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2008 Pontiac G8

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Comments

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,522
    “If not made in the US, how can it compete against the other imports?”

    Hmmm.
    Apparently I am dense.
    If the G8 is ( for a while, at least ) built in Australia & imported, how does that make it unable to compete against other imports?

    Whether made in Japan, Korea, Germany or England – how does that mean a better competitive position vs a sedan made in Australia?

    And I have read quotes from Lutz indication that GM \ Pontiac has learned from some ( unfortunate ) GTO experience.

    Dealers still have final say in setting actual transaction pricing, but MSRPs for the 2008 model run of G8 GTs appear reasonable & competitive, to me.

    Can you help me understand what you mean in your statement?

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Confused, as usual . . .
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Sorry for the confusion. My bad for not being more clear.

    I assume the other import brands that produce in the US. Some of them do not have union contracts so I am thinking it will be harder to compete on price.

    I hope they did learn from the GTO. But I need to feel that when I walk into a dealer. I have super-high expectation form the OLD big 3 so please excuse my obvious skepticism. Everyone deserves a second chance but blunder after blunder got real old to me and I am full.

    Also, it might be just me but I see a Saturn-like resemblance from the rear view of this car.?

    Regards,
    OW
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,285
    The price has already been announced.

    So what RWD V8 imports are they not competitively priced against at $30k?

    Or are we talking about bread n' butter V6 models? In which case, considering something like an Accord is over $30k full loaded, that would indicate to me that I could step over to the Pontiac dealer and get a RWD V8 for the same money. Seems good to me.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Funny thing is that I like to drive my 400hp cars fast. The GTO being stealthy and NOT sticking out would have been an advantage in my book. :)

    I'm the guy who buys an STi and takes off the wing and big scoop, takes off the gold wheels, and paints the gold brakes black.

    -mike
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,285
    I'm the guy who buys an STi and takes off the wing and big scoop, takes off the gold wheels, and paints the gold brakes black.

    well that's just good taste on your part. ;b

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,522
    “The price has already been announced.

    So what RWD V8 imports are they not competitively priced against at $30k?”

    Exactly. The MSRP has been set. For now, I think we need to set aside speculation about what dealers might charge. Pontiac has set what I see as aggressive pricing, given the basic specifications & the reports I have read.

    The G8 V8 looks likely to post acceleration numbers comparable to a BMW 545 \ 550 V8 or an Infiniti M45.

    It would clearly be unrealistic to expect BMW 5 series levels of ** EVERYTHING **, but the remaining questions in my mind are:

    Will the G8 GT provide something that is ‘good enough’ ( for me ) in the areas of ride, handling & braking. Rev matching on manumatic downshifts. Interior materials, fit & finish. Ergonomics. Front seat comfort, support & adjustability. Control relationships & ‘feel’. Outward vision. Etc.

    All stuff that requires I actually drive one.

    The first question, more generally, is going to be whether or not Pontiac is able to provide both very good acceleration numbers ( looks very likely ) in combination with something like 85 or 90% of the “BMW goodness” in things like feel and refinement – for a very substantially reduced price.

    And, if the answer to the first question is: Yes. Then the second question is what dealers will actually ( try to ) charge.

    For several reasons, when I last purchased a Pontiac ( 2005 ) I ended up disgusted with all local dealers here near Atlanta & I negotiated via e-mail & telephone with a “$49 over invoice & no additional fees” dealer just over 100 miles north of where I live. The deal when very smoothly, and if I do buy a G8 I will likely buy from them again.

    We shall see . . .

    - Ray
    Waiting to see . . .
  • I like lots of horsepower too, but there's more to a car than just having the hp, IMO. I want something that LOOKS good also. That is why I decided a long time ago to buy Pontiac cars. They are known for their styling, as well as performance. What they did w/ their last attempt at the GTO would be comparable to Chevy designing the Corvette to look like an Accord, but keeping the same engine! Yeah, it might still be fun to drive, but wouldnt look nearly as cool!

