 sedan and here are some of my thoughts:

    1. The G35/37 has a powerful drivetrain - no doubt about it. But to my surprise, the G doesn't pull like a freight train like I expected. Torque still feels a little soft at lower RPM's. The BMW twin turbo is far superior in power delivery. The G does a nice job of hiding it's size and weight (it's a big, heavy car), but it definitely isn't as nimble as the smaller TSX.

    2. Clutch take-up was too high and sudden which made moving from a stand-still unnecessarily difficult (especially on uphill inclines). Combine the poor clutch with an overly sensitive throttle tip-in (thanks to drive-by-wire), and the G was even difficult to upshift during normal driving. Pedal placement was also not the best for heel-and-toe downshifting, which is moot in the G because the aforementioned clutch/throttle issues made me loath to try it more than a couple of times. I did like the shifter action - short and precise throws with just the right heft. It was more precise and better feeling than the BMW 3-series, but not as slick as the TSX.

    3. Interior ergonomics. Sorry, I hate the G37 cockpit. This one is much better than the 1st gen G35, but Infiniti is still behind Lexus, Audi, and Acura in designing a cockpit that's intimate, attractive, and functional. I know this is a personal call and everyone has a different opinion here, but to me, the layout and appearance of that recessed center display area is less organic and distracting - it ruins the otherwise smooth lines of the dashboard. The Infiniti's switchgear is also somewhat lacking in quality feel and precision of action as compared to other cars in this class. This is an area where Honda/Acura shines. Overall, the TSX cabin is light and airy, everything falls perfectly into place, and all the controls have a feel of quality and precision.

    4. Exterior looks. I like the looks of the G37 from some angles, but I think it's a little on the boring. I'm afraid it will look dated very quickly like the 1st generation G35 does.

    5. Chassis / driveline refinement is another area where the G37 has improved significantly since the first generation G35, but I think they tipped the pendulum a little too far the other way. Where the old car was noisy and harsh, but had razor sharp reflexes, the new car is a little soft and numb. It does have a good ride now however. BMW also went too soft and heavy with the current generation 3 series - as did Acura. I can only imagine what a soft, understeering pig the TSX will be with a big V6 over the front axle. The old 4cylinder TSX was very light on it's humble little feet with quick turn-in and great chassis response - I really liked the 1st generation TSX.

    Anyway, there you have it - my personal, completely biased opinion of these cars. Personally, I wouldn't choose either one. The G37 isn't fast enough to be thrilling, and it isn't luxurious enough to be coddling - kind of a Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none if you ask me.

    For around $35,000, I'd rather own a Genesis on the luxury side or an Evo X on the sport side.
  • drwilscdrwilsc Posts: 140
    I think the TSX's center stack, much like the current generation Accord's, looks like a sea of tiny black buttons. It may be functional, but it does not look luxurious.

    I agree that the G looks a little plain, but is that really bad? It's hard to read any article, forum, etc. about the TL without many, many complaints about the ugly front end. The TSX's front end has a similar, if toned-down, appearance. Like the dash appearances this is subjective, maybe Acura's styling works for you. I sure have read a lot of complaints about it though and perhaps the plain styling of the Infiniti is not all that bad. The Acura's styling actually is starting to grow on me a little, but I still hesitate to spend 35 grand on a car and have family and friends tell me it's ugly.

    The G's throttle does take some getting used to, but after 2 or 3 weeks it was no longer a major issue.

    I think you hit the nail on the head about it being a jack of all trades and master of none, but again this may be looked at as a good thing. Sure the Evo will outperform it, ever sat in one? It has about as much luxury as a Chevy Chevette. The Genesis is a nice car for sure, but the G will out-accelerate it (even the V8 version by a small margin) and out-corner it.

    The G is a car that will run neck-and-neck with a Mustang GT and offer a fair amount of luxury for mid-30's in price. There just aren't too many other cars out there that can say that.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I agree about the TSX looks. I actually think the 2nd generation TSX was a step down from the 1st generation car (I may be biased, I owned a 2004 TSX for 2 years).

    The old car was simple and elegant, while the new one is needlessly fussy and overstyled (yes, especially the beak).

    Here is the 2004 TSX which I still consider a benchmark for the class in interior ergonomics, comfort, design, and quality ...

    image

    You're right about the excellent qualities of the G and the niche it fills very well between sport and luxury. Truth be told, I've been playing a little Devil's advocate here simply because I don't understand all narrow-minded opinions of the juvenile 0-60 fanboys that worship it. It's really a very poor choice for someone who's looking for a "fast car." It's quick, but it's not fast.
  • ingvaringvar Posts: 205
    The question is - why is it so hard to understand that the TSX is also a terrific car?
    Have you had a chance to drive "terrific car?" What's about torque steer and FWD? Why 5 speed auto?
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    You're right about the excellent qualities of the G and the niche it fills very well between sport and luxury. Truth be told, I've been playing a little Devil's advocate here simply because I don't understand all narrow-minded opinions of the juvenile 0-60 fanboys that worship it. It's really a very poor choice for someone who's looking for a "fast car." It's quick, but it's not fast.

