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2008 Pontiac G8

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  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Not a spy, just a Pontiac and Holden enthusiast. Pics came from the "Autobiography" book I mentioned a few posts up... highly recommended for the person really interested in the true story of this car's development (got my copy from http://www.pitstop.net.au for ~$80 Australian... spent at least half that in shipping to get it here, but can't recommend the book more highly)...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,415
    good find!

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,415
    been mighty quiet here. maybe this will get something going. Pontiac has put up a G8 builder.

    No pricing yet.

    One little complaint so far. The premium pack adds a 6-way power seat. 6-way? Really? On a car that, according to the ad in C&D, is being compared to BMW? I know it might be a nit, but for me, fitting comfortably in a car is not easy. I mean, who knows, it COULD be comfy for me. We'll see.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • topgun7topgun7 Posts: 409
    http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g8.html#more-4765

    The base model — priced from $27,595 — features a 261 horsepower 3.6-liter V6 with 250 pound-feet of torque. A more powerful G8 GT — starting at $29,995 — delivers 362 horsepower and 391 pound-feet of torque thanks to a 6.0-liter V8.

    The basic G8 features a five-speed automatic with manual mode, while the GT version is offered with either a six-speed automatic or six-speed manual gearbox.

    Curb weight for the V6 model is 3,885 lbs, while the GT weighs just five pounds shy of 4,000. 18-inch wheels come standard, while 19-inch alloys can be ordered with the GT model.

    The sedan rides on GM's new Zeta rear-wheel-drive platform, which underpins the 2009 Camaro and possibly the next-generation Impala, in addition to several other planned vehicles.

    G8 deliveries are expected to begin in early 2008 — a relatively short lead time made possible by some very effective badge engineering.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,415
    The 6-spd manual will not be available at launch, which is why it is not listed on the G8 builder site.

    I wonder if leftlanenews got the pricing right.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,415
    Just got the email from autoweek with the same pricing, so i guess that is official. It claims it was sent to dealers this morning.

    Autoweek, however, does not list the 6-speed manual, and rightly so (for now).

    The G8 will have a base 256-hp, 3.6-liter variable valve-timed V-6 engine and five-speed automatic transmission. It will have driver shift control and sport mode availability. Standard features will include StabiliTrak electronic stability control, six airbags and OnStar.

    The G8 GT will have a 6.0-liter V-8 mated to a six-speed automatic transmission. Other standard equipment will include limited slip differential and a premium 230-watt Blaupunkt 11-speaker sound system, according to a memo Pontiac sent to dealers this morning.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • actualsizeactualsize Santa Ana, CaliforniaPosts: 144
    Has anyone seen this!

    Ouch.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 4,138
    Not surprising that a tester fell asleep at the wheel. The article I read about Death Valley testing a few weeks back said that the testers operate out of a cheap hotel on very little sleep, plus, someone on Jalopnik noted that, being a Holden engineer, he may have also been jetlagged.

    I was surprised to read that he had only minor injuries after seeing the car and a description of the crash!
  • actualsizeactualsize Santa Ana, CaliforniaPosts: 144
    I've been the Death Valley tester staying in the cheap motel in Beatty, Nevada (the best one is a Motel 6). The days can be long, but I always got my 8 hours. The heat is the worst part - especially if you are doing hot-soak air conditioner tests: soak a black car in the summer sun a Furnace Creek for an hour, jump in wearing long sleeves and long pants, keep the windows up and start driving immediately with the fan on high blowing really hot air in your face for the next ten minutes. Good times.

    And there are, of course, spy photographers to elude and civilian vehicles "in your way" as you try to drive a preset pattern.

    I've seen a lot of crews for other companies with laptops rigged up for the driver to fiddle with while driving that pattern.

    Another factor besides Aussie jet lag to consider here is the fact that they drive on the "wrong" side of the road down there. Add a little fatigue with a trafficless two-lane and it's possible to imagine someone drifting onto the wrong side of the road.

    Dan

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 4,138
    I drove through Death Valley this summer. I can't imagine doing a "hot soak" A/C test. Most of the time I got out of the car to take a picture, and got right back in--both due to the heat and because my left ankle was sore from walking too much in the days before. There were people out hiking in the 117-degree heat! I didn't see many civilian vehicles except near the major attractions.

    On topic: My rental car was a Dodge Charger 2.7-liter. Hope Pontiac doesn't do a similar decontenting of the G8!
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Gas tanks under the trunk have been unlawful in the US for a while now, which is why the GTO had to have it in the trunk (the Crown Vic & Co. were grandfathered in).

    I believe your statement is false.

    Reference the regulation or law.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    My guess is that it's not illegal, however I believe there is a standard for rear-end collisions that makes putting it behind the rear axle very difficult. The Crown Vic and Company IIRC are also under big scrutiny due to the rear end explosions that have killed several Law Officers.

