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2008 Pontiac G8

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Comments

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,582
    " go to your library and read the last 10 years of Road & Track and Car and Driver. And I pretty much won't consider the G8 GT a proper sports sedan, until they offer it with a manual transmission. "

    Well:
    "Handsome styling, great motor with fine response, excellent 6-speed automatic transmission and a reasonable price make this a very entertaining sports sedan — I like it," wrote Editor-in-Chief Thos L. Bryant.
    R&T's test of the G8 GT... with automatic trans.
    - Ray
    From my library...
  • pafromflpafromfl Posts: 47
    " go to your library and read the last 10 years of Road & Track and Car and Driver. And I pretty much won't consider the G8 GT a proper sports sedan, until they offer it with a manual transmission. "

    From Googling:

    "sport truck is nearly identical to the G8 sports sedan."
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_- - cars/most_significant_debuts_at_the_2008_new_york_auto_show_auto_show/2010_ponti- - ac_g8_sport_truck_auto_show

    and from other magazines,

    "AUTO SHOWS: 2008 Pontiac G8 Sports Sedan"
    http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2007_chicago/0702_2008_pontiac_g8/

    "The G8s are an accomplished family of sport sedans,"
    http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Pontiac_G8/

    etc.
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    Purchased a new 2009 G8 GT on March 24 (Maverick Silver/Sport/Premium/Sunroof) for $27,246. One year ago the Pontiac dealers in my area were demanding $3-5,000 over MSRP ($36-38,000). This is a great $27,000 car; not a very good $37,000 car. A friend once told me, "your expectations of something are in direct relation to how much you paid for it." I believe that's why G8 sales are increasing in contradiction of the market (and especially GMs market) in general. At $27-28,000 this car represents good value; not at $32-35,000 MSRP. The only things it doesn't have that I really would like are memory seats/mirrors and Homelink. The Homelink I can add later the same way I did in my GTO. Memory seats are available on the Holden models in Australia; sure wish they hadn't nixed those on our G8s. I've had a lot of trouble getting the seat adjusted properly (being 6'3'' and with a sunroof sucking 2-inches of headroom, it's not easy) and I know the first time the wife drives the car it will take me days to get it back right again. Car sure is fun to drive, though, and looks great.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,582
    I had a Corvette with an automatic trans.
    Many posts on the various Corvette Forums I frequented
    before & during my ownership were essentially:

    A Sports Car is not really a Sports Car
    if equipped with an automatic.

    And \ or:

    A Corvette is not really Corvette
    unless equipped with a manual trans.

    While I certainly respect the view that
    a manual trans. has certain attributes
    that may enhance the driving experience
    for some – the reality is that
    [ when last I checked ]
    over two thirds of Corvettes were
    sold with the automatic trans.

    If you choose not to buy a G8 GT
    because it is only available with
    an automatic trans. – fine.

    If you will only consider a car with
    a manual trans – well,
    the debate rages on here - Future of the Manual Trans. - discussion:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef6716a/4576
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    I drive a C5 vette with a manual 6 speed and a G8 GT with a auto. The G8 in sport mode is not bad. It is quick to downshift and ready to go in most instances. I have killed every Acura, Maxima, Altima, Accord that has tried to play with the G8. Even my conservative wife couldn't resist waving bye bye to a Maxima which pulled up to her at a red light.

    The thing about the G8 and other RWD cars is the weight transfer you get to the drive wheels when accelerating. The faster you accerate the more weight you get over the drive tires.

    A manual transmission is especially tricky with FWD off of the line because if you overdo it the front end lifts as the weight transfers to the rear of the vehicle and there goes the traction. The Accord sits and burns when the too much power is used in initial takeoff .

    There is somewhat less control with an auto but there is a definite advantage too. Every time you shift a manual transmission there is no power delivery to the drive wheels. This is why autos can deliver better 0-60 runs in some situations. I also find the delay can hurt when dogging around on a crowded highway when short bursts of power is desired.

