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Scion xB Windshield cracks

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Comments

  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    I am curious what the verdict will be in your arbitration, so please update us when you can. Did you go through the Toyota/Scion mediation service that they provide a number for in the Scion Owners Manual?
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    "... After finding this forum and reading the posts, I am in shock to discover that Toyota has disclosed a design flaw in the scion xB."

    I don't think that is correct. What did you see that? Even in the Nov 2006 settlement to reimburse Element owners for cracks, Toyota did not admit a flaw. There is no reason why Toyota should now admit or will ever admit a flaw in the xB. Even if they ever pay for the windshields.
  • A small rock hit my windshield a few days back and now I have a crack that seems to be extending everyday. I've had my xB for over a year now and never knew there was a problem with xB windshields until I Googl'ed "xb windshield" trying to see how much it would cost to replace the windshield without going through my insurance company. Now I'm wondering if I should argue design flaw because even though a small rock hit my windshield, it should not have resulted in such a large crack, which appears to be continually growing. Please advise.
    Also, has anyone contacted "Fazio Micheletti"?
  • erichderichd Posts: 1
    I don't know if it's specific tot he xB, but whenever you get a crack in ANY windshield, if you don't get it "plugged" or repaired immediately, the crack can spread, or spider web, rather quickly across the whole windshield.

    It m,ay be that the xB's windshield allows a faster propagation of the crack, but if there aren't repair records, I can't see that Toyota or any manufacturer would replace the windshield.
  • I finally had time to take my 2006 Scion XB ( 2nd 2006 Scion XB)to the dealership today regarding the crack (2nd one)that started at the frame behind the mirror and come down then turn towards the drivers side (we all know what that looks like). I took it to Lakeland Toyota here in Lakeland, Florida and was told by the service advisor, Mr. Jeffrey Davis, that they really don't replace the windshields there that you just call your insurance company and they come out and do it in your driveway. I responded with the verbiage "so your telling me that Lakeland Toyota does not replace the windshields here?" to which he responded "yes". I told him that rather than call my insurance company I would rather contact our local ABC news. I was then given the opportunity to come in and meet with the service manager because it seems he has this God like power to authorize Lakeland Toyota to replace the windshield if they determine it''s defective. I so don't trust Toyota (Scion) anymore I actually took video of the crack from every different direction possible cause I'm afraid they will take the car to the bay then call to show me a chip that has never been there before, in other words, I wouldn't put it past them to cause a chip in my windshield deliberately to get out of replacing another one.
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    Toyota does not pay for cracked windshields, yet. Officially, they are due to rock damage. So if the dealer replaces a cracked windshield, they cannot get reimbursed for it by Toyota. Why should the dealer pay for cracked windshields when Toyota will not? What responsibility does the dealer have by himself for your crack? You need to follow the example of Honda Element owners who succeeded in getting reimbursed up to 60,000 miles for any cracked windshields regardless of circumstances.
  • Scion less than one month old. Windshield hit by piece of gravel so small impact was almost inaudible. About one half hour later I noticed a crack. Started at the bottom of the windshield, went up about seven inches, made a right-hand turn about seven inches and stopped. Dealer has been notified, have not heard from service dept yet.
    I have also posted with law firm that was successful in it's class action suit re: Honda Element. Also the NHTSA. Just talking about this situation on these forums will not be enough to resolve this issue.
  • Could you please post law firms contact information or email to thatnamesused@aol.com Thank you so much for your assistance!
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I would think a crack from a rock strike would not be something you would get replaced for from Toyota - I mean that happens ALL the time to lots of cars, there a dozens of auto glass places in town to take care of that.

    Now if your glass was cracking due to stress or flex that is something else.

    How to prove it either way could be a problem.

    Next time I am talking with my agent I will ask how this is covered under my insurance - it is 100% covered or a deductible or what. What does your insurance say?

