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2007 Acura TL Type S

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Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    don't forget that it is the norm for a non-flagship model to outsell a flagship.

    You are missing the whole point.

    RL - flagship for Acura
    GS - non-flagship for Lexus (flagship is LS)
    M - non-flagship for Infiniti (flagship is Q)

    However, the RL, GS and M are all in the same segment and comparable (as do the 5er and E-class). The only flagship sedan in this segment is the RL and I think it's pitiful that the flagship from Acura is outsold in it's own segment by bunch of non-flagship competitors.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Since you are insistent on staying w/ this subject, let's look at some more "pitiful" flagships:

    Lexus sold 9k units of its flagship.

    Infiniti sold a whopping 342 units of its flagship.

    BMW 7 + Audi 8 combined do not exceed the market leader in the "flagship" segment of Mercedes selling 61k units.

    RL sales suck undoubtedly, but it's not the only flagship whose sales are floundering ;)

    Can we get back to talking about the TL-S now?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Last comment of this topic...

    RL vs. the competitors = flagship vs. nonflagships
    LS, Q, 7er, A8 and S-class = flagship vs flagship

    If you still can't figured out my point...too bad.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    I got your point just fine thanks. My point however is that every other flagship except the S-class is "pitiful" in sales just like the RL regardless of whether it is an apples to apples comparison or not.

    If you can't figure that out- then too bad for you too.

    "Last comment of this topic..."

    WOOHOO :D
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I understand your point. The RL does not sell well.

    What I can't figure is what that has to do with the TL or TL-S? I mean, the last generation RL was even less capable than the current model, but the last TL-S was a huge success.

    FWIW, the MDX has been serving as the "flagship" model in the Acura line-up since 2001. There's no rule stating that the best known or highest priced vehicle in the stable must be a four door sedan.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "FWIW, the MDX has been serving as the "flagship" model in the Acura line-up since 2001."

    Say what? A rebadged Honda Pilot is the flagship of Acura? Come on, you can't be serious. That would be a pitiful commentary on Acura. And I happen to be a happy owner of a 2005 MDX.

    I also believe that the RL is a failure as a "flagship". For whatever reason, Acura thinks they can't go too much over $50k. The RL has always been positioned well below the Infiniti Q and Lexus LS. So our next sedan is likely to be a 550i 6-speed (or equivalent in 3-4+ years) After buying a Honda S2000, TL 6-speed and MDX, Acura has run out of steam to take us to the next level. We don't want a Buick like Lexus ride, nor a funky Infiniti.

    Acura is a good company in general, but a terrible underachiever when it comes to building a true flagship. And even with low to mid $40k's pricing on the RL, the $60k+ Lexus beats the crap out of it in sales. Hell, if they didn't limit production BMW could probably sell as many $90k M5's at full MSRP as Acura sells RL's at invoice.

    But you are right, this has little to do with the TL-S, so I'll shut up.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    While I don't necessarily agree that the (current) MDX is Acura's flagship, I've always thought the Pilot is a rebadged MDX, not the other way around.

    And I've come to the conclusion that the main reason the RL does not sell well is a self-inflicted malady -- the presence of the TL. It is simply difficult to rationalize the $25K + taxes (in Canadian $$) difference between the two for someone walking into an Acura showroom. But if I were a luxury car buyer, and comparing across brands, the RL would be an attractive option compared to the forgetable Infiniti Q, and desireable but expensive $100K+ (again in Canadian $$) Lexus LS, especially in view of the Canadian weather-friendly SH-AWD in the RL.
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    I vote we move the RL argument to the RL forum and get this back on the TL Type-S track. ;)
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    On that note, carconnection.com gave a pretty good review for the TL-S; all except for the FWD platform. The author of the article states that Honda believes 40% of the projected sales for this year (TL's) will be Type-S models. You guys think it will sell that well?
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    After the first few months, once any hype fades, dealers will be selling well below MSRP. With that in mind, yes, I think 25-30% is doable.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "....40% of the projected sales for this year (TL's) will be Type-S models. You guys think it will sell that well?"

    No. I believe fewer than 10% of current TL sales are 6-speeds. If the TL-S is going after the "enthusiast" buyer, at a price closer to $40k, I doubt they will get much more than that percentage. Yes, I know, there are bound to be some bipolar buyers who decide get a TL-S, paying $5k extra for extra horsepower on a FWD platform, and then equip it with a slushbox automatic. But as long as Prozac is available, I don't think those buyers will take the sales past 15-20%.

    And from what I am reading regarding the new BMW 335i, I think the TL-S is inching into dangerously competitive territory. If one can justify spending an extra $5-6k for a few more horsepower to go from the TL to TL-S, I would be tempted to dig a little deeper in the sofa cushions for another $5k+ and get a seriously impressive sport sedan or coupe.