    I believe in the end sophisticated semi automatics will prevail as they are coming available on some of the exotic sport cars.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,582
    “Purchased a new 2009 G8 GT on March 24 (Maverick Silver/Sport/Premium/Sunroof)”

    You have wonderful taste.
    [ kidding ]
    Your ’09 sounds a lot like mine:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/rayainsw/new%20G8%20GT%202009/MYg8gttocro- pP1320363cropnewG8GT2009.jpg

    I agree regarding the pricing issue – one reason that I waited until late last Fall to make my purchase.

    Having looked extensively at every other Sport Sedan with roughly comparable performance, dynamics & comfort, I believe that at $30K or less [ actual transaction price ], the G8 GT is untouchable. If those are your personal priorities.

    If a [ fairly good ] V6 is OK, the new Infiniti G37 sedan w/7 speed trans. sounds possibly comparable. There were none available for me to test drive when I was ready to decide.

    YMMV.
    - Ray
    Very happy with the G8 GT’s “bang for the buck” index . . .
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    " go to your library and read the last 10 years of Road & Track and Car and Driver. And I pretty much won't consider the G8 GT a proper sports sedan, until they offer it with a manual transmission. "

    Well:
    "Handsome styling, great motor with fine response, excellent 6-speed automatic transmission and a reasonable price make this a very entertaining sports sedan — I like it," wrote Editor-in-Chief Thos L. Bryant.
    R&T's test of the G8 GT... with automatic trans.


    Hi Ray...

    I made the comment about reading R&T and C&D to the original poster to differentiate the difference between a "sports car", and a "sports sedan". I think the G8 is a great car, and I want one! But they're not getting my money until they offer the GT with a manual, and some interior choices other than black. (I know they offer a two-tone black/red, but that wouldn't go so well with magnetic grey!)

    Mark
  • Agreed, every car is evaluated relative to its price. People can argue specifics all they want, but the bottom line is that for the low-20's (V6) or upper-20's (loaded V8) this is one fine car.
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    There is somewhat less control with an auto but there is a definite advantage too. Every time you shift a manual transmission there is no power delivery to the drive wheels. This is why autos can deliver better 0-60 runs in some situations. I also find the delay can hurt when dogging around on a crowded highway when short bursts of power is desired.

    One of the disadvantages of an AT is the power loss from the torque converter when it's not locked up. There's less power reaching the drive wheels, compared to the direct gears of a manual.
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    One of the disadvantages of an AT is the power loss from the torque converter when it's not locked up. There's less power reaching the drive wheels, compared to the direct gears of a manual.

    This is true and was a big issue in the old days with 3 speeds. That said, autos these days lock up when cruising on the highway (very little loss in MPG). The electronic lock is released on acceleration. Some of the sophisticated semi autos do not have this hangup.

    The other big advantage to a manual is being able to dump the clutch from a standstill. This is especially an advantage on 4WD 4 cyl cars like the WRX which can grip during the influx of energy. It is a false launch as these vehicles show there real colors (lack of torque) once the engine slows down. Some of these 4WD vehicles accelerate to 60 faster under slippery conditions. It utilizes the engine momentum for a longer time.

    A buddy of mine did this with his WRX all the time. The car sounded like it was going to blow up when he did it
  • pafromflpafromfl Posts: 47
    The other big advantage to a manual is being able to dump the clutch from a standstill.

    The G8 GT has enough torque that the limiting factor with both the manual and automatic is melted tires during takeoff.

    The gear ratio of the G8 GXP provides closer shifting points (in terms of mph) at the expense of potentially needing extra shifts.
  • pafromflpafromfl Posts: 47
    The G8 GXP automatic is faster than the manual.

    I'm no longer sure about my above claim. Pontiac Performance just printed an article that claims the manual is "a hair quicker" than the automatic. An earlier Edmunds article claimed "the Pontiac guys casually mentioned that a GXP equipped with the automatic will out-accelerate the version with a manual transmission". Somebody needs to go buy both and compare them.
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    Somebody needs to go buy both and compare them.

