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2008 Pontiac G8

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Comments

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,325
    And that's the one that may hurt it for me. I've only ever been in 1 car without an 8-way seat that I found comfy. So the G8's 6-way seat is going to have to be a damned good one.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Agreed...that would be a major consideration. The 3-series sport seat would be a good model for Holden to copy for a future upgrade. It is absolutely great.

    Regards,
    OW
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    8 way vs 6 way isnt an issue of comfort, its convenience. It just means there is no power recline. The seat would still be exactly the same with 8 way control.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,325
    How do you know this? Is this a standard chevy thing?

    I thought it read "6-way" seat. Meaning there IS NO 8th adjustment, not that there is an 8th adjustment but its just manual.

    So, the way I am reading this is that you have a recline, a slide, and an up-and-down to get your 6 ways. An 8-way seat, on the other hand, has 2 separate up-and-downs for the rear of the seat and the front of the seat. This makes a world of difference for someone 6' 5".

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    It competes with the G8 on some level but its not a sports sedan
    how do you suppose that Hyundai can market the Genesis as a low cost alternative to things like those German sedans - and not be a 'sports sedan' ? If anything I would guess that the Korean car might just do a better job at 'sport sedan emulation' then GM would in a full size Pontiac. A simple comparison of the specs. confirms this - but some actual cars would definitely help.
    And absolutely, $40k is more than anybody is going to want to spend on something with that 'Hyundai' label which is why some traditional Korean deep discounting, PDQ. Both the G8 and Genesis may actually fetch a reasonably high price initially - but once the novelty wears thin and the reality of $4 gas hits, they will end up having to 'give' the cars away.....
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,526
    “How do you know this? Is this a standard chevy thing?

    I thought it read "6-way" seat. Meaning there IS NO 8th adjustment, not that there is an 8th adjustment but its just manual.”

    FWIW: The specs for the 2007 Corvette, both standard & optional ‘sport’ seats, read: 6-way [ power].

    They move for \ aft as well as front or rear of seat bottom up \ down individually – but the backrest angle is ‘manual’.

    I’d be pretty amazed if the G8 didn’t have the ability to move the seat bottom front & rear \ angle in the same way.

    And that would absolutely be a ‘deal breaker’ for me. Though I am not as tall, I do need that adjustability to vary thigh support – particularly on longer trips.

    Again, FWIW.

    - Ray
    Not quite near enough to the NAIAS to visit on a whim, just to find this out . . .
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,325
    I'll be going to the NAIAS in NY, but that's a ways off still.

    I wonder if they'll have one to actually sit in.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • bigelmbigelm Posts: 995
    Rumor has it that GM will offer bluetooth and Nav for MY09. The issue with bluetooth is that they are having issues with their On Star and the Nav is because they offer a 'similar' feature with turn by turn On Star as well (so they say).

    Back to comparisons, I only see very few similarities for competition between the Genesis and G8. More luxury vs. more performance. Hyundai has already mentioned that they are targeting this vehicle as the halo luxury model. Yes, it needs the HP output to compete but performance is not their intended market. Will people cross shop? YES!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I think that the Genesis will be tuned much more for luxury than the G8. The suspension will be softer and floatier, and the NVH significantly better. These are the things that folks who are shopping luxury look for. The G8 (hopefully) will have a significantly stiffer suspension, and thus better handling.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,916
    the GTO-naro driver & passenger seat each have power-recline so i bet the G8's will too.
  • bigelmbigelm Posts: 995
    The seats are 6 way power (optional) which means you get Fwd-Rear, Front up/dwn, and rear up/dwn with a manual recline. The heat switch is in the center console.

    This is quoted from someone who was at the NAIAS prior to public showing. So Mike, I believe you mentioned this setup on the Corvette? - Then you're right. There's also a pic where the rear armrest comes down, then the second membrane for cup holders - problem is when you use the cup holders, the pass thru is open which your rear passengers can access your trunk. If things are not tied down back there, then you're in for a treat.

