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2008 Pontiac G8

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The BMWs are great cars, but they come at a significant cost. I still don't understand how or why we are even comparing the G8 which costs SIGNIFICANTLY less than any BMW to it.

    As for the original SHO, it's still a great car, and I hate Ford with a passion.

    -mike
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Like I stated a few postings back..Extra Money in My bank Account...where "my" is the same as "dealer"
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    The BMWs are great cars, but they come at a significant cost. I still don't understand how or why we are even comparing the G8 which costs SIGNIFICANTLY less than any BMW to it.

    Probably because Pontiac themselves are making that comparison in their advertising. They are inviting the comparison. They aren't marketing it as a muscle car (ala Charger), they're marketing it as a true sports sedan, competing with BMW, MB, Infinity, etc. And it's also valid because for the G8 to be a success, GM needs to realize their old mindset is not going to work, if they want to build a true RWD sports sedan, and compete in that market.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    It ain't only us...many of the rags started that before the thing even hit the port.

    It actually is beyond compare. It's not a luxury performance sedan like 5series or A6 or even CTS.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    And it's also valid because for the G8 to be a success, GM needs to realize their old mindset is not going to work, if they want to build a true RWD sports sedan, and compete in that market.

    They can't in the US. That's why it's imported. The CTS is the first one that even comes close. Still no cigar! Well, except for the V version. Funny how if you WANT something bad enough, it can be done.

    Regards,
    OW
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    But the price is sooo different than the BMW that it's ridiculous. Anyone who has half a brain knows that a Pontiac is not going to compete with a BMW, for 1/2 the price.

    What if BMW had to sell the 550i/560i at $32k MSRP? I'd like to see what they'd come up with on that budget.

    It's like sending me to the fish market to get Sushi grade fish but only giving me enough money for fish that would go into a fish-stick!

    $ for $ you aren't going to find another car out there that can hold it's own against the G8, even a comparably equipped Charger is $6k higher.

    -mike
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    Pontiac/ Cadillac dealership, which had been in business for 22 years, closed its doors just yesterday three blocks from my home. (Hint: I live in an affluent near northwest suburb of Chicago in which Hillary Clinton grew up.)

    No prior notice to customers, all inventory was apparently hauled away overnight except for some SRXs and six Escalades, that GM and its bank can't get rid of.

    I guess they couldn't sell enough G8s, CTSs, SLR-Vs (they had one forever in their showroom) and Solstices to stay in business.

    Haven't driven a Pontiac since my brother's last Grand Am with the terrific Quad Four (which leaked and burned oil like a sieve) back in my college days.

    Yesterday, however, I did drive a loaner 2008 Infiniti G35, while my G35 coupe was in for routine maintenance. I can tell you, for money similar to the G8 GT, (they are giving 18% discounts to cash customers) the new G35 is a quality product that is indeed fortified with stones. Powerful brakes. Returned 28 mpg on the freeway at an 80 mph cruise. And available with AWD for a relative pittance. All in all a classy, sporty car.

    BTW if BMW didn't spend the money to develop all the technologies like ABS, VDC, DTSC and Direct Injection, which it licenses to GM and other car manufacturers, or didn't bother to include them in its products then BMW cars would certainly cost less then they do. It's not that BMW cannot build cars more inexpensively. BMW realizes its loyal customers don't want an inexpensively designed and built product.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    I agree the G8 is a bargain. The point is it's the only competent sports sedan GM makes in that price range. So for cars it's Malibu, G8 and CTS...and some small tin cans with stamped out 4IC's with no soul.

    That is why I tested the G8...value. I need to try the GT. Gas mileage is no concern because the differenc over 70K miles can't even make a small dent in the price difference of a BMW. Even the 3 series.

