Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





2008 Pontiac G8

1333436383942

Comments

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    That's the issue. If the U.S. Auto industry wants to sell cars, they need to make the buying experience enjoyable, not a cage match just to get a fair deal. I can negotiate better by walking out and dealing with a company with a better car AND fair pricing strategy.

    When I saw the MAP price the dealers added to the G8, it proves even a great car's sales potential can be ruined by the greed prevalent in the supply chain. If they want return customers, try fairness and watch buyers flock to good product.

    All I needed to do to get my new '08 CR-V was to negotiate like a gentleman over the internet with 5 dealers and then giving the winning bidder the business. That's how I work. No "head bashing" needed.

    Regards,
    OW
  • I would rather enjoy the rumble and feel the torque of the 6 liter than have somebody insist somebody hold my hand while I purchase a car. Bottom line, I got what I wanted, you quit because of lack of negotiation skills. Glad you are not running an American company. You would just throw your hands up and quit upon the first crisis.

    I will try asking this again, what is it that you do for work??? Don't you ever deal with people?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Haaa, you are a riot. If folks have to "fight" for a good price on their cars, most folks like myself, feel that the customer is the person who should be catered to, not the other way around and will go to a place that offers them what they want.

    For you, you enjoy fighting with a salesperson. I enjoy it to a certain extent, however when they are not willing to negotiate, and are quite rude, it shows me how the company which I am about to "invest" in conducts buisness.

    Have fun when it comes time to "fight" with the service writers on any repairs (and all mechanical products will need repairs eventually).

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • The government is not going to let the auto industry go. We can't afford to. You obviously don't understand politics. Both the senate and congress got a taste of the UAW arrogance. This is just a political game.

    Again, I ask what is it that you do for work???????????????????????????

    I enjoy the fight. As a matter of fact I negotiated below sticker for my G8. No markup even though a lot of dealers were marking them up at the time. I am confident I could put have gone into the same dealer after you and talked them down.

    I have bought more cars for more people than you can imagine. People seek me out all the time to handle their negotiations. I have puchased over 30 new vehicles for myself alone(I enjoy driving).

    I take pride in my work and always strive for best results possible. I do my homework prior to walking in a dealership. You may think this sounds like bragging but believe me it is not. It is just the kind of American I am. Being able to negotiate is the result of working hard all of my life and very rarely quitting when the going gets tough. Most of the time the salesman will hand me of to a manager or even owner as soon as the negotiation period starts. Usually after 5 minutes of chat. Sometimes I lock a vehicle and price in with just a phone call and a credit card.

    Again, I purchased what I wanted. I would have loved to go into the same dealers after you failed. Putting egg on peoples face is my specialty. That is how you climb the ranks in non-union American companies. You need to out shovel your peers.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    How much DID you pay?

    They had come down well below sticker on the cars I'm talking about. However they did not come down to the price level that I felt the car was worth given the current conditions.

    I'm sure you didn't pay $26k for your car, which is what, to me the car is worth at the present time. $30k is well below sticker, so if you want to talk about getting it below sticker, we both would have gotten it below sticker.

    I was a commodities trader, Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium. I deal with people all day long. Making deals on Millions and Millions of dollars of precious metals every day.

    I also own my own businesses and didn't get to where I am by not being a good negotiator. However when one has hit up several dealers and not a single one will budge, a smart person know's when to fish or cut bait.

    Similar to folks who were holding stock up at the top of the market, I'm sure they were just as cocky as you are. They are now crying that they didn't get out....

    I haven't signed on the dotted line yet, so you find me a G8GT fully loaded (Premium, Roof, Sport) for $26k out the door + Tax (8.0% in my area) and you may have just helped GM get a sale.

    :)

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Actually, that is what I do. Motivate and develop my staff over many years in 3 different companies. Oh yes, and developed very successful negotiating techniques over the years. I always get me price for every car I've purchased.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I paid below Edmunds TMV for my ride. You?

    Regards,
    OW
  • Your problem paisan is that you don't know how to research which is probably why you can't afford the G8. See the list price, dealer invoice and TMV of the G8 you described below. You expect GM to sell you a balanced RWD V8 vehicle with a 33k dealer invoice for 26k. Yet Honda, Toyota and Nissan will sell you a FWD shitbox (that has 60% of the vehicles weight over the front tires) a torque starved V6, and plenty of torque steer for roughly the same price. And you are blaming the American dealers for not taking 7k LOSS to sell you the vehicle???