    Thats one of the biggest reasons I will never own a "foreign" car, is because of the styling. If you line them all up side by side, they all blend in with everything else on the road and have no details that make them stand out in a crowd. I for one still love to look out in my driveway and see my GXP all shined up just sitting there, as well as driving it. How many people can say that about their Honda or Toyota? LOL

    I still turn my head when I see a nicely styled car on the road, or drive by a dealership and something catches my eye, even though it doesnt happen as much as it used to because lets face it, car styling isnt what it used to be, thats why I still stay with Pontiac. Im not a big Dodge fan, but over the summer a dealership nearby had a lime-green Charger SRT sitting out by the road, and I could spot it from half a mile away! It was a nice looking car, something that would look cool driving down the street, as well as turn a few heads in the process. To me, THAT is cool.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Now that we know that the G8 ST car-truck will also be available, Those of us who need the utility it offers will be able to buy a G8.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    No MT available? Is that what I read there? That's a bummer.

    -mike
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,285
    not yet. they've been saying from the get-go that the 6-MT will come some time after initial launch.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Ah ha, so it will come, just not initially. Hopefully they actually do that and it's not a scam....

    -mike
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,522
    ... now posted on fueleconomy.gov.

    Here is the context I see for these ( now ‘official’ ) EPA numbers:

    G8 A6 = 15 \ 24 [ 2008 ]

    Corvette A6 = 15 \ 25 [ 2008 ]
    Corvette A6 [ 2007 ] WAS 17 \ 27
    Would have been 15 \ 25 under the new \ 2008 EPA scheme

    So.

    I happened to fill my Corvette ( 2007 with essentially the same A6 trans. as the G8 GT \ V8 will have ) with gas on Wednesday morning & drove from where I live, northeast of Atlanta, to Macon & back. As I was approaching Atlanta on the return leg – after approx. 185 miles, the Driver Information Center AVG MPG read just over 31. This was driving ‘with traffic’ – mostly 65 to 75 MPH on the highway portions, with 10 or 15 miles of in-town traffic driving thrown in. Looking at the both the run down & back cancels out any effect of elevation change.

    Thus, if the EPA highway rating for the G8 is accurate, I could expect roughly 30 MPG, in an identical run.

    That’d be OK with me . . .

    - Ray
    We’ll see what owners report in the real world . . .
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,911
    30 mpg in a G8? not going to happen...
    25 mpg is also unlikely, based on my GTO-naro 6-spd experience.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I assume the weight of the G8 will be 500 - 600 lbs. more than your 'Vette. That calculates to about 19 mpg combined driving in my book.

    Regards,
    OW
  • actualsizeactualsize Santa Ana, CaliforniaPosts: 136
    The G8 GT is essentially a largish, sport-oriented rear-drive sedan with a Corvette motor in it. Expecting it to also be a thrifty MPG machine is missing the point, I think. Buy something else if a consistent 25 to 30 mpg is important to you.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Agreed. You don't buy a 'Vette for the efficiency either.

    ReGARDS,
    ow
  • mrsyjmrsyj Posts: 77
    does anyone know when this car can be tested by the media? I am curious.
  • shaigshaig Posts: 14
    I stopped by my dealer (Kirkland, WA). They claim they will have a base G8 in the showroom within 30 days .He did not have any of the G8 collateral available, only some generic Pontiac mag that featured the G8 on its cover. Availability of the first few models was tagged for March, at which point he would have a GT model in the showroom. The first shipment of G8's was claimed to contain only 800 for distribution to all Pontiac dealers.

    He warned me that the car would be in "high demand" and that it would be hot! I could see the $$$ signs dripping from his eyes.

    The interesting point is that he claimed his dealership had an allocation of only 20 GT models in the 2008 model year, and that only because they are the leading Pontiac dealer in the PacNW (the latter is a factual claim). So, does anyone know what the production volume for the GTs is expected to be? The numbers would argue no more than 15,000. Can anyone confirm or rebut?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Look at the GTO history. 15,000 would be a lot. Judging from the Lambda 3 CUV's distribution in their first model year, expect to see price gouging from this import.