    Agree it beats all comp hands down for the money. Period. My comparo simply was from what I drive now vs. the GT. I could still see me buying this car.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,496
    Well, I will not dispute that 3995 is more weight than I had hoped.
    But.
    The G35 ( I do expect that others will see this model as a G8 GT competitor – though I see the M45 as closer in many respects ) does weigh less than the G8 V8. It has a 300HP V6. It has posted acceleration numbers very similar to the G8 GT’s numbers:
    R&T tested the latest G35 vs the new CTS and posted 5.3 and 13.8 @ 102.9.
    The G8 GT tested in R&T posted 5.0 and 13.5 @ 104.9.
    If you stop reading here, the G35 does seem roughly equivalent.
    [ Though 3 tenths and 2 MPH really are significant. ]

    But.
    The G35 has a 5 speed automatic. And a final drive ratio of 3.69:1.
    Top gear ( fifth ) is 0.84:1.
    Thus, RPM at 60 is 2550 – and at 70 to 80 ( where I spend as much of my highway cruising time as speed limits, traffic & prudence allows ) the RPM run 3000 to 3400.

    The RPM at 60, 70 and 80 in the G8 GT, from the R&T and C+D tests, shows roughly:
    60 = 1550
    70 = 1800
    80 = 2050
    Point being, the G35’s aggressive gearing & 5-speed automatic result in good ultimate \ absolute acceleration, and good ‘feel’ at WOT, but at the expense of rather higher RPM at cruise. [ Not that their V6 won’t turn those RPM. ] And returns ( according to the “new & improved” 2008 EPA numbers ) exactly the same MPG in highway driving as the G8 GT.

    Size matters?

    One primary reason that the G8 is heavier than the G35 is the size of the G8:

    Wheelbase G35 = 112.2 G8 = 114.8
    ( does 2 and a half inches matter – to you? )
    Overall G35 = 187.0 G8 = 196.1 ( almost a foot longer )
    Trunk G35 = 13.5 cu ft G8 = 17.5 ( a really big trunk, that . . )
    Width G35 = 69.8 G8 = 74.8
    ( likely more interior \ shoulder room – if that matters )

    As always, I am not suggesting that any of these differences mean anything to any particular, individual buyer. But the difference in size certainly has an impact on weight. And the gearing ( plus 5 speed vs 6 speed trans. gears ) has an impact on both acceleration & fuel mileage.

    And a few minutes on the Infiniti web site indicates to me that the G35 Sedan w/Sport ( w/LSD, etc ) starts at approx. $35K – where the G8 GT starts at $30K even.
    With V8, LSD, 18” wheels & tires ( 19” = only +$600), six speed automatic, etc.
    Comparing MSRPs, that’s about 15% less for a G8 GT. $5,000 is “Real money”, at least to me.

    If the quarter mile time & weight are the only criteria ( for you ) . . . that’s certainly OK.

    I also look at many other aspects of any car . . .
    And a big honkin’ V8, with great steaming piles of Torque, at any RPM, and able to cruise at ( what to me feel like ) very relaxed RPM are attractive. To me.
    [ G35 TQ = 268, G8 GT = 385 ]

    I expect that one primary reason for the weight of the G8 is that it was designed to have a V8. And the G35 was never designed with a V8 in mind.
    The Infiniti sports sedan that IS available with a V8, the M45 ( & M35 w/V6 ) is actually very close to the G8 in weight. Size \ weight below. MSRP of the M45 now starts at roughly $50K. And the EPA rating is 16 \ 21.

    And the new Caddy CTS ( currently only available with 2 different 3.6L V6s, but designed to accommodate the S/C V8 in the 2009 CTS-v ) is almost exactly the same weight as the G8 V8.

    To be clear here, I have respect for the G35 – have test driven a couple, and found them to be a compelling package. IF their specific attributes appeal. I find ( for example ) the effortless feel of the G8 GT’s V8 to be much more seductive & rewarding in my typical driving than the G35’s V6.

    “. . .for money similar to the G8 GT, (they are giving 18% discounts to cash customers) the new G35 is a quality product that is indeed fortified with stones. Powerful brakes. Returned 28 mpg on the freeway at an 80 mph cruise. And available with AWD for a relative pittance. All in all a classy, sporty car.”

    18% off? Interesting.