    I found the pics:

    http://www.hammen.net/bowman/rear_armrest.jpg

    http://www.hammen.net/bowman/pass_thru.jpg
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    The two cars are not aimed at the same market. No one here thinks that except you apparently. The Hyundai is supposed to be a cheaper version of the S or LS, its not a 550 competitor. If you know anything about Hyundais you know they tend to skew towards ride over handling. They are more interested in gunning for Toyota than BMW. As for gas prices, both cars offer V6 engines so its not like they can only be had with gas guzzling V8s. Furthermore, if you actually look at the mileage on the G8 Gt you will see its only slightly worse than the G35. Do you think G35 sales will collapse when gas gets more expensive? There are a number of V6 luxury cars that get 1-2 better mileage than the G8 GT with far less power and torque.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,526
    One can certainly choose to compare anything to anything, I suppose.

    Regarding my reading of the EPA MPG, comparing the G8 GT w/6.0L V8 to a G35 w/3.5L V6 seems somewhat unfair, to me, given the existence of the M45. Much closer in weight & in HP & in performance. ( And fuel economy I see as one aspect of ‘performance’. )

    And yet, the G35 is rated at exactly the same EPA highway MPG as the G8 GT V8. 24 MPG. And the M45 is rated at 16 \ 21.

    That 21 number ( and associated high RPM at highway speeds ) is one primary reason that I did not choose an M45 last time I was shopping for a Sports Sedan. Though ( again ) the M certainly has much to recommend it.

    And I see the highway number as much more important. Stop + go, lower speed driving, with lots of ( opportunities for ) acceleration tends to be an area where the nut that holds the wheel has much more occasion to [ dramatically ] impact actual MPG.

    Many ( including some here ) have suggested that anyone looking at a 4,000# sedan with a 6.0L V8 cannot possibly be ( should not be ) concerned with MPG. I do happen to care. In addition to a desire for what I consider a reasonable trade-off between acceleration performance, carrying capacity & efficiency, I also look at driving range.

    To me, a difference of 21 to 24 ( 3 MPG = over 14% better ) in highway MPG is also the difference of over 50 miles in range, on 18 gallons of gas. ( To be fair here, the M45 does have a 20 gallon tank vs. 19 for the G8 – so if you run both leaving approx. 1 gallon ‘in reserve’, the G8 will only be able to travel an additional 33 miles. But the M45 will then require an additional 2 or 3 cups of hot & tasty coffee worth of gas when filled. Each time it is filled, under these conditions. )

