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Hyundai wants Jaguar. Good idea?

scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
edited March 6 in Hyundai
The Guardian (London) is reporting that Hyundai wants to buy Jaguar.

Hyundai sees Jaguar as a quick way to enter the premium vehicle market. Ford is exploring the sale of Jaguar and Hyundai has the money for a deal.

"Jaguar...owned by Hyundai of Korea? The...seismic shift in the British carmaking landscape could be just around the corner"

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1837984,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=- - - 24
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Comments

  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    ...bad for Jaguar. I don't think Hyundai would steer Jaguar correctly. Style is Jaguar's defining trait (or at least should be) and I don't see anything exciting style-wise coming from Korea. They're more about value and features for the dollar.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,320
    "JAGDAI" How prophetic? :P
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Jaguars do not share any componentry with the rest of Ford, meaning you have to recover all r&d costs from sales of Jaguar.

    The new aluminum frame Jaguars are as good as they have ever been. But somewhere along the way, the brand has lost all of its afficianados.

    Hyundai ownership is not going to change that.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    How much worse could it be?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,173
    Isn't the DEW98 platform sourced from Ford? It was my understanding that it is what underpinned the S-type and was lengthed and stiffened for the XJ...
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Yes, and the X-type shared with the Euro Focus.

    My understanding is both are on the way out, and both played a big part in bringing Jaguar's esteem down further than it had been.

    The large sedans, coupe and convertible that truly mean Jaguar to the world share nothing with the rest of Ford.

    Ford did a great job with these cars. But they cannot amortize that work anywhere else.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,173
    Good for Ford in a financial sense, but I would still rather see Ford stick it out and rebuild the brand like they are (very slowly) doing with LR. I mean, look at Lincoln! It is an empty shell of its former self and IMO needs WAY more help than Jag. Lincoln has two products, the Navigator (IMO superior to the Escalade in ways) and the Zephyr, a rebadged but respectable Fusion knockoff (But still a Fusion). The Mark X is no less of a failure than the Blackwood and the Town car is going on 10 years old and resides in the depreciating hell that is fleet sales...

    At least Jag has a smidge of identity. Take away the X-type and Jag still maintains a sense of style and flair not found in your typical Ford vehicle. I don't know, maybe I am completely wrong in this but I think if anything, Ford needs to drop Lincoln and even Mercury, pool that money to come up with a killer RWD/AWD ONLY lineup that rivals the best from Germany and heres an idea :surprise: :

    Merge the Jag dealers with Land Rover and voila you've got one hell of a lineup! I think it would be much more successful than what is happening at Merc/Lin at the moment.

    On a side note, LLN was reporting a possible inclusion of Land Rover to sweeten the deal for the potential buyer of Jaguar. Not sure if that was for real though.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    ...shared a platform with Ford's Mondeo (Ford's Accord-size car in Europe). The European Focus shares a platform with the Mazda3 and Volvo V40 and S40.

    A fair amount of engineering expertise and components has been shared among Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston-Martin, from what I've read.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    The new aluminum frame Jaguars are as good as they have ever been. But somewhere....the brand lost its afficianados

    That is so true. The new cars are great: Jaguar XJ sedans and the XK lines still have the premium image.

    Is there only so much room in the premium field? Jag is very English and offers a real alternative.

    Hyundai can't do worse with Jaguar than Ford. Asian companies have a lot of respect for tradition and heritage which may help.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    A fair amount of engineering expertise and components has been shared among Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston-Martin, from what I've read.

    Could well be. But none of them are making a dime. Porsche and BMW almost overnight devasted LR's hold on the luxe SUV market.

    Aston's are even cooler than the new Jaguars. But what does it matter, when you only sell 4 or 5 (joking) a year?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The Koreans getting a hold of Jaguar could go either way. If Hyundai give Jaguar the money it needs to build up a proper product range, but otherwise stands back, then Hyundai ownership would be great. However if Hyundai starts trying to change what a Jaguar is by doing a GM/Saab type of deal then forget about it, I'd rather see Jaguar just shutdown first.

    Jaguar has made a series of mistakes that have cost them dearly. The next XJ is a good car, but it looks too much like the old one. They're supposed to be fixing that for 2009. The new XK is for the most part done right, but it can't save the company.

    Like some have stated earlier all Jaguar needs is a little more investment and time under Ford (well a healthy Ford). All Jaguar needs a new rwd platform that can be shortened or lengthened depending on the model in question. Such a platform could underpin the next X-Type, S-Type and that F-Type sports car concept they showed a few years back. Take the new Volvo I6 and tune it for more hp and lastly give the aged (and not underpowered) AJ V8 a complete re-work and Jaguar's problems would be solved. The cost of all of this you ask? About 2-3 billion bucks that Ford doesn't have right now.