    If AWD is desired ( or a requirement ) then clearly the G8 is a non-starter.

    Carry on. . .
    - Ray

    M45:
    WB 114.5
    Length 192.6
    Trunk 14.9
    Weight 4010
    EPA 2008 16 \ 21

    = = =

    M45 test R&T June 2005:
    0 – 60 5.3
    Quarter 13.8 @ 101.4
    60 MPH = 2,300 RPM
  • nojetsnojets Posts: 31
    It was pulled off on the side of the freeway, receiving a speeding ticket...
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    okay guys, i made the leap this past week. turned in the leased g35 coupe and picked up a black g8 gt with premium package and 18 inch all season tires. got the car in a suburb of minneapolis. dealership had a 1k markup but they waved it. they had also put one of those stupid paint sealant packages on the car and i only gave them half of what they wanted for that. so, all in all my cap cost on the new lease was based pretty close to the msrp. not great, and i'm sure if i'd have waited a couple more months i could have gotten a better deal, but you know how it is!

    initial impressions after 400 miles of driving. very stable ride, nicely weighted steering, fairly quiet inside at speed, v8 has copious amounts of grunt when you put your foot in it, brakes seem appropriately strong, driver's seat is comfortable.

    couple gripes. the red digital displays are a bit difficult to read with sunglasses on, except for of course the oil and charge readouts which are very big and bright! gm's manual shift function doesn't work as well as infiniti's. my g35 would blip the throttle almost perfectly for downshifts...the 6L80E isn't nearly as smooth. and the headlights are nothing to brag about. they are okay, but could be brighter imo. and the car has a somewhat lumpy idle. otherwise so far i'm enjoying the ride!!
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    btw, if anyone is wondering about the AFM system on the engine, the only way i could detect that it (the engine) was running in 4 cylinder mode was a slight drone in the sound of the engine or exhaust.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,496
    There is also a display in Engineering Mode -
    if you are really curious....
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    how do you get to engineering mode? i've looked all over the manual with no success. also, i can't figure out how to display the oil life monitor...

    just trying to save ahead of time for the next oil change since the 6L takes 8.8 quarts to fill with filter change! ;)
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,496
    My understand is
    ( from [ very ] un-official sources )

    (Hold the enter button when turning the key on)

    Software Version
    GM Part Number
    Battery Voltage
    Battery Charge (%)
    Remaining Fuel (gal)
    Instant Fuel (gal/hr)
    Coolant Temp
    Speed
    Tach
    Tire Pressure
    Engine Oil Life (%)
    Parking Lights (on/off)
    Switch Voltage
    Current Gear
    Active Fuel Management
    Throttle Position
    Trans Sump Temp

    Self Test
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    that did indeed work. thanks!
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    I'm sorry but I have real doubts that the demographic group of 40+ year old professionals and corporate executives who buy M45s, (the few that are sold because the M35 outsells the M45 by 6 to 1), will be shopping a Pontiac G8 GT against an Infiniti M45. The professional or executive who is buying a car for conspicuous consumption will likely want to arrive at business meetings, at the country club which requires a $10,000 annual social expenditure, or at the courthouse for a significant case he is trying in a luxury marque car.

    While the G8 seems to about as attractive a piece of machinery as has been offered by American automakers in many years, the Pontiac never has been nor is it being currently marketed as a luxury marque. Just as the Chrysler is not a luxury marque. The G8 and 300C fall into that peculiarly American (Canadian & Australian) automotive category known as the muscle car sport sedan. Likely the only American make of car that directly competes with the M45 is the Cadillac STS Northstar (if you can call a car being phased out competition).

    That orthopedic surgeon and trial lawyer just might have some fond memories of a second hand Pontiac Sunbird or Chrysler K car, that they drove while in medical or law school, which ran rough and was prone to corrosion.

    To be sure the G8 directly competes with the Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300. It offers a RWD alternative to the FWD Toyota Avalon (Aurion which it competes with in the home Australian market) and the Nissan Maxima. Given the current state of the economy I believe the impact a offering V8 will have in this market segment is still being over-estimated by GM.