    - Ray
    Looking forward to fuel use reports from actual customers in actual driving . . . Maybe next month?
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    G8 will be in next issue of C&D.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    If you guys really think that a 6.0L v8 will get comparable milage to a V6 I'm a monkey's uncle! My guess is that the 24mpg was obtained at a constant highway speed of 65mph, w/o so much as a downshift or acceleration attempt. Similar to the GTO, Transam, etc. with the 6 speed transmissions. Once you get on a gas a bit that # will drop down I'm afraid. Not that I'm complaining but let's be honest.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,325
    as will the EX35 and Dodge Challenger ... if the teaser in the survey from C&D is accurate.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I think that the Genesis will be tuned much more for luxury than the G8
    Don't believe so- or at least not if Hyundai is thinking the car is a Euro 'sports sedan' competitor. Of course Hyundai is the one that has the chutzpah to compare the Sonata to a 3 series.
    Since this is a G8 forum though - think it will be a big mistake if GM 'tunes' the car like a skateboard. It is a large heavy sedan and should play to those that need a big 'family' sedan but also has some fond memories of the 'muscle car' past. An older demographic (like me) for sure but also one that historically has shown to prefer the softer highway cruisers - one of the reasons why cos. like Toyota/Lexus sell so well in this country. If the G8 is that stiffly sprung 'skateboard' it will lose any chance it might have to appeal to the masses and will relegate itself more into the category of a low volume curiosity or 'speciality' car.
    Back on the subject of REAL gas mileage - the 300Cs ratings are one of the biggest jokes in the industry simply because DOD ,which is obviously designed to maximize things on a simple constant (and relatively low ) highway speeds still does not reflect the way we actually drive. It has nothing to do with what the G8 might do in a laboratory, but more to do with what happens when you actually use the accelerator - something that is hard to avoid in 350hp sedans! Don't believe the G8 V8 is going to anywhere close to say a M35 FE wise, more likely what the M45 does. It will be interesting to see what percentage of G8 buyers opt for the 3.6 V6 and FTM how many of the cars end up at the airport.
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    EPA mileage ratings changed pretty drastically for MY2008, supposedly to better reflect "real-life" driving. Complaints that the advertised mileage numbers were far from accurate (especially in hybrids) prompted adjustments in procedures and calculations used starting on MY2008 vehicles. As a result, I think 24 mpg highway is probably more accurate than you might think. My 2004 A4 GTO averaged 20 mpg in everyday driving (mostly rural highway and interstate, with maybe 20% in-town) and it was rated at 16/21 by the old, less-accurate system. Keep in mind the G8 has a 6-speed auto (reduces rpm at highway speeds) and AFM (I will admit I doubt it does anything at speeds over 65 mph). I don't think anyone said the V8 will get V6 economy, just that some V6 "sports-sedans" don't get much better. But, as they say, your mileage may vary... ;)
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    Based on everything I have read about the Holden Commodore, I don't think you have to worry about the G8 riding like a Z06 Vette. I believe it will (and should) have a firm ride similar to Impala SS or BMW 550i w/sport package. Reports are that it is more than competitive with BMW, MB, Audi, etc. in ride, handling and NVH (noise, vibration, harshness). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I firmly believe that Hyundia is squarely targeting Lexus (and Toyota) with Genesis, and not the German makes.
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    It will be in the APRIL issue of Car&Driver, not March. So we have another month or so to wait.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,526
    Perhaps you will be.
    Perhaps you will not.

    As posted, the EPA numbers ( and testing methodology ) are substantially changed for the 2008 Model Year.

    Here are some details:

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

    Of particular note in the G8 GT \ V8 context:

    “Beginning with 2008 models, three additional tests will be used to adjust the city and highway estimates to account for higher speeds, air conditioning use, and colder temperatures.”

    And:

    “High Speed: Represents city and highway driving at higher speeds with more aggressive acceleration and braking.”

    The EPA chart for “High Speed” included at the above link clearly shows speeds over 65 MPH & some “more aggressive” acceleration(s). Absolutely not a constant 65.

    Since ( again \ still ) we do not have any real world reports from actual drivers of production G8s, we can only speculate – and my speculation ( guess ) is based on the following, several specific numbers:

    Published GTO EPA numbers as they were at the time built.
    Published GTO EPA numbers as they would have been under 2008 MY testing.
    A comparison of known GTO & G8 trans. gearing \ final drive ratios & resulting RPM in highway cruising.
    The fact that DoD \ AFM is included on the G8.

    And the fact that although I do believe ( based on thousands of miles of driving a 2005 with ) GM’s DoD that the whole engine \ trans. \ final drive gearing and DoD calibration was specifically selected to maximize EPA MPG – to some detriment in the ‘real world’, for those ( like me ) who often drove at highway speeds above those included in the ‘old’ EPA test.

    Where the G8’s package is likely planned & implemented with the 2008 standards in mind. And highway speeds & acceleration rates more closely resembling what I often utilize, in my real world driving. I certainly hope so, at least.

    We shall see.
    - Ray

    Some GTO numbers:

    Pontiac GTO 8 cyl, 6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Premium
    Under 2008 standards \ tests would have been:

    A4 14 \ 19
    14 city
    19 hwy

    Actual stickers were:

    A4 16 \ 21
    16 city
    21 hwy

    The GTO had no DoD \ AFM.

