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Restoration Advice



  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,637
    I used to judge actually. As you can tell, I didn't much care for it.

    When you have a LOT of a certain car still around, like a Mustang, and when you have a LOT of people restoring them, the competition is fierce and so the focus becomes more and more intense, and revolves around those little details.

    But all that can blow up in your face. I've seen judges take points off on a car I know for certain was never touched. The problem of course, is that the factory didn't always do things one particular way, so questions always remain.

    Striving for perfection can be admirable, and it can become a parody of itself. It depends.

    In my humble opinion, finding the correct air cleaner on a rare shaker hood or rare intake manifold is indeed striving for perfection and should be rewarded. Insisting on the correct markings on a fender bolt from a car slammed together on an assembly line in Detroit in numbers bordering 1/2 million,---this to me is a waste of good people's good time.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305
    Did you judge Mustangs, if so which generation? Still have your active card?

    They are not easy to attain these days.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,637
    No I did more like charity events, 50s cars and British cars. I really don't have any interest in Mustangs per se. In the charity events you can ask for certain marques or eras but sometimes they stick you with cars that you aren't much interested in. I really wouldn't feel qualified to judge but a few types of cars. I'd be good on MGs and Porsches I think and Packards. I was asked to judge at the recent Marin-Sonoma Classics show but declined and went into the Car Corral instead, where cars were for display only. I like talking to owners, especially those that have done modifications such as Pro Tourers or Retro-Rods. Their ingenuity is quite amazing sometimes.
  • tbird8tbird8 Posts: 5
    Are the 390 and 428 the same motor? Excuse the stupidity here but I've always thought the 428 was a 390 with different heads. Shows what I know. Oh what about the 1963 birds? any better? Or same problems?">
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,902
    Maybe this year I will attend that and not stumble into some back entrance where a guy tries to charge me $20 admission...

    Personally, I value preserved unrestored cars more than overblown restorations.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,587
    The 390 and 428 are from the same engine family, the "FE" engine, which started in 1958 as the 332 and 352 in Fords and the 361 in Edsels. The 428 had a larger bore than the 390, and probably took the block to its limits, with either too thin of a cylinder wall, too narrow of a water jacket, etc.

    The 428 was as big as they were able to take that engine block, so it was replaced around 1968. A new big-block came out, initially displacing 429 CID, but in the 70's it bumped up to 460.

    I know a guy who has one of those "7-Litre" Galaxies, which was the 428. He blew it up somehow, but I forget exactly what happened. Either threw a rod, spun a bearing, or whatever, but it pretty much destroyed the engine.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,637
    I think those engines are kinda dogs, aren't they?
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305
    The only reason they were dogs is due to the restrictive emission accessories imposed on them. For instance, it made a big difference when I removed the 20 Second Delay valve between the carb port and the vacuum advance. Turning the air cleaner cover upside down helped it breath as well. The first item I ever removed was the Thermactor - what a POS that was. ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,349
    No, they are not the same motor. The 428's have a bigger bore among other things.

    I'm not trying to scare you away. As I said, I actually like these cars but unless you have a lot of knowledge or someone who will actually work on one, they can be a nightmare.

    And, they handle horribly.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,349
    They have those back enterances pretty well covered but you may get lucky. Since it's on a Saturday, I'll be working and I'll miss this one.

    Yes, the over restored cars don't do much for me. In a lot (most) of cases, they weren't that nice when they left the factory.

    I like the survivor cars myself that the owners can actually drive.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,637
    That's very true--the restorations I see are far better than what the factory built. When you see a totally original car in great shape you can see this for yourself.

    If you took a 1965 car out of a time capsule and it was pristine with 0 miles on it, and you entered it in a modern auto show for judging, it would probably lose (if the judges didn't know it was an original).
  • tbird8tbird8 Posts: 5
    I found a beauty on ebay, a rag top no less! and at a reasonable price. kinda hate to bid on it now, also looked at a Olds Toronado from 1966. Has the same kind of 60's cool look to it. Do you know anything about these? I know its a front driver, but no one I ever knew ever had one to ask about, but must be a cousin of a caddy, right?
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,637
    I really like the '66 Toros. Yes, cousin to the Cadillac drivetrain. These are pretty awesome cars. Torque like a freight train. Gas guzzling monsters, great in snow, good power and handling for its vintage.

    Downside? Totally impractical 60s coupe---huge car, no room for people.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,902
    I won't be able to make it to the Saturday event either, but they have a peoples choice show or something on Sunday.

    I guess last year, my first time to visit this event, the guy thought I wanted to enter my car or something :confuse: ...I think I was driving the fintail at the time, which would look pretty odd in a Ford show.

    I'm more content with the condition of my old car as time goes on. It would be laughed out of a concours style event, but it runs good, looks good, and I don't have to worry about hurting it when I drive it. It likes to be driven. It's a car.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,349
    I wasn't trying to scare you away. Just sharing my opinion. Unless a person is aware of the strengths and weaknesses of certain models they can get in way over their heads.

    A 1966 Toronado is everything our HOST says about it. Much better workmanship and far fewer electrical problems.

    A MUCH better choice would be a Buick Riviera from that era. Just wonderful cars that have a strong following and support group.

    I miss mine.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,349

    Do you ever go th the XXX Drive In in Issaquah? Every Saturday evening,a lot of old cars converge there and almost every Sunday morning it's the same thing.

    I'm almost always there looking around. On Saturdays a lot of the guys head to the Gaslamp in Issaquah afterwards to eat. A bunch of good guys!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,902
    I've been to a small MB gathering there once, maybe 12-15 cars, that was it. There's a definite lack of automotive-themed gatherings in this part of the world, especially those that aren't built around cloned muscle cars and 70s style 55 Chevy hot rods etc. My cars are weird, and don't fit in among those.

    Do you notice any obscure cars there?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,587
    I think those engines are kinda dogs, aren't they?

    I've heard that they're not as powerful as you might think something like that would be. Looking online, I've seen 0-60 times from 8.2 to 8.8 seconds, and I found a quarter mile time of 16.5 seconds@ 83 mph.

    It had 345 hp, which also doesn't sound like a lot to me, for something that's supposed to be a high performance engine. However, a lot of the "real" high-performance engines back then, like the 426 Hemi, and probably the 425 hp version of the Chevy 409 and 396, were a pain in the butt to live with on a daily basis unless you were living life a quarter mile at a time. Great for racing and showing off and getting tickets, but they'd go out of tune in a heartbeat, run hot, tended not to be happy with creature comforts like air conditioning, power steering, etc, and were geared so short they sounded like they were screaming even at idle.

    I think the 7-litre was supposed to be a more "civilized" attempt at a full-sized performance car. A car that was still a pretty good performer, but something you could still be comfortable driving to work and running errands, day in and day out.

    My friend's other old car is a 1959 Dodge Coronet 2-door hardtop, with the D500 package. 383 with dual quads and 345 hp. He blew the engine on that one, too. :sick:
  • d4smfd4smf Posts: 2

    I would like to ask you for your help. Does someone of you know anything about restoration of German Ford Taunus 17M? How much will it cost (approximately), and where i can find spare parts for this car in this area (Balkan Peninsula- Europe)? I have no experience in restoration, so any advice will be welcomed :).

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,637
    My rule of them is that you always start searching for parts in the country of origin. These sources might include car clubs for that marque, of course wrecking yards, Internet (eBay, local bulletin boards) and print publications dedicated to old cars.
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