    You are one of them. You should get a job as a UAW so you can afford the G8. All this talk about the American car dealers not giving you a fair deal. I HOPE EVERYONE READS PAISAN'S previous posts and realizes his foolishness. AGAIN, PAISON IS TRYING TO PURCHASE A 33K dealer invoice RWD V8 vehicle for 26K (7K LOSS) and he is blaming the dealership for not being reasonable. I DON"T THINK I CAN SAY THIS ANY LOUDER. PLEASE READ PAISAN'S PREVIOUS POSTS SO HE IS DISCREDITED ON HIS NEGATIVE WORDS ABOUT THE AMERICAN DEALERS AND CAR COMPANIES.

    EDMUNDS --- G8 List, dealer invoice, TMV
    Total with Options $34,990 $32,787 $33,587

    I think I am done here. PAISAN, I thought it would be fun sparing with you but now I realize you are just out of touch. You should really rethink your profession too. I invested in GOLD years ago. Gold has trailed just about every other investment you could have made for the last 30 years. And I have the 30 year old coins to prove it. Maybe I can put in a word to the UAW union to get you in.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Hopefully, only the American dealers that treat customers right survive...not the ones you need to hold ransome to get a fair price.

    The G8 is fine but it's still an American car whose value will deteriorate $7k as you drive it off the lot.

    Here's the RTS price.

    Mr.P, I'll bet you paid more!

    2008 Pontiac G8 Sedan

    MSRP:

    $29,995.00
    Red Tag Price:

    $29,044.46
    Total Cash Back:

    $4,000.00
    Your Price:

    $25,044.46*
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Well you see, I can afford it, heck I can go out and buy it cash so that's not the issue.

    You obviously haven't read my posts carefully.

    In the current market conditions, where most dealers are giving the cars away to move inventory and make a sale. Now if this were a "regular" car market, then yes, my $26k offer on a $30k car would seem odd. However, a low offer in a bad market, where as OW pointed out will lose it's value at a much greater rate than any of it's contemporaries. Not to mention what good is a warranty if the company is bancrupt to begin with? Even if GM survives which it will, Pontiac will be just like Oldsmobile, long gone within a few years. So as a trader and investor, I would be pretty dumb to invest into a company/brand/etc that is on the verge of going out of business!

    On a side note, you have also not read my posts because no where do I ever mention anything about a FWD car. I've never owned a FWD car (ok, well that one Ford Escort for 2 months in 1994) so you won't see me over on the Honda/Toyota lot.

    On the same day that I entered the Pontiac dealers, I also visited Infiniti, Subaru and a few other makes. Each of those I have given a "low ball" offer to, but the way in which it was received was far different, each of those came back with a reasonable counter offer, and have subsequently(sp?) called me up to try to reach a deal. That is professionalism, not the arrogance that I was met with from several Pontiac Dealers.

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,514
    .. I am happy with my G8 GT.
    I am happy with the Deal.
    - Ray
    Happy, happy, happy.....
  • Ray, I couldn't be happier with the G8 myself. A buddy of mine purchased a WRX STi. He quoted all kinds of ridiculous 0-60 times, handling numbers, braking distances, etc. I fixed him by taking it for a ride, only I brought my stopwatch. As it turns out, testers achieved the glories numbers with the WRX by revving the engine to redline while proceeding to dump the clutch. They rely on AWD and a wound up elastic band to achieve a good 0-15MPH time and then the wimpy 4 banger proceeds to carry through to 60. The car sounds like it is going to fall apart when you dump the clutch. Well my buddy could never achieve close what the magazines posted. As a matter of fact one magazines admitted that the car was faster with the smaller tires. Others said it was faster on slippery surfaces. The idea was not to slow the engine down too much after dumping the clutch because it has no torque what so ever in the lower RPM (4 cyl, turbo) )range. Other things to note about the STi is the cheap feeling interior, economy car looks and crappy gas mileage for a torqueless 4 cylinder and poor stopping distances.

    I was miles ahead of him when he thought he could take on my C5 on the highway. I am sure the G8 would produce similar results.

    So you are happy because you bought a V8 RWD vehicle for around 30k that is built and drives more like a BMW & Mercedes than a cheap economy car with a 4 CYL turbo. Seriously, there is such a difference in feel between the two cars. It is like night and day. Only one of the vehicles delivers consistent pull at any speed which is what you get when you opt for the V8.