    The G8 GT may try to steal some entry level luxury buyers of Acura TLs, Infiniti G35s, MB C-class, BMW 3s and Audi A4s, but those cars are firmly entrenched in the market. Each has just been redesigned and offers similar performance in a true luxury brand. I can conceive the G8 doing the most damage in the market place to the Cadillac CTS. The last generation CTS brought out a V spec model with 400 hp and that car made little market penetration in its segment (against the E39 BMW M5).

    But to say the G8 GT competes with the BMW 550 and Infinti M45 (why not throw in the Audi A6, MB E-class, Lexus GS, and for good measure the new Jaguar XF) I find to be a fantastic claim.

    It's just in that same way that neither the Infiniti M nor even a BMW 550i directly compete with a Maserati Quattroporte or a Bentley Continental.
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    why does everybody over analyze the g8? the car is big, drives like it's much smaller and seems well built. gm seems to have finally built a decent rwd car...let's all just be happy about that!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    This car is for folks who want an M45, BMW550, E-class, etc. But either can't afford it or refuse to spend that much coin on a car. So yeah it doesn't compete with them, but it's not meant to compete with them. I see this as a more common man car. The young professional, 30 something, union guy, etc. Who would not otherwise have access to those highline cars yet still wants those features. These folks aren't caught up in a name moniker, or a built in Navigation system (my garmin works great).

    That's where I see this car going. Folks who don't want a Maxima, Camry, Tarus, etc.

    -mike
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    The fuss is based on the FACT that American automobile manufacturers that had once made that transformed the automobile into everything from an affordable form of mass transportation to truly sublime products envied all over the planet have since relinquished that role to foreign manufacturers.

    In the 1960s American Cadillac Fleetwoods, not Benzes (except in German speaking countries), nor BMWs, nor Audis, nor Jags (except in the UK) were the choice of the tycoons and heads of state. I dare anyone to name one celebrity or head of state outside the US who currently drives a Cadillac in their native land.

    Current American made automotive products (including models made exclusively for the US market in the US by foreign car makers such as the Japanese and Koreans) have only one purpose. Making the manufacturer a quick profit and keeping Americans addicted to conspicuous consumption and that formerly inexpensive drug, gasoline.

    Jeremy Clarkson, the BBCs Top Gear host, though himself no a stranger to hyperbole, came to the same conclusion in his "Good, Bad & Ugly" comparison of American cars and SUVs in California. He posed a reasonable question: How is it that the nation that makes the Nimitz class nuclear aircraft carrier, the Trident class nuclear submarine, and the Space Shuttle, can get it "so wrong" that 5.5 billion other people on the planet will absolutely not buy our domestic made cars? Except for a few Vettes and the Ford GT.

    Manufacturers constantly use hyperbole such as comparisons to similar products beyond the market level of their own product to market. That is called commercial advertising. Even professional automotive reviewers will use hyperbole to extol the virtues of a product. Likely without such sensational comparisons, pure technical writing about what are basically machines might otherwise come across as ... well rather dry and technical.

    Again while the G8 GT is attractive and has some positive attributes, as many professional car reviewers have written "it may be regarded by some as the Wrong Car at the Wrong Time" for both GM and American consumers. Only time will tell but my personal belief is that GM (and Ford which also has a global presence) can do a heck and a lot better at making what American consumers need, rather than merely what their passing fancies desire.

    SEE:
    http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?revid=53137&indcriteria=ASSET_TYPE-A- - ffiliate+Review%2cBuying+Guide%2cVehicle+Profile%7cM-_40_%7cD-_8816_%7cY-_2008_%- - - 7cresultStructure-combined&revlogtype=19&makeid=40&modelid=8816&year=2008&myid=&- - - revlogtype=19&section=reviews&mode=&aff=national

    ALSO:

    http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?ASSET_TYPE=Affiliate+Review%2CBuying+Gui- - - de%2CVehicle+Profile&revlogtype=17&section=reviews&makeid=40&modelid=8816&year=2- - - 008
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