Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





2008 Pontiac G8

1282931333442

Comments

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    If you always make the same car then yeah eventually you'll get it right.

    What's so bad about that? If you change models every three years you have to start all over and never get it right.

    Vette, Mustang, 3-series, Corolla, Civic.

    Regards,
    OW
  • I think you stand corrected. Honda, Toyota, Mercury & Lincoln are the standard for dependability (Again, only if you can get by your prejudices). All of which are fairly boring cars. I need low end grunt/torque & preferably RWD to have fun. Love to kick the rear-end out from time to time. My wife actually drives the G8 as a daily ride. It is not even a close substitute for the C5 vette. Maybe the GXP will fare better. One more feather in the American car makers caps is the tenacity to keep the smaller, lighter, simpler pushrod engine alive.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Honda and Toyota are a cut above Lincoln-Mercury, I'm afraid!

    The G8 is finally what will compete. Again, it's an import. The cars that will excited should have been developed as the 'Vette and Mustang. Home-grown Camaro and Challenger. It takes desperate times and finally these classics return.

    I wish you the best of luck with the G8 and your C5!

    Regards,
    OW
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    do we define toyota and honda as imports now that both the accord and the camry are built here in the US now??..even BMW builds their SUVs here in the US now.....so when do we blur the line...and no longer consider it an import....

    parts may be imported....but does point of assembly count more.....Im not so much worried about import vs domestic.....but the US manufacturers are still playing catch up...are making progress......but only time will tell
  • Which division did Mercedes sell off when times got tough??? Why do you want to ship a profit back to Japan every time they sell a Camry? Why is the UAW strangling our companies for better wages, health care and unheard off layoff packages, when we are not competitive now? At least the Holden plant is a subsidiary of GM much like our Toyota plants here are for Toyota. I like to see GM take a profit for the vehicles made and sold elsewhere. This benifits the US economy.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    What's so bad about that? If you change models every three years you have to start all over and never get it right.

    Vette, Mustang, 3-series, Corolla, Civic.


    No I mean the same car. The Ford Ranger has not changed at all in 15 years other than very minor tweaks. Same for the GM/CV. The Vette, Mustang, 3-series, Corolla, Civic have all changed a lot over the past 15 years, the chassis are different.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    do we define toyota and honda as imports now that both the accord and the camry are built here in the US now??..even BMW builds their SUVs here in the US now.....so when do we blur the line...and no longer consider it an import....

    parts may be imported....but does point of assembly count more.....Im not so much worried about import vs domestic.....but the US manufacturers are still playing catch up...are making progress......but only time will tell


    I agree, and more to the point why do we care so much about where a product is made, so long as the product is GOOD. I would buy a car from India or Ireland, or South Africa if the product was going to give me good value for my money. Be it "value" in terms of fun, or reliability or what not.

    With that said, let's try to keep this on the topic of the G8 rather than US v. Imports, there are lots of those topics we can carry this discussion on in.

    -mike
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    But the names mean something. The chassis are better and the cars are more reliable and therefore sell well.

    What is a G8?? Should have called it Grand Prix. It's almost as if they knew GP's were junk and didn't want to tarnish a good example of what Pontiac should have been making HERE IN THE US all along.

    Regards,
    OW
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Actually, the G8 replaced the Bonneville. The Grand Prix is still dredging along. :sick: Why? They have the G4, G6, G8. Why not throw in G5 for Vibe (or is there already a G5 and no G4? :confuse: ) and G7 for Grand Prix? Then call the Solstice the G1. Or, maybe, the G-whiz! :P
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    The G-whiz is owned by Infinity! :P

    Regards,
    OW
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    But the names mean something. The chassis are better and the cars are more reliable and therefore sell well.

    What is a G8?? Should have called it Grand Prix. It's almost as if they knew GP's were junk and didn't want to tarnish a good example of what Pontiac should have been making HERE IN THE US all along.

    Regards,
    OW


    Again, I repeat, what does it matter where or by who or by what name a car is? So long as it delivers "value" (whatever that value may be to an individual)?

    I guess the name itself could be the "value" but those folks who buy on name alone, are pretty shallow people to begin with. Guess that's why, although I like MB and BMW, I never really was able to get along with the other owners because a lot of them had bought for the name alone.

    -mike
  • It matters what the name plate is because even though Buick Cadillac jaguar Lincoln Mercury Toyota & Honda are tied in overall quality, some people in this thread make comments like

    "All cars designed and built in the U.S.A. by Ford, GM and Chrysler are of secondary quality. The foreign manufacturers, including GM-owned Holden show their quality in looks, driving feel and lasting quality far better."

    Yet the same person asks why GM doesn't make the G8 in America. The obvious answer: then prejudice people that don't believe the V6 Merc. Milan is much more reliable than a V6 Camry won't buy it.