    Bottom line, I would have given GM an extra 10k to not have to settle for a 4 CYL that drinks gas like an 8.

    I think Paisan has been writing GM and recommending they put a 4 CYL tubo in the GXP and Z06 and also to increase the stopping distances so he can pay 26k for it.

    The G8 is an excellent value for the money. In my opinion it competes with cars costing 10k more.

    Just one more comment. The prices Paisan quoted for a fully loaded g8 are plain wrong. Loaded a 2008 lists for about 33k and the 2009 lists for about 35k. I purchased both an 08 and a 09. the 30k price for the 09 is stripped. I priced it on several websites and I have my original window stickers. Some people are masters of missinformation. And he is doing it so he can drive the country into the ground.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,011
    I was going to move a lot of the posts from this past weekend over to Auto News Do you favor a government loan to the Big 3?, but decided that one is going off the charts with postings and adding the off topic posts from here would be too confusing. However, if you wish to contemplate the future of America's auto industry, it should be in the Auto News forum and not here.

    Happy hoidays and thanks for your future cooperation!

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,514
    Clearly, one can choose whatever one would like to spend your $$s on. For whatever reasons make sense to you.

    The Impreza WRX STi seems rather a stretch to compare with a G8 GT, but whatever . . .
    [ G8 wheelbase is almost a foot longer!
    Length almost 2 feet longer !!
    G8 is approx. 500 pounds heavier.
    Etc.
    These are enormous differences! ]

    And if you really want AWD and a manual trans, clearly the G8 is a non-starter.

    Even if the acceleration numbers ( with comparable launch techniques ) are reasonably close – the character of the driving experience is likely very different than a G8 GT. I am just really surprised that if either one really appeals to you – the other one does, too. Seems very odd, to me.

    [ I do not want or need the complexity of AWD, and I have no desire for a manual trans – so the Subaru never was even on my radar. ]

    If that is what you want – best of luck!

    - Ray
    Enjoy!
  • You know, I'm shocked at your outlook on dealerships and what they should be giving you when most the guys are starving right now. Just because the auto business is in trouble doesn't mean it is going away, even with a bankruptcy. With all your chest banging, I'd think you would know that. Nevertheless, as a sales associate at a dealership who sells the car in question, you are dreaming. These guys are commission only. You know what they make if they sell a new car right now??? If they are lucky, about 100 bucks. How many cars do you think they are selling right now? Take a wild freaking guess.

    And you want a deal??? Unbelievable. If you want a deal, buy a used g8 gt. with 15,000 to 17,000 miles; they are going for about 23k.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,326
    Karen: It has been interesting to read the [non-permissible content removed] tats because it confirms my 40 year belief that the cheapest screws out there are Preachers, Teachers, & Engineers.

    The above three occupations were always so self centered, self important, and always knew my product better than I, or so they thought.

    They took the most of my time, but after I sold them on my product, they stayed with me for years and we have become friends and are now labled as "good stewards of their Christian tithe".

    Previous posts subjects: Pontiac and Subaru

    Subaru spelled backwards= You are a bus and

    P O N T I A C = "Poor old Norwegian thinks its a Cadillac" :)
  • #1082 of 1083
    Paison by cwonder
    Dec 22, 2008 (1:21 pm)

    Replying to: rayainsw (Dec 22, 2008 10:07 am)
    You know, I'm shocked at your outlook on dealerships and what they should be giving you when most the guys are starving right now. Just because the auto business is in trouble doesn't mean it is going away, even with a bankruptcy. With all your chest banging, I'd think you would know that. Nevertheless, as a sales associate at a dealership who sells the car in question, you are dreaming. These guys are commission only. You know what they make if they sell a new car right now??? If they are lucky, about 100 bucks. How many cars do you think they are selling right now? Take a wild freaking guess.

    And you want a deal??? Unbelievable. If you want a deal, buy a used g8 gt. with 15,000 to 17,000 miles; they are going for about 23k.


    In my neck of the woods, I can pick up a 2008 G8 GT with under 20,000 miles for less than 20k.

    I will have to wait, however, because 96% of them are former rental cars, which I definitely will not buy given that they've been beat on.