    -mike
  • actualsizeactualsize Santa Ana, CaliforniaPosts: 144
    The test goes like this: Rear-end the test car at 50 mph.

    If there are any fuel leaks, the tank fails.

    Invert the smashed car 180-degrees. If there are any leaks, the tank fails.

    Fuel tanks behind the rear axle aren't used because they simply can't pass this test - unless a racing-type ballistic-material fuel bladder is inside the tank. This upgrade is way too expensive for passenger car use.

    But if an automaker would ever pop for the cost (and customers were willing to pay for it), they could pass the test with an aft-mounted tank.

    I believe the aftermath to the above-mentioned scrutiny included discussions of retrofitting such bladder-lined tanks into police cars to keep them on the road, but I never heard the final result.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • bigelmbigelm Posts: 995
    This or the G35 but I'm liking the whole rebadged Holden here :)
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    rayainsw: Thank you very much for posting that link. The multi-part video is indeed very interesting and informative.

    I first toured an assembly plant in 1967 as a cub scout (full size Chevy's in St. Louis, MO), and would like to see such a modern car built in such a modern plant.

    Big companies can range all of the way from multiplying the worst in all of their employees to multiplying the best in all of their employees, and the new Zeta-platform cars are very strong evidence that GM is forcefully moving back to multiplying the positives. :)
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    Apparently not 'official' EPA #s, but I am told that the G8's Launch Site shows MPG:

    "The Pontiac G8 with the 3.6L V6 engine is estimated to achieve 17 miles per gallon in the city and 24 miles per gallon on the highway. The G8 GT with the 6.0L engine will achieve an estimated 15 miles per gallon in the city and 23 miles per gallon on the highway.*

    *MPG based on the EPA's new 2008 fuel economy standards "
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    I'm really glad to see the G8 coming. I like its' looks, and the design seems good. I sincerely hope GM doesn't neuter it and offer it as an automatic only! But GM is getting smart and using its' global resources (Holden, Opal, etc.) to bring better cars here. What I can't figure out is why Ford doesn't do the same, and bring the Aussie Falcon and european Mondeo here. Their current lineup is outdated and with the exception of the Mustang, extremely BORING. Get with it, Ford!
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    "The Pontiac G8 with the 3.6L V6 engine is estimated to achieve 17 miles per gallon in the city and 24 miles per gallon on the highway. The G8 GT with the 6.0L engine will achieve an estimated 15 miles per gallon in the city and 23 miles per gallon on the highway."

    15 MPG is going to be a tough sell, with gas ~$3.00/gal!
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    1) Is driving a G8 V8 worth $100 per month more than driving some little box (e.g. Corolla, Spectra, Versa) which gets approximately 25MPG in the city?

    2) Is $100 a month enough to even waste time worrying about?

    For someone driving 15,000 miles per year (all city, a real worst case):

    15 MPG, gas @ $3 = $3,000 per year

    25 MPG, gas @ $3 = $1,800 per year = $100 per month savings
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    Some people do actually prefer to use less gasoline – for other than purely economic reasons.

    That said, I see these numbers as about what I’d expected, though a bit lower than I’d hoped.

    Looking at a couple of somewhat similar sized sport sedans with V8s:

    The 2008 Audi A8 V8 6-speed automatic is EPA rated at 16 \ 23 – and was rated at 18 \ 25 under the EPA’s ‘old scheme’ for 2007.

    The 2008 BMW 550 V8 with 6-speed automatic is EPA rated at 15 \ 23 – and was rated at 17 \ 25 for 2007.

    At least the G8 does have a 19 gallon fuel tank.

    Having thousands of miles of driving experience with GM’s DoD ( 2005 Grand Prix GXP, V8 5.3L, DoD – now called AFM ) in a V8, I am very curious to find out if this engine & trans combination will allow 4 cylinder operation at higher road speeds than the previous iteration.

    In the case of my previous GM car – I believe that the DoD was specifically tuned \ calibrated to engage & provide benefit at speeds up to 60 MPH. Not coincidentally, the highest speed in the EPA test, through MY 2007.

    My personal experience, was that if I maintained a cruising speed of 60 or below ( as in heavily patrolled rural areas ) I could maintain close to the EPA highway number. [ = 27, same as my 2007 C6 Coupe w/A6. ] But at anything over 65 MPH or so, DoD would not typically engage – and the MPG would suffer accordingly.

    And the point in the fuel mileage vs MPH curve where above a certain MPH, under certain specific conditions, DoD will not engage – seems to result in a sharp drop in MPG. In fact, if such a chart exists at GM, I’d predict that it would show in a discontinuity (??) in the curve. Meaning a straight drop, where DoD disengages, then pick up a continuation of the downward sloping curve – at a substantially lower MPG level as speed continues to rise.

