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Scion xB Windshield cracks

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  • This is the firm that successfully negotiated a settlement with Honda. With enough input to them from Scion owners it is possible that we may also have a shot at fair and reasonable compensation.

    http://www.fazmiclaw.com/classactions.html
  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    I just wanted to update everyone what has been going on with my xB and the windshield. Basically the dealership blew me off about the whole issue. Scion Customer Experience was worthless and mailed all of my windshield replacement invoices, 8 windshields in 6 months, to their Legal team. I wasn’t going to wait around to hear what they said so I contacted an attorney to get the lemon law case started.

    I had a LOT of documentation that I provided to my lawyer along with audio recordings of Scion and Toyota representatives saying that the stress crack issue is a problem, but one they are not officially recognizing. This was just a few audio clips out of a dozen gems I have collected about this issue. All my attorney did was send a letter with my intent to take them to court over the issue and they caved. He didn’t even have to file a complaint.

    What happened? Toyota repurchased my car. It took about 20 days for them to line up all the paperwork on their end. If anyone has questions please feel free to email me. lavarious@lavarious.com
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    So Toyota repurchased the whole car rather than pay for all the windshields?
    As if the particular car itself was a lemon. This is more expedient and cheaper than admiting that all the cars have the inherent problem, and agreeing to replace any and all windshields that crack.
    It seems to indicate that Honda Element settlement approach will not go anywhere for our out-of-production xBs, and that people should collect windshield crack documentation in anticipation of when their crack may happen, so they have something to give their lawyer for a letter, in case the dealer does not agree to replace the windshield.
  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    Correct. In my opinion, and what has happened with my case, I believe that Toyota does indeed know about the problem but act as if they do not. They are weighing which will be more expensive:

    A) Act like nothing is wrong and repurchase the cars of a few people who actually hire an attorney to take them to court.

    or

    B) Acknowledge there is a design defect in the vehicle and either replace/refund everyone for their windshields or have a class action suit to pay out to.

    They could care less about their customers; they are more concerned about their bottom line. The 2008 xB is completely redesigned in terms of its windshield. It is 4" shorter and has a longer grade to help with deflection. I have a Scion rep recorded telling me they did this because of the windshield issue. I have all sorts of interesting audio clips and documentation. I will be launching a website shortly to show everyone exactly what I did to win my case, what I used to collect evidence, and who my attorney was in case you'd like some advice from him as well.

    Scion/Toyota could have easily just taken care of this straight away, but instead they played games and pissed me off. I want to make sure those of you who are serious about this and want to hire an attorney have the evidence you need to win your case. I believe that if you use my attorney, or possibly one of his contacts in your local state, you can use the evidence I have already collected against them on this issue.

    What do I get out of it? Satisfaction. That is all. My website will be completely free and used as an informational source. I know what a headache it was for me to go through this entire deal and how much stress I was under, so I want to help out fellow drivers who have done nothing wrong other than purchase a car that is obviously flawed.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    FWIW, windshields on practically all vehicles today are part of the structural integrity of the body design, and are designed to be under stress. Lose integrity of the windshield, and you lose structural integrity of the roof system.

    The primary reason for the xB windshield cracks, etc. is the more vertical "stance" of its design. And, the probability of the tempering level of the safety glass.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    It is a big hunk of glass in a nearly vertical position. So any rocks or other road debris that hit it are much more likely to cause a chip, crack, or break. Most other modern cars have a ton more slope on the glass for aerodynamic (and style) reasons and the same hit would be a lot less likely to result in damage. Is this a design flaw or just the style of the xB? For the problems caused just by road debris, I would vote for style. A penalty you have to pay for having the box - you may be more prone to glass damage than on other cars.

    But it seems that some folks either drive in the worst conditions constantly, have really rotten luck, or do have some flex or weakness in their xBs that cause them go through many, many windshields. I guess it could be that the OEM FACTORY glass works best at handling the stress and strain of the design, but once this breaks (maybe from road junk?) the aftermarket or OEM dealer replacement glass just can't hack it and breaks for both road junk and from stress and strain? I would be for cost reasons, the majority of folks have gone aftermarket for the glass and not even tried another OEM replacement. Even if they did, is the dealer installed glass the same as the factory glass?

    There are plenty of xBs on the road with the original glass in them, so if it is a "design flaw" it does not affect that many of the cars. Maybe the problem comes in after you have had to replace the glass for any reason, then your box becomes a glass eater?

    Just wondering.