    Then there is something else to think about, the stigma of being owned by "Hyundai". It is one thing to be owned by Ford, but Hyundai? Already the uninformed say that Jaguars are nothing but re-badged Fords so you can imagine what will be said if Hyundai buys Jaguar.

    I think Ford should sell off Jaguar and Land Rover because Land Rover faces an extremely uphill battle selling nothing but SUVs and Jaguar is dying anway so I say chuck them both. Keep Volvo, they make money and the safety engineering is priceless, and Aston-Martin is so small, but gorgeous enough to survive due to their clients being rich enough not to care about "gasoline prices".

    I have to admit though I like the idea of a Jaguar/Land Rover/Aston-Martin alliance and the sharing of showrooms wherever possible, but with all that British luxury Ford really needs to question the need for Lincoln, another dying brand.

    Ford had gotten itself into the same situation as GM, too big, too many model lines to cover and not enough money to do it.

    M
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Good post, Merc1.

    Agree pretty much with your thoughts on Jaguar. I do worry whether any level of investment will bring it back, but tend to agree the tradition and fundamentals are there for someone with the money to spend.

    Also agree on Ford/Volvo. Selling Volvo now would just about kill Ford. Ford has a chance to make the Volvo alliance the standard for these sort of mergers. It needs to get rid of the distractions from Jag/Rover/Aston and concentrate on its bread and butter.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    I am in agreement with most of what you and Logic say. The high end auto market would be the better with a strong Jaguar. Jaguar fills a unique niche, offering interiors and styling that reflect a British heritage at a price far below Rolls, Bentley and A-M.

    IMO the Jaguar name still evokes a very positive image. With the proper investment and promotion it could revive to be a force in the premium car field.

    Hyundai has the money to do the job. I hope Hyundai has (or will hire) people who understand what the Jaguar name represents. It would be sad if Hyundai took the Jaguar name and ran off on a tangent that spoiled the brand image.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    about the future direction of Jaguar this week at:

    http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Keep me up to date all. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Thanks.

    The way I see it all the components to "fix" Jaguar are there except for that state of the art, but inexpensive rwd platform needed to underpin the X,S and F-Types. The new I6 from Volvo surely can be re-worked to get another 40hp and the AJ V8 can be shipped out to any number of engine specialist Ford does business with to get it into the 360hp+ neighborhood with various MB, BMW and Lexus V8s.

    Imagine a new true-rwd X-Type with a real honest to goodness I6! Ditto for a F-Type roadster. Jaguar would all of sudden be back in business in a big way, IMO.

    M
  • Recently Ford announced that they don't have plans to sell Jaguar or Land Rover, they said that this rumor never were more than that, a rumor.

    Here is the full thing, found this on a Canadian car site:

    A report from the Sunday Times Newspaper in London suggested that Ford Motor Company was planning to divest itself of Land Rover and Jaguar divisions in the UK as a part of its shake-up of British brands.

    According to the Sunday Times, the company planned to package the two
    brands together and sell a majority stake to a financial investor. The decision was reportedly led by senior management at the company, headed by Bill Ford. The possibility was also mentioned of retaining Jaguar and focusing on exclusive luxury sports cars and limited production.

    The Times reported that Bill Ford had sent a memo indicating that adviser Kenneth Leet would look into strategic options for the company. Leet's background in mergers and acquisitions led some to believe that disposal would be a more likely course of action.

    Replying to the news, Ford announced recently that it has no plans to sell their stake in Jaguar and Land rover and that the rumors were unfounded. Ford has owned Jaguar since 1989 and is presently considering all options for the brand.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,120
    Wouldn't an "X-type" that was nothing more than an Elantra underneath be just as bad as one based on a Mondeo? Great article, shame about both the F-Type and Continental concepts. I would've really loved a modern classic Continental. Of course the guys at Ford were wimps and we didn't get either.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    The Asian companies are better than European or American companies at making cars on the same platform appear very different.

    Look at what Lexus has done using Toyota platforms. Lexus customers do not have the impression they are buying an 'fancy Toyota': many have no idea Lexus cars share anything with Toyota. Acura and Infiniti have been able to do the same using basic Honda and Nissan platforms.

    Upline (e.g. Lexus) cars may cost 15% more to build but sell for 40% more. Plataform sharing is a very profitable deal.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I think it's a good idea for Ford to sell it rather than let it rot like they have. I've always liked the Jaguar brand even though the ones I'd like to own have been priced out of my league. Like you said the wimps at Ford, didn't build those nice concepts. I think Hyundai, can improve the brand because of the money they have. However if they start building Jags in Korea, they will destroy that Old English feel that many folks love about Jaguar. If I was rich enough I'd own me a XJR "Super ?" -The new one that has those chrome like fenders behind the front wheel-well ;) Man that vehicle looks very cool. I also love those wood tabels and dual headrest TV's in the back. :blush:

    Rocky
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