    For example. One might expect a somewhat linear drop in MPG as speed rises across the range of typical US highway travel. (Yes, I know, not really linear and not over all speed ranges, etc)

    But for purposes of illustration here - If I assume that at an absolutely steady speed of 60 MPH, my GXP could achieve 30 MPG, then at 65 it might be capable of 28 and at 70 it might be 26 and at ( theoretically ) 75 it might be 24 and at 80 it might be 22 MPG.

    If DoD is actually operable up to about 70, in the real world, but will not engage starting at say 73.14159 MPH for instance, the numbers might then look like this:

    MPH\MPG

    60 – 30 (DoD on)
    65 – 28 (DoD on)
    70 – 26 (DoD on)
    75 – 20 (No DoD - instead of 24 if DoD was in operation)
    80 – 18 (No DoD - instead of 22 if DoD was in operation)

    I am sorta making these numbers up, and I realize the drop is never a precisely linear slope, but I believe these are in the range of possibility \ reality for my GXP, under ideal conditions.

    This would mean that exceeding the DoD engagement threshold would cost something like an additional 20 or more percent (24 with DoD vs. 20 at 75 MPH without DoD and 22 vs. 18 at 80, etc.) beyond the expected decrease as speed rises beyond whatever that critical speed actually is. My driving suggests that the threshold speed ( above this, DoD does not engage in ** my ** typical driving ) is between 70 and 75.

    But that’s just me speculating.

    YMMV.

    The Corvette developers, based on my 14,500+ miles of driving thus far & in reading many Forum board posts, appear to have assigned more equal weight to MPG in real world driving. And ( obviously ) DoD is not an issue.

    For the same example speeds as listed above, I’d estimate my Corvette at something like:

    MPH\MPG

    60 – 34
    65 – 33
    70 – 32
    75 – 30
    80 – 28 [ = still over EPA highway of 27 ]

    -ish.
    Just my $0.03 worth – adjusted for inflation.
    - Ray
    Still enjoying the drive – and not obsessing about MPG . . (?)
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    I could probably live with it, for the performance. However - $1200/year is NOT an insignificant amount of money. If I had a long commute (I'm semi-retired), it would probably be a deal breaker. Kudos to you, if it is, but it is NOT insignificant to me. Or to a lot of other people, which was my point of a "hard sell"... That will put off a LOT of people from buying. That's why large SUV sales are way down, and many are dumping their SUV's to get something more efficient. When you've got a mortgage, kids, etc. etc. etc., that 15 MPG on the window sticker is a big red flag.

    And 17 MPG from a V6 is just awful.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    Perhaps an even more telling comparison here regarding the G8 V8 is the ( new for 2008 ) BMW 535i.

    [[ BTW: I am WELL aware that each sedan I have mentioned here is substantially more expensive than the G8 V8, with the 535 starting at $50K or so – and I ** WILL ** be taking that into consideration at purchase decision time . . . ]]

    The 535 is EPA rated at 17 \ 26 – and offers very nearly the same acceleration as the 550. With that 550 at 15 \ 23. The Edmunds 535 test reported 0 to 60 in 5.5 seconds ( A6 trans ) and the Quarter in 14.0 @ just over 100.

    In this context, the G8 V8 with a rating of 15 \ 23 seems "OK" - to me. Not great. Not bad.

    One other data point I find interesting is the 2007 ( no 2008 numbers available yet ) Honda Accord V6 ( not the Hybrid ) with ratings under the 2008 scheme of 18 \ 26. Compared to 17 \ 24 for the G8 V6. If the G8 in other respects appeals, I do not see 1 MPG in the City EPA rating as likely to be a ‘deal breaker’ for most. [[ The actual 2007 sticker for this Accord was 20 \ 29. ]] A 1 MPG difference between the Accord V6 and G8 V6 ( assuming the rating translated exactly to actual driving ) would mean, in 15,000 miles of ( all city ) driving:

    2007 Accord V6 = 18 MPG, gas $3 = $2,500 per year

    G8 V6 = 17 MPG, gas $3 = $2,647 per year

    G8 V8 = 15 MPG, gas $3 = $3,000 per year

    Using these assumptions, the Accord’s gas consumption would cost approx $12.25/month less than the G8 V6, and not quite $30/month less than the G8 V8.

    Assuming ‘base’ G8 V8 at $30K vs the ‘base’ BMW 535i at $50K – well I can drive a loooooong way on $20 grand worth of gasoline. . .

    The remaining questions ( for me ) regarding the G8 are actual dynamics ( acceleration, trans. behavior, braking, handling, ride, fit & finish, etc. ) of production V8 examples.