    Dennis
  • caliberchiccaliberchic Posts: 402
    Congrats, and thank you for taking the time to organize a site of that nature. I am sure it will be helpful to future xB owners.
  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    My xB had tons of OEM glass put into it and it cracked just the same. This wasn't caused by road debris or impacts; it was caused from sitting in the sun and the frame flexing. How do I know that caused the crack? I have spoken with several Toyota/Scion service people who have told me they have been standing next to the cars when it happens. Want to know the real kicker? I have it all recorded on audio.

    I have used around 3 different makes of glass in the car and none of them would stop the cracking. I got it replaced through a 3rd party vendor because my dealership refused to replace the glass in it because they claimed it was caused by impacts, which it was not. It cracked the 2nd day I had it. They actually told me to use my insurance and a 3rd party vendor.

    To give you an example of the cracking: I got into my car on a Monday, after the glass had been replaced on the following Friday, the car sat all weekend and was never moved. I got into the car and there is a crack in it running from center about 6 inches, taking a 90 degree turn heading towards the passengers side about 14 inches. We are talking like a 20 inch crack caused by nothing. Sure, I had impacts almost on a bi-weekly basis causing chips, pits, cracks, and stars, but these were always after the stress crack appeared. I finally gave up replacing the glass and decided I would just drive it until I could no longer see out of the windshield. Luckily I no longer own the car, but I am sure some sad sap is going to go to that dealership, purchase it, and have a big headache on his/her hands.
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    My 1991 Mazda truck has a vertical windshield like the xB, which is why I got the xB -- ease of entry. The truck is on its third windshield in 150,000 miles, but only because large impacts did serious immediate damage. The windshields accumulate many audible small pebble strikes which cause numerous tiny pits but no cracking.

    My 2006 xB windshield has not cracked in 12,000 miles only because I don't drive where it is likely to be hit by a pebble to make a pit, and the car is parked all day in a garage out of the sun.

    If I was unable to protect my xB in these ways, and if/when I started replacing windshields, I would get another car.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    rocks flying off of truck and car tires here in SE Arizona than my state of birth, Washington state. In Washington state it seemed like I got a flying rock pitting my windshield every month. One time I was driving my '01 Kia Sportage 4X4 south on I-5 coming out of Mount Vernon towards Everett/Seattle.

    I was going my normal 60-70mph in the Sportage. Suddenly some hick in a logging truck goes flying by me in the fast lane(I was in the middle lane). He was really accelerating to storm up a large and long hill just south of Mt.Vernon.

    Pock! A good-sized rock, probably off of one of the logs on his truck, or his tires kicked it up, came flying into and off of my windshield. It was a bad ping-ding, one that started to spread soon after impact.

    I notice here in Arizona that there are no flying rocks or even pebbles. Missouri had some but not like Washington and South Dakota also had very few. Driving in Washington state requires protective equipment for your rig. No kidding.

    I am not kidding but I have not had a single pebble or rock(or a bone...that's right...once again, going south on I-5 in Everett, WA, north of Seattle, I was driving to work one morning and a loud SMACK bonks my windshield. An dork in a pickup truck with a dog in the back let loose somehow of a bone...talking cattle bones here. It bounced up high on the freeway and back in to the air again and found a nice place on my rig's windshield to bounce off of. Another crack that needed professional repair. I'm glad to be out of that state for more reasons than rocks, pebbles and bones)in Arizona bounce into and off of my windshield.

    I should just drop it(pardon any pun)and hope that I don't find any window-pockers down here. I do feel bad for those that are having problems with their Scion windshields. A big boy company like Toyota/Scion should be stepping up to the plate and compensating you. Sounds like a bad design idea that's already out and they can't just pull the plug on the vehicle because it's out and sold already.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    The site is up and ready for your review:

    MyScionSucks.com
  • Hello,
    Your web site is excellent. My xB has not yet cracked its windshield, but it's just a matter of time. Thanks for all of the time you have spent accomplishing this enormous feat.
    David
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    Incredible, magnificent. Congratulations and thank you! I posted it on ScionLife.com
  • Updating post #79 re: our windshield crack that was disturbingly similar to many others on this site. No impact origin, starts behind the rearview mirror & curves at a nearly 90 deg. angle.

    On 3/24 we had the vehicle inspected by two people at the service dept. & they seemed to agree that there was no impact. Told us that they would talk to the "toyota gods" and get back to us on whether they would replace. A few days later, they called to tell us they had ordered a new windshield for us. Hurrah, we thought.

    We waited 5 weeks for the windshield to arrive. When my husband brought the car in on 4/28, it was promptly driven out of his sight. When he caught up to it, two service staff were "penning" it aggressively and came quickly to the conclusion that there was a rock chip at the top of the crack. No visible chip of course, but staff assures him that you can "feel it" with the pen. Of course we find this terribly suspicious, since 1) we never saw an impact cause. and 2) Neither did the first two people who inspected it.