    The GTO automatic was a 4 speed w/top ( fourth \ primary highway ) gear was 0.7:1:
    Overall ratio: 2.42:1 ( final drive ratio: 3.46:1 )

    G8 GT V8 A6 w/top ( sixth \ primary highway ) gear is 0.67:1:
    Overall ratio: 1.95:1 ( final drive ratio: 2.92:1 )
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,325
    they are so far ahead i can't even tell anymore. Aren't they shipping the June issues about now. ;b

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    GM’s DoD that the whole engine \ trans. \ final drive gearing and DoD calibration was specifically selected to maximize EPA MPG
    as it is on Chrysler's 300c as well - and it doesn't really work as 'advertised' on that car either - the car will not hold a reasonable highway speed with the DoD engaged or on any semblance of hilly terrain. 14/19 I'll believe (roughly what the 300 has been doing) it's the 24 that would require a 120 mph tailwind, or a really flat freeway that it is still possible to drive 60 on.
    DoD is nothing new BTW - those of us that have started to lose our hair will remember the Caddy V8-6-4s of the 80s that was a disaster and didn't last long. A 'gimmick' then - although the technology involved is certainly much more advanced - some things apparently never change.
  • No NAV, no bluetooth?

    What is this ......a 2003 model year G-8?

    You'd think GM with a brand new model would want to be on the leading edge of electronic design.....not on the lagging edge of a 5 year old typical GM "has been" vehicle.

    NAV and blue tooth have been an available feature on drivers' cars for years and both are typically commonplace.

    Obviously GM mgmt is still back in the 1990s and will always be blaming unions for their woes even the problem obviously is the CEO and managers that know nothing about what America wants.

    I have a a 2003 DTS with NAV and night vision which was a rarity at the time, even though NAV then was common place on Euro and Lexus cars. The Caddy salespeople at the time couldn't even demo it. They still have the mindset of 75 year olds in bench seats, and so does GM as it is still in the 1990s.

    I had considered this car because I wish to support the USA and purchase a contemporay high performance sedan ........ yet I'd now feel as though I'm regressing if I bought it. The problem with USA manufacturing are the incompetent corporate managers that are 20 years behind the times.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yup, Nav and bluetooth are pretty much standard fair these days. I'm really suprised at the G8. I want to like the car. We'll see if 09 has it. It's not like GM doesn't have touchscreen GPSs in their other cars, like the CTS or the GMC trucks.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • I agree that built-in navi should be provided.

    Perhaps GM is attempting to sell On-Star, except IMHO it is not a substitute for an effective Nav system especially when you consider the cost of a yearly subscription. Besides I prefer controlling what I want when I want it and not through an external voice system such as On-Star. I currently have built in nav in a Caddy and an external Magellan that I use in my truck and wife's car. The Magellan has fewer quirks and is much less costly than the built-in.

    Now you can buy a Magellan, etc. nav system that is just as functional as a OEM system for only $400. Actually it is far more functional as it can be used by the driver or passenger to query the system while the car is in motion. The downside to an add-on is that they normally don't have dead reckoning which tracks location by speed and gyroscope when a GPS signal isn't available as in a tunnel or in a city with tall buildings.

    If the mfrs want to protect against liability yet make their NAV functional then put an interlock in that allows the passenger weight on the seat to make the system operational when in motion. I despise having to stop my Caddy to use the NAV to find the nearest hotel or rest..
  • nojetsnojets Posts: 31
    Surrfurtom is right on. It's insane not to offer navigation and bluetooth options in 2008. The folks that buy cars like this are not elderly bumkins who get confused by a cell phone, they are engineering and gadget oriented enthusiasts for whom this stuff is important. It's all too symtomatic of the US automobile industry, and GM in particular. I doubt GM listens to this kind of feedback however.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I doubt GM listens to this kind of feedback however.

    Same old story...that's why the competition is killing them.

    Regards,
    OW
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'm not sure what anyone would need the dead reconning for. I live in Manhattan and both my Garmin and my PC based as well as the GPS in my Radar Detector all work in the deepest of Manhattans Canyons. The Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel has a GPS-retransmitter of sorts cause they work in there too. Generally if you are in a tunel there aren't exits (although I saw them in tunnels in Boston).

    I won't let the lack of GPS stop me from getting a car but it's just something that would make it a complete package IMO.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Of the G8 pace car during the Rolex 24 at Daytona. Nice looking car :)

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
This discussion has been closed.