    This is because they have owned a handful of old American cars and believe their test results on dependability is far superior and scientific than the thousands of surveys CR & JD powers conducted. What do you do with the phony expert.

    BTW, I both my vette & 94 Impalla SS are/were fun America vehicles
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    The market talks. I know nothing in comparison. The media loves Honda and Toyota. Where have you been?

    I posted this quote by Jack Welch on other forums which is appropriate at a time when the the Detroit 3 and the Financial Industry are experiencing hard times:

    "Change before you have to."


    The US manufactures are ridiculous!

    Watch the customers not me. When a product is good I buy it. When there is better, I follow.

    The G8 is good. I am not sure how much it will help GM since it is in limited supply so far.

    Regards,
    OW
  • The surveys were filled out by CUSTOMERS. They have spoken. CUSTOMERS that have perception issues would not buy an American nameplate even if in reality it was twice as reliable. Hondas & Toyota are all boring FWD vehicles with a false reputation of superior reliability. They are actually tied as I pointed out and proved to you several times now. Even a more reliable Fusion is more thrilling on a winding road than a Camry
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Here's one that you might find interesting:

    This survey shows CUSTOMER choice for 2008 MY vehicles. 18 out of 26 segment winners are:

    IMPORTS!
    That is why G8 is a great choice!

    2008 Motorist Choice Awards

    I did not participate!

    Regards,
    OW
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    I would rather have a Honda or toyota.

    Though I was impressed with the G8! I would drive a white one, it was quite fun to drive! I loved the size, I felt right at home.
  • I test drove the Camry side by side with the Fusion. The Camry is a boring old womans car. It is ok if you drive like my grandmother. I would rather have a RWD CTS, Chrysler, G8, etc. The Camry might be fine for you if you don't like curves and love torque steer. Another vehicle I tested and liked was the Cad STS.I can see you don't mind having 60% of the vehicle weight on the front tire and would probably like the Acura too.
  • Why is it late September, and the only 2009 model I see on Pontiac's website is a Vibe? There is no option to build a 2009 G8... What's up with that??? I have also heard there is no Manual transmission option on the GT this year, either. And you can have any interior color, as long as it's black. They are going to kill this car faster than the GTO!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I test drove the Camry side by side with the Fusion. The Camry is a boring old womans car. It is ok if you drive like my grandmother. I would rather have a RWD CTS, Chrysler, G8, etc. The Camry might be fine for you if you don't like curves and love torque steer. Another vehicle I tested and liked was the Cad STS.I can see you don't mind having 60% of the vehicle weight on the front tire and would probably like the Acura too.

    That is because you in particular put driving characteristics in the "value" column. I am a road race instructor, so I also put this in my value column, however, I absolutely understand that 90% of the car buying public don't care what name or how their car handles. They see them as an applicance that takes them from point A to point B at the best gas milage, least CELs, and least maintenance cost. That is the value that they want. These are the folks who buy accords, camarys, and the other cars you put down as being "boring". Unfortunately boring sells well. Especially right now when money is getting more scarece.

    As much as I refer to Cam/cord/altima as refrigirators to my non-car enthusiast friends they say "Yup, that's what I want". So "value" is very subjective however if Ford or GM or Chrysler sold a superior product with lower cost of ownership and more "value" then they would be outselling the Camcordtima 2-1. Why aren't they outselling them?

    -mike
  • Finally an excellent comment and question. The obvious answer is in this thread. I have stated nothing but facts in these in this thread. The V6 Camry is unreliable. Toyota has had many reliability issues as of late with the Camry, Tundra camshafts, etc. The 08 Camry I test drove had several rattles coming from what seemed the front struts. That is ignoring the fact that it was much less satisfying to drive in the twisties than the Fusion (took both cars side by side).

    The fusion, Milan, MKZ are very reliable. American vehicles are more reliable than vehicles from Europe. Mercury, Lincoln, Buick, Jaguar, & Cadillac are more reliable than Nissan, Infinity & Mitsubishi. Furthermore, they are tied on reliability with Honda, & Toyota. Yet look at all the stupid comments from posts in this Blog. The Pontiac is only reliable because it isn’t made here. Toyota & Honda are currently benchmarks for reliability. Cars built in Europe are built much better and reliable than American cars.

    Nobody seems to mention the vette ZO6 with its amazing 600HP pushrod engine. Or the Viper which is most likely exciting vehicle on the planet to drive fast. Even the G8 is a balanced RWD sedan with an American pushrod V8 built by a GM plant in Australia. The CTS V can run away from most of the competition. The large Chryslers have awesome hemi engines, etc and don’t fall of the road like an Avalon when the road is not perfectly straight. GMs large trucks are the most fuel efficient.