    I'm sure if I wait a year, 16k for an under 26,000 miles or so G8 GT will be more than possible.
  • Gold commodities have been a loosing proposition for years. The only thing that has under performed gold in the last 30 years is the US auto industry. What you have to ask yourself is how would Paison would handle the situation if a prospective customer offered to buy gold off of him at a loss?

    Picture it: you work really hard 40-50 hours a week barley squeaking by and somebody walks into your place of business and calls you an arrogant American because you won't sell him an ounce of bullion $750.

    His argument is "times are tough", take it or leave it.

    This country is going to the dogs because of the way we treat it. Paison is the typical American that tries every thing he can to take down his own country with ignorance. How many Americans know that Fords quality is equal to Toyota and Honda and actually surpasses Nissan. How many Americans know that American vehicles have surpassed vehicles made in Europe on quality for years. What is the gain to scare people into thinking American cars fall apart when it isn't true anymore? Some people just love to hear themselves talk; Right or wrong.

    I have heard every engineer joke out there but engineers strive for accuracy by research. If they don't, believe me a peer will and put egg all over your face in front of your team and manager. Thats how you get ahead.

    I once argued with my wifes uncle for two hours trying to convince him that a Cadillac CTS or even a G8 may be an alternate vehicle to his Acura TL. He has purchased Acuras for years now. He started to get mad and said the conversation is over because we would never come to agreement. This is the killer. Both his TL and the G8 were parked outside in the parking lot. Have I driven a TL before, YES. Has he ever driven a CTS or G8, NO.

    I couldn't believe he just assumed he was right with just perception backing his argument. Myself, the first thing I would have done is asked to try the G8.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Could be he had an American car fall apart on him in the last few years. Just like me.

    It's a shame nice people work for dealers and manufacturers who carry inferior products. The market place weeds them out sooner or later. Just like the folks who bought too much on credit. It catches up.

    Was it OK that I priced a G8 GT in August and it had a $3,000 MAP price tacked on to the sticker price? All's fair in Love and War, my friend. The tables have turned and it's a buyer's market now. I LOVE IT!

    Regards,
    OW
  • Could be he had an American car fall apart on him in the last few years.


    Was it a Camry???? I know Toyota was on Consumer reports unreliable (NOT RECOMMEND) list for a couple of years. Test drove one myself for my niece, we couldn't get by the crunches we heard from the front suspension. She opted for the much more reliable Ford Fusion.

    Did you two buy an American made Camry??? Or did you by a Tundra and have a cam shaft failure???
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Could be he had an American car fall apart on him in the last few years. Just like me.

    It's a shame nice people work for dealers and manufacturers who carry inferior products. The market place weeds them out sooner or later. Just like the folks who bought too much on credit. It catches up.

    Was it OK that I priced a G8 GT in August and it had a $3,000 MAP price tacked on to the sticker price? All's fair in Love and War, my friend. The tables have turned and it's a buyer's market now. I LOVE IT!

    Regards,
    OW


    Several American cars have fallen apart on me. The dealers are cocky, and don't understand "customer service", and hence why I personally wouldn't buy one unless the price was reflective of said build quality.

    You guys can spout numbers, and what not, but just like anything in life, perception is reality, and American car companies are percieved to be of lower quality. Kinda like that girl in school who got around, no matter how much of a "new leaf" she has turned, it's hard to shake a bad rep.

    I'm no fan of FWD cars, so the Camcordima doesn't really phase me.

    As for comparing 0-60 or rolling start straightline highway numbers of an STi to a RWD V8 is kinda dumb. However throw in some twisties and some elevation changes and those brembo brakes, awd and handling would definitely out-drive the G8.

    For those who are curious, this is my 3rd car, hence why the G8, STi, and a lot of other cars are in the running for my $. My 05 LGT does my daily driving, my 04 Armada tows my cigarette boat, and has gotten a ton of props from the guys towing with Ford/GM/Dodges at the boat ramps...

    Anyway, I'm done with this discussion, as it's both off topic and circular reasoning, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the quality of american v. foreign cars.

    Hopefully GM/Ford/Chrysler can pull out of this, as I'd love nothing more than to buy a car that is high quality at a good price...

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I bought a Yukon Denali which is up to $3,6000 worth of repairs in 6 years. What a joke.

    No more GM, that's for certain.

    Regards,
    OW
  • Hi, no offense here, but I have to disagree with you on the "customer service" area of your comment. I have owned/leased/had daily access to over 20 vehicles, mostly GM, 1 Toyota and 1 Honda, and had more difficulty getting problems resolved with the foreign makes than the GM cars combined.