    Dennis
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    The rock impact causes a pit. In most windshields, this is not a problem and many pits are accumulated. The xB windshield is evidently under stress, such that the pit soon radiates a crack. Some windshields must have enough stress to crack without a pit, as cracks have happened while the car was parked in the sun, or parked in a garage.
  • This is the firm that successfully negotiated a settlement with Honda. With enough input to them from Scion owners it is possible that we may also have a shot at fair and reasonable compensation.

    http://www.fazmiclaw.com/classactions.html
  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    I just wanted to update everyone what has been going on with my xB and the windshield. Basically the dealership blew me off about the whole issue. Scion Customer Experience was worthless and mailed all of my windshield replacement invoices, 8 windshields in 6 months, to their Legal team. I wasn’t going to wait around to hear what they said so I contacted an attorney to get the lemon law case started.

    I had a LOT of documentation that I provided to my lawyer along with audio recordings of Scion and Toyota representatives saying that the stress crack issue is a problem, but one they are not officially recognizing. This was just a few audio clips out of a dozen gems I have collected about this issue. All my attorney did was send a letter with my intent to take them to court over the issue and they caved. He didn’t even have to file a complaint.

    What happened? Toyota repurchased my car. It took about 20 days for them to line up all the paperwork on their end. If anyone has questions please feel free to email me. lavarious@lavarious.com
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    So Toyota repurchased the whole car rather than pay for all the windshields?
    As if the particular car itself was a lemon. This is more expedient and cheaper than admiting that all the cars have the inherent problem, and agreeing to replace any and all windshields that crack.
    It seems to indicate that Honda Element settlement approach will not go anywhere for our out-of-production xBs, and that people should collect windshield crack documentation in anticipation of when their crack may happen, so they have something to give their lawyer for a letter, in case the dealer does not agree to replace the windshield.
  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    Correct. In my opinion, and what has happened with my case, I believe that Toyota does indeed know about the problem but act as if they do not. They are weighing which will be more expensive:

    A) Act like nothing is wrong and repurchase the cars of a few people who actually hire an attorney to take them to court.

    or

    B) Acknowledge there is a design defect in the vehicle and either replace/refund everyone for their windshields or have a class action suit to pay out to.

    They could care less about their customers; they are more concerned about their bottom line. The 2008 xB is completely redesigned in terms of its windshield. It is 4" shorter and has a longer grade to help with deflection. I have a Scion rep recorded telling me they did this because of the windshield issue. I have all sorts of interesting audio clips and documentation. I will be launching a website shortly to show everyone exactly what I did to win my case, what I used to collect evidence, and who my attorney was in case you'd like some advice from him as well.

    Scion/Toyota could have easily just taken care of this straight away, but instead they played games and pissed me off. I want to make sure those of you who are serious about this and want to hire an attorney have the evidence you need to win your case. I believe that if you use my attorney, or possibly one of his contacts in your local state, you can use the evidence I have already collected against them on this issue.

    What do I get out of it? Satisfaction. That is all. My website will be completely free and used as an informational source. I know what a headache it was for me to go through this entire deal and how much stress I was under, so I want to help out fellow drivers who have done nothing wrong other than purchase a car that is obviously flawed.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    FWIW, windshields on practically all vehicles today are part of the structural integrity of the body design, and are designed to be under stress. Lose integrity of the windshield, and you lose structural integrity of the roof system.

    The primary reason for the xB windshield cracks, etc. is the more vertical "stance" of its design. And, the probability of the tempering level of the safety glass.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    It is a big hunk of glass in a nearly vertical position. So any rocks or other road debris that hit it are much more likely to cause a chip, crack, or break. Most other modern cars have a ton more slope on the glass for aerodynamic (and style) reasons and the same hit would be a lot less likely to result in damage. Is this a design flaw or just the style of the xB? For the problems caused just by road debris, I would vote for style. A penalty you have to pay for having the box - you may be more prone to glass damage than on other cars.

    But it seems that some folks either drive in the worst conditions constantly, have really rotten luck, or do have some flex or weakness in their xBs that cause them go through many, many windshields. I guess it could be that the OEM FACTORY glass works best at handling the stress and strain of the design, but once this breaks (maybe from road junk?) the aftermarket or OEM dealer replacement glass just can't hack it and breaks for both road junk and from stress and strain? I would be for cost reasons, the majority of folks have gone aftermarket for the glass and not even tried another OEM replacement. Even if they did, is the dealer installed glass the same as the factory glass?