    Look at Acura. A supposedly high-end Honda that has 60% of its weight on the front tires. The first thing taught in racing school is to keep equal weight front to rear using gas and brakes. Acura charges the premium price like Mercedes, BMW, etc yet they serve up torque steer like no tomorrow. Step on the gas the front tires get lighter and lighter as all of the weight [non-permissible content removed] to the back of the car. The faster you accelerate the lighter the drive wheels get. This is what Japan gave us.

    One person in this blog thought he was an expert because he owned about 5-6 cars and thought his reliability test results were far superior to JD powers & Consumer Reports who send out thousands of surveys.

    Yet I just gave my last two American vehicles to my kids who just got their licenses. They both have over 150k miles. I also drove a Crown Vic 280k miles (original engine and transmission). Somebody registered it after me.

    Just look at all the crap in these posts made by “masters of misinformation”. If you believe the crap from these posts, American vehicles would have to be far superior to their foreign rivals to be rated equal because everyone wants to drive America into the ground. I can’t tell you how many engineers I worked with that wanted to see the only successful American company (Microsoft) torn apart for being a monopoly. The engineers would have felt much better if it was Sony.

    Let’s face it, if American cars are inferior you can see why. Look at all these careless error burdened posts made right here by the same Americans who may be designing are cars. How can you expect American’s who can’t even read and retain simple reliability studies accurately to design and build a decent car.

    And let’s not forget the dumbest American’s of all who work for the United Auto Unions and kept on striking for better insurance, higher wages, more breaks, more power and legacy layoff packages as their companies were going under because they could not compete with their foreign rivals that don’t carry all the legacy baggage. I believe the surcharge to pay these benefits to employees amounted to a $2500 per vehicle deficit over the foreign rivals.

    The G8 is an excellent car for the money It blows away Nissan, Toyota & Honda in most drivability tests while it serves up more room and maintains a decent ride.

    Enough said???
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Finally. The only car that is worth it's weight produced in the US is the Z06.

    As for the other comments, the G8 is great because it's not made here. Period. If it was, it would ride like a Grand Prix. It doesn't! Thank GOODNESS!

    The business model of the US manufacturers continues to drive them into sub-par desirability, and therefore sales follows.

    I am far below expert and so are all of the customers who are flocking to the Asians. ;)

    As far as the Germans, the performance blows away all but a few high end US halo cars. You don't drive a US car if you DESIRE TO DRIVE!

    BTW, the last time I saw dealers being built in my area, they ALL REPRESENTED FOREIGN MANUFACTURERS! It must be my imagination! :blush:

    Regards,
    OW
  • Nice posting. At least you did not misrepresent the initial quality study or the JD powers 4 year reliability study. Lets hope it is Honda or Toyota that comes up with the first good electric car. Or better yet, China. I just hope someday all of this affects your income. I seen a lot of American engineers cry when development went to India because their engineers were making 25K NOT 125k a year.

    And BTW, I am glad gas is @ $4 a gal because China is fighting us for it to produce products for lazy Americans that can't even read reliability studies accurately.

    I can't believe you think the UAW union with its hight paid & insured workers dis not affect the big three.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I guess you didn't see "Detroit's business model doesn't work"...that's the UAW included!

    Smile! :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • Many mistakes made in the past 30 years. Poor marketing and bad quality which started when we retooled to convert from RWD to FWD

    Many innovations too such as the minivan, SUV, even the first Antilock brakes in the old Tbirds & Lincolns.

    That said, it is inaccurate to say we do not produce reliable vehicles or all our vehicles are junk. I have read this over a 100 times in these postings and it just goes to show the uphill battle the big three face. Even when the reliability is equal American's keep trying to drive them to their grave. These same people don't have a clue. Some of them base their advise and decisions on a couple of old samples rather than thousands of surveys.

    I would still rather drive a big Chrysler, CTS, G8 or even a Lincoln Town car then a FWD Avalon. You may laugh, but I hate fighting a steering wheel during hard acceleration. Even Cadillac realized how wrong Japan was with this setup and changed all but one of its vehicles back to RWD. That is more than you can say for Honda's high-end Acura division.

    Furthermore, the G8 has a American pushrod V8 which makes it lighter, smaller in physical size, more torque & most importantly it has a lower center of gravity than OHC engines.

    The G8 was produced by GM, be it the Holden division and really doesn't have much competition from Japan which produces mostly appliances at that price point.

    Better yet when a vehicles is sold the profit stays in America NOT Japan.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    And all this has to do with the G8 how? Seriously if this doesn't get back on topic, I'll take actions to close this thread guys.