    On May 1, emailed the the customer service manager at Beaverton Scion, attaching a copy of all the relevant forum posts from this site. It's May 4 and still no response. Have emailed again & am going to follow up with phone call.

    So far, not good though.
  • kosalkosal Posts: 1
    I window cracked overnight like what many have described.

    So I went to two Toyota/Scion Dealer in orange county, CA today and got treated like #### to say the least.

    First said right away, that’s not covered; took him two seconds. Now mind you that, we were walking to the car at this point.

    Second guy came and took his fingers and ran it across the crack and said that he didn’t know. So I mentioned this web page and things got a little more serious. The second guy called the manager who then came out with the pen.

    Now here is when I start to get really upset.

    I am not a physicists, but when a 200lb guy apply pressure through an instrument the size of the tip of a pen, things will crack. He pushed the pen so hard that you can hear the squeak on the glass. (I have before and after picture if anyone is interested. ) And you know what he told me? "...this pen is as scientific and precise and it gets as far as Toyota is concerned...." Even with the naked eye you see that the glass is uneven. He ran the pen up and down the crack and then side to side.

    My question is, which way are they suppose to run the pen?
    A: Perpendicularly across the crack ?
    B: Along the surface following the crack?

    If he ran the pen hard enough following the crack, wouldn’t this cause a wedge that would get worst when the pen is then ran the other say?

    What got me mad was he told me to come back and wait from 7am to 8pm for a SPMS person to inspect it....

    to be continued.
  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    Answer to your question:

    B. They are supposed to run the pen along the surface of the crack, not applying much pressure, to see if they can "feel" a nick in the glass where the impact occured. You could basically throw some chicken blood on the windshield and throw some bones on the ground enacting a VooDoo ceremony because that is about a accurate as their "pen test".

    Visit this site and it will explain all you need to know about your issue:

    www.myscionsucks.com
  • bubba29bubba29 Posts: 1
    I have had my 2006 xB since November '05.
    I have 24000 (New Jersey) miles.
    No Cracks or Chips in the windshield, and no other problems of any kind with my xB.
  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    I am happy you haven’t had any problems. They are a nightmare.
  • stefooshstefoosh Posts: 2
    My husband was using my XB one day and when he came home he said he thinks a rock had hit the windshield and made a big crack. He didn't hear anything, but what else would he think? So I was at a red light the other day and their was another XB next to me and I looked (cause I like to see what kind of other people drive the car) and they too had a big ol crack in their windshield...suspicious I am now. So I come on here to find that it is a BIG problem and I will not back down easily. I am so happy I read this before taking it to the next step.
  • I have 15,000 miles on my 12 month old xB. I LOVE this car. I always keep it garaged, both at home and at work. I am amazed at the mileage and the room. I am a bass player and it is the perfect gigging vehicle. I am rabid about the thing.

    Except...

    Sunday I step in the car in my garage and halfway up the passenger side post is a crack that goes in a few inches and then straight up a few more. No impact, no nothing. I thought it was a fluke but decided to google it.

    That quickly led me here. And now I am very concerned. I wonder if this would have taken so long had I not garaged the vehicle. Heck, the ambient temperature was in the low seventies the whole time.

    What a shame. I am thinking of just leaving it cracked to avoid the hassle of replacing it over and over. I bought the vehicle for utility anyway, and the only option I got was the floor mats. I hit a pedestrian (totally his fault) after owning it two weeks and the dent from his head is still in the hood just above the headlight as a warning to other pedestrians. IOW, I am willing to put up with minor cosmetic issues.

    It's really a shame. The new xB's just don't compete with the same market as the old ones. They are too long, too heavy and get significantly worse gas mileage.

    I guess nothing's perfect. Still, it's a bummer.
  • There is a reason windshields are made differently than reare and side windows. And this reason is based on normal driving impact resistance as well as resistance to cracking.

    If a vehicle - ANY vehicle - has a large enough expanse of glass for a windshield, it requires, at the very least, thicker glass than other vehicles. If windshields continue to get cracks with no object impacts, it means the windshild is the victim of a design defect.

    It is really that simple.

    If the replacement windshields are identical to the original, the problem has not been solved. It is worse than a band-aid, because the cut gets no better. You just keep replacing band-aids ad-infinitum until the car ends it's useful life from use and wear.

    That is not acceptable.

    Reminds me of the old Diesel GM cars...
  • Mines almost a year old. I live in a fairly mild climate (Seattle) and garage the car both at work and at home.