    Nothing new, really.

    BMW's will look like a bargain vs. the G8 in '08!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • mrsyjmrsyj Posts: 77
    They have announced production of 40k-50k cars which isnt a lot at all. The Grand Prix sells far more than that although many of its sales are to fleets. I would think this car will be selling very close to MSRP for a while.

    I read that the first shipment of cars has left Austalia already. They have already run print ads in magazines so I am thinking you will see cars on lots by the end of January. I just want to know when it will be tested by magazines.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    My dealer is allocated one (Central NJ) due in Feb/March). Many will buy this without a test drive which is not a good policy.

    I will wager that when the dealers do get in their measly allocations, the MSRP will be exceeded by a few grand, as was during the advent of the GTO.

    Any takers?

    Regards,
    OW
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    probably the same thing will happen when the new Solstice was released in 06...many dealers that had one on the lot wouldnt even let you test drive it.....and all were sold for MSRP or over........wait a few months for the frenzy to subside...then order it......thats what Im doing with the CTS......will order this spring....and dealers are giving me near invoice if I order....and charging close to MSRP if buying off the lot..because they can.......and people are willing to pay it to have the first on their block!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Exactly! You know the story of the Solstice...sold like hot cakes after that Donald Trump Apprentice episode.

    Now, they are rotting on the lots!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    General Motors' Holden manufacturing plant in Adelaide, South Australia is now running at full capacity producing the Pontiac G8. The plant — which produces the Commodore model under several brands, including Holden, Vauxhall, Chevrolet, Pontiac and soon to be Daewoo — is currently producing 620 vehicles a day.

    GM expects about half of the vehicles made at the plant will be for export, something Holden has been wanting. "For 60 years, we have been producing world class vehicles primarily for the Australian market. That market has developed into one of the most crowded in the world with almost 50 brands now competing for a share of only 1 million new vehicles annually," GM Holden chairman and managing director Chris Gubbey told Just-Auto.

    Gubbey continued: "GM has recognized Holden's expertise and has entrusted the design and engineering of the group's large rear-wheel drive cars to us."

    The G8 is expected to hit Pontiac showrooms in the first quarter of 2008.


    That about sums it up...limited supply = higher price.

    Regards,
    OW
  • mrsyjmrsyj Posts: 77
    waiting is definitely a good idea because the early cars will command premium prices. I dont think demand will fall off like the Solstice because this isnt a niche car at all. If the car does well I'm sure they will increase production next year to meet demand but even if they do this car will be low production by Grand Prix standards. The good thing for Pontiac is that they likely wont have to do much advertising, the people who want this type of car will know about it.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,285
    Does that say limited numbers? I'm not so sure. My math tells me that's over 6000 Commodores for export per month. That's 72,000 per year. I guess the question is, how many of those are for the US? I suppose 30k-40k is limited by GM standards, but those aren't numbers I think should command a premium, personally.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I suppose 30k-40k is limited by GM standards, but those aren't numbers I think should command a premium, personally.

    They shouldn't but if dealers follow the GTO strategy, the same fate awaits, IMO. GM does not hold the cache for a limited edition sedan and never will.. all shell games aside. You can jack the price up based on limited supply just so far in a market flooded with other choices in this price range. Like the CTS, it's easy to shop Infinity, Lexus or BMW when the price gets too high.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shaigshaig Posts: 14
    It's real simple. The moment they push themselves into the bottom of the $40k range for an OTD equipped vehicle, which puts them in a different class of market demographic. There they begin to compete against a higher end niche (3 series, etc.). Their only way to succeed with this vehicle beyond the initial sell is to ensure that they are priced below that mark. I think that a low volume play will lead to exactly the same result as the GTO.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Agreed...the G8 will never have the cache to bring it upmarket in comparison to the competition. When you can get a CTS for less than this car, forget about it, game over.

    Besides, this car looks a lot like the Saturn Aura. Pretty boring. Where's the creativity?? OTOH, the Camaro and Challenger are VERY interesting.

    Regards,
    OW
This discussion has been closed.