    -mike
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,014
    Gee, I thought I was the host here?! :confuse: Yep, my name is at the top of the page as Host. :P And no, I won't be closing it down, but I am going to insist that derogatory comments about the intelligence of other members in this discussion cease immediately.

    Thanks for your future cooperation!

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • yak54yak54 Posts: 72
    Anyone know why there seems to be no star ratings from crash test for the G8?

    Thanks
  • dhampdhamp Posts: 8
    Unfortunately, in our fickle society, the name of a car means a whole lot. I never knew how true this was until the whole Ford Five Hundred-Taurus fiasco. What a load! You won't by a 500, but you'll by the exact same car with a Taurus name plate and a different grille?? Senseless. Another example is how I constantly hear people saying that they wouldn't spend over 30-grand for a HYUNDAI, because they can't get beyond the crap that Hyundai put out in the beginning. Look at the car and the service people! Not the nameplates!

    Unfortunately, the GP, like many other cherished namesakes in the American car industry, has lost it's luster over the years. The majority of people under 35 or so hear Gran Prix and think of those years of unrefined powertrains and gaudy plastic that Pontiac slapped on every doggone thing. They don't think of the big-block, six-pack variations that were awesome! They needed to come out with new names to break from the history that's etched in so many minds. Plus, I think they sound sportier than Bonneville or Gran Prix. IMO, GTO, Z28, 350Z, 911.......they just sound better. :)

    Now, I grew up in a GM household, mainly Olds, Buick, and Chevys. My dad still has the '70 Chevelle SS 396 that he bought in '72 OR '73. My 1st two cars were a '64 Impala (327 Turbo-fire) and a '78 Cutlass (305-V8 4-barrel). After my beautiful Cutlass was totalled (rear-ended on the way to school one morning), I got a Honda Accord hatchback. I was elated--probably because most of the upper class kids drove [non-permissible content removed] cars and I liked the manual tranny for dumping the clutch. I put a 180k on it before selling it to a former neighbor who continued driving it for many years. I think bought a Mazda 626 which I sold with 247k miles on it. Next I bought a '96 Maxima which I just sold a year ago with just under 250k miles on it and, other than a starter, radiator, and temp sensor, I never did more than scheduled maintenance on it. All of them were in good running condition when I sold them. All this to say that I've been on of those, "I like how some of the US cars look, but I'll always by Japanese" people....until recently.

    The US has always had a car here or there that I would "take a chance and buy", like the Marauder, '94-'96 Impala SS, and GTO. I just tend to put a lot of miles on a car and I've been spoiled by my Japanese models, so I have to feel that I can get 200k on a car w/out problems before I buy it. I broke down (bad choice of words)and bought a Ford Exploder.....oops! I mean Explorer...... because we were starting a family and wanted the room. MISTAKE! Including the transmission that crapped out around 80k, I spent waaaaay more in repairs in the 4 years we had it than I spent in 9 years of owning my Maxima, so we dumped it and got an Infiniti for my wife to drive. Couldn't be happier with that.

    I personally am a Nissan guy, and still drive a Maxima. HOWEVER, I love the G8. I was planning on getting an Infiniti M after my current Maxima, but if the first few years prove them to be reliable and sturdy, I'm about 80% sure that will be my next car. It invokes the same classic, big, muscle car feeling that are reminiscent of "the good ol' days" like the '95 Impala SS, but does so in a MUCH better package. The interior and ride quality are light years ahead of past efforts, and are world-class. WAY TO GO PONTIAC!!! Now, if we could just get a comparable RWD Chevy.......
  • cracoviancracovian Posts: 337
    It's called "Camry" - not that heard to spell. I don't own it but we almost bought the hybrid instead of the van; it was just too small but Lexus-like refined and exciting (though no V8, sub-200 HP American-style V6 or optional ABS here). Not sure what you mean by "boring" but isn't Fusion or Malibu in the same appliance category? People still buy the Toyota because, say whatever you want, long term reliability is much higher and the resale value rocks. Have you seen interiors on the Accord and Altima? They're some of the best in business and compare that to Fisher Price shiny plastics (excluding the G8 obviously) on Pontiacs and Chevys. And we're giving them $25 billion to make more of this crap, cut more corners and move even more of their production to China. It makes me sick.

    BTW, I'm really hoping for some good GM card promotions in December (like the 5K for my GTO in 2004) As much as I love our good ole' Trooper, a nice G8 instead (and for cheap) will be a good way to prop up the Australian economy and put Exxon back on track :)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ...and compare that to Fisher Price shiny plastics (excluding the G8 obviously)...

    I thought that, too, until I sat in one. I was so disappointed. :cry: The design is nice, but the materials... And when I opened the glove box, my face melted! :surprise: :sick:
This discussion has been closed.