    Hell yeah, sign me up!!! BTW, who's paying?!? ;)
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    'm no longer sure about my above claim. Pontiac Performance just printed an article that claims the manual is "a hair quicker" than the automatic. An earlier Edmunds article claimed "the Pontiac guys casually mentioned that a GXP equipped with the automatic will out-accelerate the version with a manual transmission".

    This is not surprising. With the auto, it's pretty much a matter of holding the pedal to the metal (with maybe some powerbraking). With the manual, there are a lot more variables, not the least of which is (manual transmission) driving skills. So it only goes to figure there would be differing results there. Personally, I'll do the shifting myself.... then again, over the last 30 years, probably 75% of my cars have been manuals.... Most of the automatics have been "fill-in cars" - like my current Acura CL 3.0 - that bridge the gap between the cars I really want. Right now, I'm debating whether to use my tax check to fix my wrecked (since 2005) 2000 SVT Contour, or buy something new, or slightly used. The Contour isn't blindingly fast (0-60 in 6.9), but it is a blast to drive on a mountain road, and has very neutral handling for a FWD car. And it only has 45k on the clock, and is paid for, which is always a plus. :)
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Posts: 427
    I assume you are driving the V-6 model, which is a 4000# sedan with 260+HP. My interest is your overall opinion of the car and any concerns of reliable service from bankrupt GM in the future..

    The domestic auto guys are in shambles, and dealers are folding up shop in groves, so there is concern for service, parts, and resale value. The White house turkeys are hell-bent on reforming our good old gas habits and make golf carts the standard wheels..

    Owned 43 cars in my 75 yrs., lots of the Grand Prixs in the early to mid seventies w/big blocks--great machines..Interested in trading the 2006 GPGT in on something larger offering more comfort for four..My 09 Bullitt has taken care of the performance need along with the racket, however my interest is coming back to the G8 for pleasure..Any info would be helpful..
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,582
    "Purchased a new 2009 G8 GT..."
    "I assume you are driving the V-6 model..."

    By definition, a G8 GT is a 6.0L V8.
    Not the V6.
    - Ray
    09 G8 GT driver...
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    I don' think they were using the term V6 to offend you. They just got mixed up on the models. lol. :shades:
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,582
    I certainly was not offended...
    Just offering a clarification.
    - Ray
    2EC69 driver...
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Posts: 427
    Don't need any info on G8, for the Pontiac Divison was just killed..I will keep the 06 GPGT and hug my "2009 Mustang Bullitt".

    Obama was driving a Chrysler 300C w/Hemi before his nomination, however he switched to a Hybrid Ford SUV.. Don't you just love the double stds of the left-hand..

    I was a 3-time Intrigue Owner having had a 1998,1999, and 2002 when GM killed olds Div..great cars..
  • nojetsnojets Posts: 31
    I'm glad they killed this dreadful range of cars. However with respect to the G8, If GM has any sense they will bolt the Holden front grille back on it and sell it as a Chevrolet - a Corvette stablemate. Then I'd buy one in a heartbeat. But I have little interest in driving around in something that looks like a rental car. My reaction is probably what has been killing sales for the G8 in the US. The car is good, the Pontiac image sucks. Now Pontiac has gone maybe this Holden import has a chance.
  • pafromflpafromfl Posts: 47
    Buick is a dying brand in the USA. Why not combine Cadillac and Buick into a single division called Cadillac in the USA and Buick in China? The few remaining USA Buick buyers would be happy to get a bargain Cadillac. Why get rid of "sporty" Pontiac when it is likely to rebound with the economy? If they want to shed yet another division, get rid of GMC whose profitability depends on mass-market gas-guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks that have no place in our brave new world (particularly if CAFE standards are logically applied to "passenger" trucks).
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    If they want to shed yet another division, get rid of GMC whose profitability depends on mass-market gas-guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks that have no place in our brave new world