    There are plenty of xBs on the road with the original glass in them, so if it is a "design flaw" it does not affect that many of the cars. Maybe the problem comes in after you have had to replace the glass for any reason, then your box becomes a glass eater?

    Just wondering.

    Dennis
  • caliberchiccaliberchic Posts: 402
    Congrats, and thank you for taking the time to organize a site of that nature. I am sure it will be helpful to future xB owners.
  • lavariouslavarious Posts: 11
    My xB had tons of OEM glass put into it and it cracked just the same. This wasn't caused by road debris or impacts; it was caused from sitting in the sun and the frame flexing. How do I know that caused the crack? I have spoken with several Toyota/Scion service people who have told me they have been standing next to the cars when it happens. Want to know the real kicker? I have it all recorded on audio.

    I have used around 3 different makes of glass in the car and none of them would stop the cracking. I got it replaced through a 3rd party vendor because my dealership refused to replace the glass in it because they claimed it was caused by impacts, which it was not. It cracked the 2nd day I had it. They actually told me to use my insurance and a 3rd party vendor.

    To give you an example of the cracking: I got into my car on a Monday, after the glass had been replaced on the following Friday, the car sat all weekend and was never moved. I got into the car and there is a crack in it running from center about 6 inches, taking a 90 degree turn heading towards the passengers side about 14 inches. We are talking like a 20 inch crack caused by nothing. Sure, I had impacts almost on a bi-weekly basis causing chips, pits, cracks, and stars, but these were always after the stress crack appeared. I finally gave up replacing the glass and decided I would just drive it until I could no longer see out of the windshield. Luckily I no longer own the car, but I am sure some sad sap is going to go to that dealership, purchase it, and have a big headache on his/her hands.
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    My 1991 Mazda truck has a vertical windshield like the xB, which is why I got the xB -- ease of entry. The truck is on its third windshield in 150,000 miles, but only because large impacts did serious immediate damage. The windshields accumulate many audible small pebble strikes which cause numerous tiny pits but no cracking.

    My 2006 xB windshield has not cracked in 12,000 miles only because I don't drive where it is likely to be hit by a pebble to make a pit, and the car is parked all day in a garage out of the sun.

    If I was unable to protect my xB in these ways, and if/when I started replacing windshields, I would get another car.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,663
    rocks flying off of truck and car tires here in SE Arizona than my state of birth, Washington state. In Washington state it seemed like I got a flying rock pitting my windshield every month. One time I was driving my '01 Kia Sportage 4X4 south on I-5 coming out of Mount Vernon towards Everett/Seattle.

    I was going my normal 60-70mph in the Sportage. Suddenly some hick in a logging truck goes flying by me in the fast lane(I was in the middle lane). He was really accelerating to storm up a large and long hill just south of Mt.Vernon.

    Pock! A good-sized rock, probably off of one of the logs on his truck, or his tires kicked it up, came flying into and off of my windshield. It was a bad ping-ding, one that started to spread soon after impact.

    I notice here in Arizona that there are no flying rocks or even pebbles. Missouri had some but not like Washington and South Dakota also had very few. Driving in Washington state requires protective equipment for your rig. No kidding.

    I am not kidding but I have not had a single pebble or rock(or a bone...that's right...once again, going south on I-5 in Everett, WA, north of Seattle, I was driving to work one morning and a loud SMACK bonks my windshield. An dork in a pickup truck with a dog in the back let loose somehow of a bone...talking cattle bones here. It bounced up high on the freeway and back in to the air again and found a nice place on my rig's windshield to bounce off of. Another crack that needed professional repair. I'm glad to be out of that state for more reasons than rocks, pebbles and bones)in Arizona bounce into and off of my windshield.

    I should just drop it(pardon any pun)and hope that I don't find any window-pockers down here. I do feel bad for those that are having problems with their Scion windshields. A big boy company like Toyota/Scion should be stepping up to the plate and compensating you. Sounds like a bad design idea that's already out and they can't just pull the plug on the vehicle because it's out and sold already.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

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