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Why so few economy cars with manual tranny?

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Comments

  • bearcrkrdbearcrkrd Posts: 167
    I was at a dealer last week getting service, and walked the lot. Looked at every vehicle. Climbed into a couple, a Matrix and special edition xB. Tons of Corollas, and many more Yaris than any time I can remember. Checking the window stickers, unless it kills you $$ wise to spend 3 grand or so more for a Corolla, the Yaris makes no sense whatsoever. You get the same mileage and twice the vehicle. I felt that way stronger than ever after that walkthrough last week. The next-gen Fit I'll sure give a good look-see when it comes out, but I'm having a hard time finding a smaller sensible vehicle that's screwed together as well as my '06 Sienna CE.
  • ttaittai Posts: 114
    what??? why not just buy a minivan then.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    Last time I checked, a Sienna IS a minivan, which he already has. I'm not so sure the smaller cars like the Fit, Yaris, and Corolla aren't screwed together as well as the Sienna (unlike the domestics, I believe Honda and Toyota builds ALL of their vehicles with the same top notch level of build quality). It just sounds like what he's looked at hasn't been his cup of tea. I too am disappointed with the new crop of sub-compacts and compacts as I think they all fall short for their intended purpose. They're all overpriced for their size segment, many of them are underequipped, and none of them are achieving the kind of fuel economy they SHOULD be getting.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,664
    The Yaris is fun to drive and is a great city or "metro" car, for parking, maneuvering, etc. But if you are a full time freeway driver, I think you're right. But if you are a city dweller and you like to shift, zip around, rev it up, etc., the Yaris would be a lot more fun than a Corolla, which is a great car but basically an automotive sedative.

    I sold my xA for this very reason, that I am a 95% freeway driver. My friend bought my car and is a 90% city driver, and she is very happy vs. her old Corolla.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,669
    Did you replace it with a Mini? :-)

    In my area, most dealers are now carrying a good stock of stick shift Yaris and Corolla. At the Honda dealer, there has never been a problem finding a decent selection of stick shift Civics and Fits.

    Accords with a stick seem to be harder to find since the model turnover, and I can't recall the last time I saw a stick shift Camry...

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • bearcrkrdbearcrkrd Posts: 167
    Good comments, thx! I did notice during my walkthrough on that lot last week that there were may be 1 or 2 Yaris w/manual tranny. I don't remember any Corolla being a manual. Big change from the very recent past at that dealership, and this area as a whole. There was a whole row of Corollas that stickered for $18,200. LE's, I believe, w/auto tranny and plastic hubcaps, identical pkg's. One XRS with the 2.4L. I can't remember if it was manual or auto. Auto, I think....
    I rented a Yaris and went over the Cascades and back, shortly after the Yaris came out. Hatchback w/auto & the 'Power Pkg w/Alum wheels'. It was a fun drive. If I was 21 or 31 instead of 51, might have brought it home. Sat in an Astra a couple weeks ago. Was very impressed, at least as much as you could be from just sitting in it.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,664
    Nope, no MINI. Got a Subaru Outback to haul bikes and also for nasty rain-soaked winter roads. It's a LOT more stable at high speeds than the xA, which was wind-happy.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    Is the Outback a full time AWD?
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    Oh, I HATE those dam plastic wheel covers! They're so cheezy! I think all trim levels except for the very base model should come with alloy wheels.

    Heck I'm 50 and I'd buy a Yaris IF I could get one the way I want it equipped, which I can't. I only like the hatchback model and unfortunately Toyota won't offer it with the options I want on it.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,664
    Yeah Outback is full time AWD system. Not an exciting car but very versatile. Not as good MPG as the xA however.

    AWD consumes more fuel.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    The Outback is a nice design, but that full time AWD system is hard on gas. Too bad Subaru won't go to a smart AWD system like Toyota has whereas it only went into AWD when wheel slippage was sensed.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    I've heard that Honda only build manuals in the Accord in batches, so there are probably several months between each production run.
  • bearcrkrdbearcrkrd Posts: 167
    A few years ago I almost bought a Ford because all of them had alloys. It's not true anymore, but that's how I remember it. 2001 or 2002 it was. The Yaris 4 door just isn't what I'm looking for. Toyota's own Corolla does it so much better. The Corolla parks small enough. But....I've been to San Francisco, and in about half that county anything bigger than a Mini is too big. A couple of neighborhoods in Seattle same thing. The Yaris hatch is ok. I just thought it was a one-person vehicle. Alright, two would work. Anything more than 10,000 miles a year would become tedious for me. That's what I got from the drive I took. Does not make it so for anyone else. It was a beautiful scenic drive of 225 miles or so. One thing to remember is the Yaris is built on the Echo platform. I believe that is the most reliable vehicle on the road (all vehicles, not just Toyotas) in the last 10 years. The '04-'06 Sienna isn't far behind. I do not need a new vehicle, but that hasn't stopped me in the past. I've got spoiled. A couple options I would very much like to see standard on all trim levels are heated outside mirrors, traction/stability control, and a power drivers seat with power lumbar adjust. Wasn't long ago I considered air conditioning (that worked well) along with power windows and locks a modern marvel.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    Not so sure I agree the Echo is more reliable than the Corolla. It has been almost completely bullit proof for literally decades. It may even still hold the title of most reliable car EVER.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,669
    By most measures of reliability available to consumers, Echo did beat the Corolla for reliability. It is I think the most reliable Toyota of the last decade, including Lexus/Scion.

    Given its basic nature, there are very few things that could go wrong with the Echo, so its kind of logical that it would be the most reliable. The powertrain, certainly, has been cast-iron bulletproof.

    Now Corolla DOES hold the title of model with the most cumulative global sales ever (over 25 million sales since inception when it earned this title, which was probably five years ago now).

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,664
    Actually under ideal conditions (cruise control, flat terrain, 55-65 mph) I can get up to 31 mpg on the Outback, and have done so repeatedly. However, this is a fresh engine.

    In normal driving, the 2.5 four cylinder engine (about as big as you want to go with a 4 cylinder engine) averages city/hwy about 23-26 mpg.

    Not bad.

    But it doesn't rev like the 1.5 xA (Yaris) engine did/does.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    I haven't seen any reliability data that shows the Echo as being more reliable than the Corolla.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,664
    How can anything be more reliable than a Corolla?
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    I haven't seen any data that says anything is.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,683
    Being made in Japan both the ECHO and the Corolla are probably equally reliable! But the Camry is said to have problems.
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