    Glad you came out of the closet on this one, LOL. You seem to be getting your tongue twisted though, on one hand you say the G is a jack of all trades and in the same breath you state some buy the G cos of the 0-60 times only, which is it? and "You're right about the excellent qualities of the G and the niche it fills very well between sport and luxury" that is exactly why we chose it, the 0-60 times is just a bonus:)

    Oh and on a different note, I used to take the 328i for granted but when you realize that with only 230HP, the car will take on the TSX V6, Cadillac CTS, C350, TL with 305HP, I realized why CD makes a big deal of this car. I have to take my hat off to the engineering that went behind the smooth inline 6 in that car. But for the same price, I am very happy with the "jack of all trades".
  • drwilscdrwilsc Posts: 140
    Wow, that 04 TSX's dash IS nice. I for one also prefer the 04-07 Accord, especially the dash, to the current generation.

    I, too, am playing devil's advocate. One reason for my original post (#130) was I was looking for someone to tell me why I should get a TSX V6. (another reason was simply to 'wake up' the forum, since it may make for interesting discussion). My lease on my 08 G35 is over in Sept. 2011. That may be bad timing with regard to catching the G at the tail end of its generation cycle, so I would like to be thinking about other choices. I actually think the TSX V6 is a very interesting car.

    The point about the G's engine being less than refined at high revs is so true, unfortunately. I noticed it immediately the first time I test drove it. It sounded more course than the engine in my previous car, a 2007 Saturn Aura XR. (hey, don't laugh, the General's 3.6 L engine is actually smoother than you might think).
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Have you had a chance to drive "terrific car?" What's about torque steer and FWD? Why 5 speed auto?"

    Yes, I have. I owned a 2004 TSX 6MT.

    I have also driven a 2009 TSX 6MT and liked it, though not as much as the old one.

    FWD is a downside, no doubt about it, but for 90% of drivers buying in this segment, I don't think it matters much (I don't think most drivers can tell the difference). Besides, all new cars, whether Acura, Audi, BMW, or Porsche, are set up to push at the limit. To dial understeer out of any new car, you must spend money in the aftermarket.

    As for torque steer, a well engineered FWD car - especially one with only 200hp, will not have a problem with it. Nobody who has driven the V6 TSX has mentioned torque steer, so I'll assume for now it's a non-issue.

    5 speed. 7-speed, DSC, LMNOP - if it has a slushbox, it's just another Buick as far as I'm concerned.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "on one hand you say the G is a jack of all trades and in the same breath you state some buy the G cos of the 0-60 times only, which is it?"

    It seems to me that an inordinate number of G owners think their car is the shiznit. I can't begin to count the number of G's that have pulled up next to me at a light and wanted to race me. It's a Jack-of-all-trades in that it does many things well (accelerate, corner, ride, features, etc.), but it isn't the best at anything. In it's class, it's not the fastest, it's not the best handling, it's not the most luxurious or refined, and it's not the prettiest.

    "I used to take the 328i for granted but when you realize that with only 230HP, the car will take on the TSX V6, Cadillac CTS, C350, TL with 305HP."

    You are overlooking the real reasons why the 328i can keep up with those other, more powerful cars. It's not the I-6 (which I agree is a fine motor). It's weight (sprung and unsprung), gearing, driveline loss, and torque converters all conspiring to rob these cars of acceleration (and handling). The 305 HP Acura TL-S isn't as quick as the G37 because it has a slushbox and weighs 300 lbs. more. The TSX V6 isn't quicker because of the slushbox and FWD drivetrain (weight transfer at launch lifts the front wheels and limits traction).

    Again, you should be happy with your G, it's a nice car - if you prefer crude drivetrains, cheap materials, numb steering, and vague clutch/throttle response... ;)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "I, too, am playing devil's advocate."

    :)

    "One reason for my original post (#130) was I was looking for someone to tell me why I should get a TSX V6."

    I won't be the one to tell you that. If Buick were to build a small, sporty sedan, it would be the V6 TSX.

    "my previous car, a 2007 Saturn Aura XR. (hey, don't laugh...)"

    I'm not laughing. I think the Aura is actually a pretty nice car (and a good effort from GM). The 3.6L is an outstanding motor, and I like the brown leather interior and cockpit design/layout (nicer than the G :P ).
  • drwilscdrwilsc Posts: 140
    With regard to the Aura, I miss the remote start (not available on the G) and the smoother, if less powerful, engine. The dash is nice as well. The backseat and trunk were larger than the Infiniti's.