    Still love my 2004 TL 6-speed, but it was a $32k balance of perfomance, luxury and reliability that made great economic sense. It wasn't trying to be more of a sports sedan than a FWD chassis should. The new TLS is, and I think most enthusiast buyers are smart enough to figure that out.
  • So I own an Audi and yes I love the car, but lets face it most people I know hate the dealers and the repairs along with the Audi/VW everylittle thing breaks gets you just under your skin and pocket book. I took a friend out to look at a bunch of cars, c230, IS250 and the TL, she ended up with the TL

    I like the car so much I now want to buy one, EXCEPT NO AWD. I love my AWD, the way it drives and handles and so on, SO if Acura wants to make an S type, I say do it, but add the AWD option, then I would pay the 40k or less hopefully for it :) Just adding more horse power and a rear cam and a few other minor toys doesn't add up to the extra cost. This owuld then really put the car in the ball park with Audi, Lexus and BMW and I wouldn't have to worry about my airbags lights turning on every few years for bad parts.

    Dil
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Very true...

    I think Acura would put the SH-AWD on the next TL in 08' as an 09' model but don't think it's happening during the MMC though. Without the AWD IMO Acura would have a hard time to convince buyers (most of them would be enthusiasts) to spend an extra 5K on 40+ HP (on a FWD platform), carbon fiber trim, M-wanna-be quad-pipes and those odd looking rims.

    I predict the TL-S will consist about 15 to 20 percent of the total TL sale. I am more optimistic than habitat1 because I think there are enough die-hard Acura fans out there would trade in their existing TL just for the quad-pipes and 40 extra horses.
  • I am not one, currently I own the 2003 TLS(love/hate relationship) and it is sporting a "for sale" in the rear window.

    The new TLS is not even on my long list, I am tempted to wait on the new 09 TL but the new Lexus GS350 and Mercedes E350 is knocking hard on my pockets.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Billy,

    The 530i 6-speed is on that list too, I hope. I drove one the other day and, compared to my marketing director's E320 CDI, the handling, steering and responsiveness of the 530i is very impressive. It would be a car high on my list, stupid i-drive notwithstanding.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    A colleague of mine at work recently purchased a 07 550i 6spd and man- talk about pure driving pleasure. That car rocks!

    When I am all "grown up" I will be taking a closer look at the 550i. Till then, I am content tooling around in my TL ;)
  • If I was living in Florida or California-yes, but unfortunatley I live in a snowbelt region- so Rear wheelers are not on my list.My next purchase is going to be a fast AWD sedan, I know I am giving up some performance and taking on more weight but I really don't care-I want AWD.
    E350
    GS350
    A6 3.2/4.2
    G35X ?????
    RL
    530XI
    I will post as soon as I foot the bill-maybe next summer or earlier, no rush.
  • I am at a crossroad. I am in the market for a new car and have always been fond of the TL-6spd. I'm not too sure if I really like the TL-S. Granted I do like the changes, except for the wheels, lip spoiler interior lighting, (still on the fence about the red color) and the fact that it is the only way I can get the manual.

    I agree with others that the TL-S will not sell many units, especially with the AT. Maybe I'll hold off until spring to see what happens.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Is an 06 w/ manual tranny not an option for you?
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    TL 5AT 33,625
    TL w/ Navigation 5AT 36,125
    TL Type-S 6MT 38,125
    5AT 38,125
    TL Type-S w/ Summer Tires 6MT 38,325
    5AT 38,325

    This info was found on hondanews.com.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Does TL-S only come with Navi?

    If that's the case, 38K+ for a navi TL-S is not too bad. Not great (because of the FWD platform) but definitely not bad at well.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Yes, Navi is std on the TL-S.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    What colors do the 07 TL come in?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hey Nick, welcome back! :)
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    If Acura decides to go AWD for the TL in 09 IMHO they would not match it with a manual tranny.
    Assuming this is true, the 07 ( & 08 TL-S) might be the last model TL's Acura would be offering with the manual tranny???
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I doubt Acura will drop the manual tranny since alot of people opted for it in the past. ;)

    Rocky
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    "I doubt Acura will drop the manual tranny since alot of people opted for it in the past."

    If that's the case, Honda/Acura better hop into bed with Subaru now and figure out how they're going to marry thier 300+ HP motors with AWD systems and Munual Trans.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I doubt they need Subaru's expertise to accomplish that task. Subaru has enough problems of their own to worry about. ;)

    Rocky
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    just quickly thinking..... who else has a 300hp AWD model with a stick shift?

    Off the top of my head, and without researching right now, I can't think of any...
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,115
    Audi

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