    Also, I just purchased a G8, and love it. Depending on your tastes it makes a great car. I also got 26% off of sticker price on a new '09. That totaled about $7900 off. Plus, I love the car, did I mention that. Hopefully GM will be around long enough to handle any unforeseen needs down the road. I would hate to see them or either other make fail. It is truly sad.
  • bought a Yukon Denali which is up to $3,6000 worth of repairs in 6 years. What a joke.

    No more GM, that's for certain.

    Regards,
    OW

    Well you had better stay away from the impreza STI too if reliability is top on your list.The Suby is rated ONLY AVERAGE for 07 & 08 according to Consumer reports.

    It falls short in Paint/Trim and Squeaks & rattles. Transmission troubles also plagued some of the older models.

    The squeaks and rattles I can attest to on the model I drove. Again, pop the clutch and listen to what is happening. You would have to be deaf to buy that car after trying that out.

    On the other hand the cheap Ford Fusion should be at top of your list if reliability is important as it received "Much Better Than Average" in CR for 07 & 08.

    The G8 is one of the tightest vehicles I have every owned. Absolutely no squeaks and rattles on any of the 4 models I have driven

    Squeaks and rattles are a big turn off to me. It seems that the STI is better suited for someone who can't hear (squeaks and rattles) or see (poor paint & trim). These issues are mostly impossible to fix.

    As far as AWD vs RWD for me it is a matter of fun and being practical. I think you can change the track around and get AWD to beat just about any RWD. That said, I drive on the street where I think RWD is more fun, plus it allows a for better a better fuel economy/acceleration compromise. It is also more reliable (all things being equal.

    It is interesting to see the 09 ZO6 go up against GT-R. Again, I think the test track can sway the results one way or the other.

    Another item I refuse to give up is neck snapping torque. STI is not even an option.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I am glad the G8 reports are good so far. It is the first car in years that lives up to an form of excitement for GM. Too bad it was too little too late. The mark of quality and high price finally bit them in the end.

    AWD is an option that works well. That's why it sells. I saw a video where a Carrera S lost to a C4S. All things being equal, it is very usable for AWD to help drivers keep control. RWD is way for fun.

    Regards,
    OW
  • It is just me? Shouldn't the top of the line G8 offer Nav as an option? Tremendous oversight for those who travel extensively for business. RWD, great motor, good looking inside and out with no Nav......I know you can get a Garmin, etc for less but who wants the wires running all over the place. Hard to beat a factory look for Nav. Had a '96 Bonneville and loved it. Ran it 75K in two years (company paid mileage penalty) and bought it off lease for the wife. She ran it to 122K with no major problems. Small aggravating things from time to time, yes. 3.8L ran well and handling was a bit sporty for a full size car. I lost interest in Pontiac till the G8. No Nav is a deal breaker. I will keep running my Honda till 200K hopefully until domestic car business shakes out. Cheers!
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,514
    I have found the OnStar "Turn-by-turn" with
    approaching turns displayed in the DIC to be all I need...

    As always, YMMV.
    - Ray
    Happy @ 1,800 miles & counting....
  • Finally, no argument here. The G8 should have a Nav system and most importantly a bluetooth sync system such as fords Microsoft deal. I have top of the line garmim with bluetooth and voice commands. The bluetooth speaker/mic couldn't hold a candle to the onstar phone system in the G8. I never use the Garmin, but I really like using the hands free Onstar phone.

    That said the garmin does traffic, weather, stock, news, etc. It also has a wireless remote that attaches to the steering wheel. Still, GM should offer the Nav and sync.

    16k miles on two G8s, very happy for the money.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    I think the new G8 is an example of what they could accomplish across the board. I think it will be a strong contender. It is a great start. But, with GM and its problems now, it will leave a lasting impression on future buyers. Consumers will not let GM live this down for a long time. I too, will more than likely not be back to GM after I am through with my 08. They will really have to up their game to win me over. I don't feel that I should have to pay over $40k for a GM car to get the quality that should be on all of their cars. Not aimed on the GM, more towards the CTS. That is a real issue.
  • I agree, the G8 is a fine car. It really shows that America can do it. They need to make it lower price, reliable, and as good if not better than BMW in a nutshell.
This discussion has been closed.