    That said, If you look at my posts above this one you will see it eventually hit me too.

    I have found that most cars have a "unique" problem to one degree or another, but some are really bad. I bought a brand new 1980 Buick Skylark and it was such a lemon, I sold it a year later. I then started a new job a year later and one of my workmates had a 1980 Skylark parked in a garage pending a lawsuit. He gave me a one page, two column list of problems the car had. Mine had almost every single problem on the list. Many were safety issues.

    The old GM X-Body really was a true lemon law nightmare.

    Meanwhile, remember that there are not all that many xB's on the road. And not all that many owners know to go to sites like this. But if you want to know if this is common, just check out the windshields of xB's in parking lots, etc. Talk to the owners of cars with good windshields and see if they have ever had to replace them.

    Based on what I have seen regarding other cars, this seems to be a pretty severe epidemic, relatively speaking.

    I never would have thought to google "scion xb and windshield crack" before I bought it. I've owned 28 cars in my life and I have never come across such a thing as this.

    If I had come across this site, I would be driving something else right now...
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Actually, most side window glass is not multi-layer safety glass as it is not required by law. Only a few top-of-the-line cars (maybe Lexus or MB) have laminated safety glass in the side windows.

    That is the reason it is not as thick and windshield glass.

    Dennis
  • That is ONE reason, yes. But remember, ALL auto windows used to be laminate. It just isn't necessary on the sides.

    My main point, however, was that windshields need to be designed to successfully do what they are supposed to do. That is why the windshield on an armored car, or a 747 is different from one on a Volvo.

    But if a particular style of car keeps cracking windows from normal driving stress (no impacts), it needs to be either thickened or otherwise redesigned.

    Meanwhile, I just came across another thread where a guy bought two of the NEW xB's and both of them ended up with stress cracks within a few weeks.

    This is a very bad thing. It is really unacceptable.
  • I have a 2006 Scion XB. My windshield has cracked at the edge twice now. I bought the car brand new. I sincerely believe the reason is a design flaw with the model. I would like to approach Toyota with a group of Scion XB owners that have had similar problems with their vehicles.
    The windshield cracked from a small rock the first time, and the 2nd time I don't even remember anything hitting it.

    I have contacted Toyota corp. and they have lodged my complaint(s)but are not owning up to the fact that there might be a flaw in the inherent design of the XB.

    Please let me know if you would be willing to step forward to Toyota.

    Thanks.
    Teddi2
  • yep, I just sent a comment before I read your. This has happened to me twice and I have had the vehicle since it was new. I am very upset also. Did you contact Toyota?
    If I hear from enough owners I think we should approach Toyota to install a better windshield and better moulding around it.
  • Why are you complaining to each other? You people need to complain, not to Toyota/Scion or the dealer but to the U.S Federal Government. Within the federal government is National Highway Transportation Safety Administration/ Office of Defects Investigation (NHTSA/ODI). These people conduct investigations into unusual, repetitive automotive defects and failures, like cracking windshields. NHTSA/ODI also issues the recalls which force the manufacturers to remedy the situation. I just searched the NHTSA's data base for complaints and recalls on the Scion xB and no one complained to the authority that has enough power to get you a new windshield...free.

    Here is the NHTSA/ODI url: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/index.cfm

    Complain to the people who can make a difference. It's your government, use it.

    The WheelMan
  • follow the above poster's advice if your Scion xB's windshield has suddenly developed a crackin' Jones. Really, the post makes a lot of sense.

    We had a local Postmaster who wouldn't make us keys for our mailbox right after we moved in to the little town we live in. Every day one of us would go in to the Postal Department and ask for our mailkey to open our mailbox and get the mail that is our right as U.S.citizens to receive. They would say "Oh, the lady that makes those keys isn't in" or "she hasn't had time to make those keys yet, please hang on for a while longer." Right.

    We looked in the phone book for a Federal watchdog group for Postal Department employees and managers. We found the phone number of an organization that does just that and called it to complain.

    Guess what happened? The next morning, around 9:15AM (early in the Post Office day) the Postal Supervisor for the Post Office in our little desert town drove the keys over to our rental house and gave my wife the keys to our new mailbox. My was she polite, too!

    That group got results within about 6 working hours of one business day. You might want to follow the above poster's advice and see if it doesn't work for ya.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • Thank You soooooo much Wheel Man, I'm on it! Come on guys, I've already been to the site but have to find my purchase paperwork, there's also a spot where it says OEM and you have to answer yes or no....I think it means Original Equipment, but I'm not positive.
  • OEM Original Equipment Manufacturer Go get'em.
    David
This discussion has been closed.