    That is not GMC's main profitability. Most of GMC's profits come from their commercial vehicles, like dump trucks, large van and stake bodies, busses, and even tractors (as in tractor-trailers). IMO, GMC is a division that is critical to GM. I do agree with you that GM should dump Buick, not Pontiac. The only people buying Buicks are old men with white hair with matching belts and shoes. And polyester slacks. Buick builds the kind of cars that put GM in the place they are in now. Can they really not see that??? :confuse:
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    I really wish biased magazines like consumer reports would lay off the American nameplates. They won't be happy until everyone is driving a boring Camry or Accord. They recommend large sedans like the unwieldy handling Avalon even though it posted the slowest speed in their accident avoidance maneuvers.

    They tested the G8 GT without the performance tire and wheel option. How lame.

    CR's reliability are ratings are so out of touch with any other surveys. The survey is only sent to their biased CR subscribers unlike more reputable and creditable surveys such as J. D. Powers. The American nameplate does not have a chance these days.

    The G8 was the only decent large balanced RWD sedan on the market under 50k. The only competition is a 5 series.

    I wish there was a way to hurt CR in the pocket. They are on the take by rating vehicles according to the demographics of their readers.
  • I recently bought a '09 Pontiac G8, and love it (so far). I am rooting for the big-3.
    I also have subscribed to Consumer Reports for over 20 years and appreciate their genuine attempts at unbiased reviews....otherwise all we would have to go by is sales hype. I am really tired of various people complaining that CR is biased against American cars. All they do is report on what their hundreds of thousands of subscribers say, which is as valid a database as any; and explains why American en masse have switched from domestic cars to Toyotas and Hondas --- they are tired of paying big dollars for unexpected repairs, and getting peanuts at trade-in time. It's a bottom-line thing, people are tired of getting short-changed, and now the "pigeons have come home to roost" as they say, for the domestic auto makers. Unfortunately it requres athreat of bankruptcy before they will "ake up and smell thecoffee."
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    CR’s auto reliability survey data never correlates with any other online surveys or even J. D. Powers for that matter. This phenomena occurs because CRs surveys are sent only to subscribers of CR which is a magazine that constantly ranks on the reliability and performance of anything with an American nameplate; that definitely affect the statistics.

    In my opinion, if CR really wanted to understand why this phenomenon of constant differential in survey data occurs, they would create a fair survey and send it to a random audience (not exclusively subscribers of a biased magazine) like the reputable independent market research J. D. Powers does. CR should want to understand why their surveys do not correlate with any others and deliver a product to the customer that is accurate and sound. As I pointed out many times, I know many people totally satisfied with the reliability and quality of American nameplate vehicles that avoid and dismiss CR due to their heavy bias toward Japanese auto manufactures. These same people gladly fill out J. D Powers surveys and not just for the dollar they give you in advance either. I personally filled out J. D. Powers auto surveys for 4 new American vehicle purchases since 2005 and nixed CRs survey on each because I too always dismiss CR’s because of the magazines heavy bias.
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    CR claims their surveys are “Completed by readers and subscribers of Consumer Reports (Both Magazine and online)”

    That is the description of a demographic:
    “marketing a part of a population identified as a group, especially as a target for sales or advertising”

    That exact phrase is what makes J. D. Powers and many other surveys fair and concise. They do not send it only to an audience that purchases a biased magazine that has constantly ranked on and downed American car manufactures for 25 years now. They send the survey out to random people and report the results without insults to one brand or another. If you read CR’s forums you can see the bias in CRs subscribers. The forum consists of a core group who will tell you an American vehicle can’t go 100k trouble free miles. They claim this even the most reliable nameplate on the planet such as Buick. Or the most reliable midsize cars on the market, such as the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan. Yet not one of these members has owned an American nameplate vehicle in 25 years.
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    CRs comments on the their golden top rated Toyota brand Avalon. I wouldn’t put it past CR to create a straight test track to test the next Gen Avalon. The G8 is a perfectly competent sedan with the wrong brand name:

    “Make no mistake, though, thinking that the Avalon competes with other sports sedans. The soft suspension absorbs bumps well, but body lean is evident in turns, and the car lacks agility. Stability control is standard for 2009
    The Avalon rides very comfortably and quietly. But because of its relatively soft suspension, the car tends to float a bit when encountering road dips at highway speeds. Handling is responsive but far from sporty, with overly light steering.
    Make no mistake, though, thinking that the Avalon competes with other sports sedans. The soft suspension absorbs bumps well, but body lean is evident in turns, and the car lacks agility.
    The Avalon displayed significant lean in corners. The steering is light and lacks feedback, but response to input is appropriate. At its limits on our handling course, it understeers predictably. It posted a rather low speed in our avoidance maneuver, and the electronic stability control (ESC) was needed to keep it on course.

    Braking performance was very good, but the pedal felt soft.
    The manual adjustments for steering wheel tilt and telescope operate independently, making it fussy to fine-tune a comfortable position. Visibility is good, but the rear view is obscured by large roof pillars. The large, flat front seats are well-cushioned and comfortable but lack lateral support.
    Some of the climate controls are a bit of a reach, and the hidden mirror and panel illumination controls are minor gripes.”
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,582
    CR - I wish, I really wish . . .
    “They tested the G8 GT without the performance tire and wheel option. How lame.”

    I know there are always CR haters around -
    but I subscribe -
    and I was ( pleasantly ) surprised that:
    1 - CR tested the GT \ V8 version,
    not the V6.
    and
    2 - They actually had quite a few
    very positive comments!!

    Including:
    “Highs
    Acceleration, transmission, steering, handling, ride, rear seat, value.”
    "As a bargain sports sedan that can
    challenge the performance of models
    from BMW and Mercedes, the
    Pontiac G8 is a success."
    and:
    "The G8 is a fun car to hustle through
    corners and has agile handling.
    The steering is quick and well weighted
    and gives excellent feedback.
    At the limit, the G8 is stable,
    well balanced, and responsive."
    Even ** WITHOUT ** the [ Sport ]
    performance wheel & tire option...

    I found their comments interesting -
    particularly since CR is ** NOT **
    an enthusiast magazine...
    Cheers,
    - Ray
    Enjoying the 'responsive' aspects
    with each drive....
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    Fritz Henderson, in answering an Australian reporter, said the G8 will be phased out by end of this year...
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    Exactly Ray, see what I mean. Now look at the Consumer Reports "New sedans ratings". They put it at the bottom of the heap because it has an American Nameplate.

    G8 -- 75
    Maxima -- 83
    Avalon 89 --

    The Avalon had the lowest speed through CRs accident avoidance The vehicle uses the air bag as an integral part of accident avoidance. Safety takes a back seat when Toyota and Honda are concerned.

    CR is a biased magazine that has an agenda to suit the demographics of their readers in order to sell more magazines. They use the biased reliability data to further insult the American nameplates in the magazine. Why can't they do a fair survey like Powers and others and send the reliability surveys to a random audience? If they did the results would be more in-line with Powers and others. CRs data is tainted and biased. I suggest anyone looking for true reliability ratings to look elsewhere for reputable sources such as J. D. powers who use integrity to collect data. CR leads the witness to sell more magazines.

    CRs Vehicle ratings
    G8 -- 75 -- Bottom of the head.
    Avalon 89 -- This vehicle uses the air bag as an integral part of accident avoidance
    Maxima -- 83

    Ect, etc, etc. Now if you look at motortrend, edmunds, Edmunds owners survey or any other reputable publication, the Maxima is not a superior vehicle.

    Furthermore, notice how poorly the G8 did on braking without the performance tires. Over 19' longer. CR should be recommending the tires as a safety feature. Consumer Reports does shabby work and is sinking the big three to sell more magazines.
This discussion has been closed.