    It appears that published reports by Edmunds & the Monthlies are likely 2 months away, at least. And a test drive is likely 3+ months away.

    - Ray
    Waiting for those future events, oh so very patiently . . .
  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    I ws dismayed to relize eve the six cylinder is going to come standard with both hood vents and a real spoiler...That's probably a deal breaker for me...
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Wideglide: Doesn't it seem that someone who can not even afford to buy the gasoline for the car has no business being in the showroom looking at a new car? Doesn't it also seem that such a person has no business looking at a high performance sedan?

    By the way, when younger, I had bought into the whole debt sales pitch of the lenders (buy now, pay latter, your income will go up in the future, etc.), but now have no dedt (except mortgages on two rental houses) and buy vehicles with cash.

    The key point with regards to the G8 is that it should not be targeted to buyers who can't afford it. There are plenty who can afford it, and GM and their dealers will do far better if they focus on those buyers.

    As for Accords and other front wheel drive car, GM and their dealers need to focus on the vast superiority of rear wheel drive (and yes, I grew up in St. Louis,a nd lived there and in DC until I was 32, so I have driven plenty of RWD cars in snow, and I did just fine in the winter with good tires and a limited slip rear, and tires and RWD vehicles sold now with stability control and so forth are even better for winter driving).
  • bigelmbigelm Posts: 995
    Though these MPG's are speculative, isn't the G8 going to be running on regular gasoline, when other's like the G35, Lexus and some run on premium? And where did you guys get $3/gallon? That's abusive... we're not even $2.75/gallon for premium in Atlanta.
  • holdenguyholdenguy Posts: 145
    The UK version is an HSV R8, different motor to the Holden SS or G8.
  • holdenguyholdenguy Posts: 145
    Bottom line is that the G8/Holden SS is the best bang for your buck that you will ever get.
    SS has won that award for a couple of years now.
    And yes, the award is called,"Best Bang for your Buck".
  • holdenguyholdenguy Posts: 145
    Right on the money there mate.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    The original post by fsmmcsi [ replying to wideglide ] comparing costs per year assumed 15,000 miles driven per year, $3.00 per gallon & all city driving – at the ( prelim. ) EPA rating.

    I therefore used the same assumptions – in comparing what seemed ( to me ) a somewhat more accurate \ reasonable comparison.

    Some people who have done no research into the EPA’s new test numbers will likely be somewhat startled ( ? ) by the difference between the City & Highway numbers they have seen up to 2007 and the numbers posted on the Window Sticker for 2008.

    My point(s) here are really 2:

    1 - That the 15 MPG number is for the G8 V8, and compared to 2008 EPA ratings for some comparable V8 Sport Sedans ( that cost a lot more ) the G8 V8 is not significantly worse. . . So, I doubt that the 15 MPG will be a “tough sell”, if one also looks at other RWD Sport Sedans offering competitive acceleration.

    2 - The G8 V6 is that 17 MPG number, and the comparison to a well known and somewhat more comparable Accord V6 results in what I’d consider very close estimated fuel mileage numbers. [ The Corolla \ 25 MPG numbers I don’t see as quite fair to the G8. ]

    1 MPG difference is as close as published EPA numbers will ever be, as long as they round to a whole MPG. I presume that someone with fuel mileage as a higher priority would be looking at the G8 V6, not the V8, and compared to an Accord V6, the annual difference in cost for gas ( under the assumptions above ) is more like $147 per year in my comparison – a whole lot less than $1,200 per year.

    Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .

    - Ray
    Back to driving my 6.0L V8 . . .
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Yes rayainsw, the comparison I provided was between the G8 and some of the highest mileage numbers avaialable from non-hybrid vehicles, just to show that the difference between a G8 V8 and those cheap little boxes is not that great. I was thinking of going the next step and comparing the G8 to other vehicles a potential G8 buyer might consider. You beat me to it in a way, as I doubt that a potential G8 buyer would also be considering an Accord. However, the point is the same - the difference in annual fuel cost between a G8 V8 and other medium to large four door sedans is not much, and between the G8 and other high performance four door sedans is even less (witht the G8 better in many cases). For example, here is the 2008 mileage data for a number of other cars:

    Ford Taurus / Mercury Sable AWD City 17 Highway 24
    Chrysler 300 V8 City 15 Highway 23
    Infiniti M45 16 21 premium
    BMW 750i 15 23 premium
    Mercedes-Benz E500 15 22 premium
    Volvo S80 V8 15 23 premium
    Cadilac STS V8 13 19 premium

    Accord V6 19 29
    Camry V6 19 28
    Altima V6 19 27 premium
    Azera V6 17 26

    The estimated city 15 highway 23 on regular for the G8 looks quite good when compared to this list.
This discussion has been closed.