    One big advantage for the G, however, is the AWD (mine is a G35X). It virtually eliminates unwanted wheelspin, especially in the rain, and handles better in the snow. I never thought I would care about AWD until I drove this. The 252 hp FWD Saturn often chirped its tires even when I was not trying to drive aggresively. I suppose that may be a potential downside to the TSX - no AWD.
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    It seems to me that an inordinate number of G owners think their car is the shiznit. I can't begin to count the number of G's that have pulled up next to me at a light and wanted to race me. It's a Jack-of-all-trades in that it does many things well (accelerate, corner, ride, features, etc.),

    What do you drive, if its a TSX I hardly believe any G is going to try to race you, its a pure waste of the G drivers time.

    Again, you should be happy with your G, it's a nice car - if you prefer crude drivetrains, cheap materials, numb steering, and vague clutch/throttle response... Thanks for your opinion on this, its always good to know what others think, keeps me in check. :D

    You are overlooking the real reasons why the 328i can keep up with those other, more powerful cars. It's not the I-6 (which I agree is a fine motor). It's weight (sprung and unsprung), gearing, driveline loss, and torque converters all conspiring to rob these cars of acceleration (and handling). The 305 HP Acura TL-S isn't as quick as the G37 because it has a slushbox and weighs 300 lbs. more. The TSX V6 isn't quicker because of the slushbox and FWD drivetrain (weight transfer at launch lifts the front wheels and limits traction).

    And that is exactly why the Acura needs to go back to the drawing board.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "What do you drive"

    A BMW M3.

    "Acura needs to go back to the drawing board."

    And this summarizes why you just don't get it. The TSX is exactly what it's supposed to be. It's not trying to be a G37 or 3-series. Like clothing, people buying cars in this segment have many different priorities for choosing Brand A over Brand B. Some place a high value on acceleration and handling while others look for a certain style, refinement, aesthetics.

    If you think of the G37 as a "poor man's BMW 3-series," then perhaps it would help to think of the TSX as a "rich man's VW Jetta."

    Different target audience, different strengths and weaknesses, different philosophy, but no less compelling a car than the G37.
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    My lease on my 08 is up next year and I will step into the G37. However its not going to be major change, I could have tried to find something else but due to my love for "numb steering, inferior materials, coarse drivetrain" I just cannot find anything right now that tickles my fancy. S4 would have done it if it started at 5k less than where its projected to start. I will just have to suck it up when the new G37s comes out. There is rumors that the G37 will be getting a DI engine most likely for the 2011MY or 2012MY, if its 2011 you will be right in line to get that.

    If you want another car can I suggest:

    Altima, Genesis, Maxima, Camry, they all are FWD cars and I dont think there is anything the TSX offers not available in these cars, unless "brand" is important to you. I was in a Maxima the other day and was impressed by what it has to offer, the interior looks great, comes with a super large moonroof, interior room is abundant, lots of tech (you have the same in the G though), 290HP and most likely if the G gets DI taking it to 350HP, the Maxima in the 2011/2012 MY may get the VQ engines currently available in the G37. This will be at the same time you are changing cars.

    I can assure you are going to get more information once the threads start that compare these cars (Camry, Altima, Genesis, Accord :D etc) to the TSX, the other drivers are going to have a lot to say and it will be fun, if I have time I will check them out just for the fun of it.
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    A BMW M3.

    Makes sense, I would not try as I would get slaughtered, its not worth both my time or your time.

    And this summarizes why you just don't get it. The TSX is exactly what it's supposed to be. It's not trying to be a G37 or 3-series. Like clothing, people buying cars in this segment have many different priorities for choosing Brand A over Brand B. Some place a high value on acceleration and handling while others look for a certain style, refinement, aesthetics.

    Well I do, I think getting a TSX for a premium over Altimas, Camrys or Honda Accord may be considered by some as not worth it unless you are buying into the brand. I do not think I am the only one who will tell you that Acura messed up the current line up. They really do need to regroup. Look at the previous TL, did they really need to kill it like they did in the current MY. All they had to do was make a good thing better, and they did the opposite. See the MT comments on the TSX, lots of people are in the same boat as me.

    If you think of the G37 as a "poor man's BMW 3-series," then perhaps it would help to think of the TSX as a "rich man's VW Jetta."

    LOL, take it easy champ. The G can be priced right up to 45k, same as the 328i. The base price of the 335i is 40k. I dont think we are still living in the age where the 3 series is for rich people, these are not "rich people" prices we are talking about. If that were the case, what would we say of the Ferraris of this world. These are all entry level luxury cars so to say a G is a poor mans 3 series is really .........

    Here is the thing, you try to compare a TSX to a G, take any segment, reliability, handling, tech, etc, it will get slaughtered, it will most likely get slaughtered with the Maxima, Camry and Accord as well. My point still stands, the TSX should not be compared to the G, maybe Camry as its way out if its league here. Like it or not thats just the way it is.

    Put differently, the G is way out of its league with the M3, even the previous gen M3 and you will never see me try to compare these cars.
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