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2008 Pontiac G8



  • pafromflpafromfl Posts: 47
    Buick is a dying brand in the USA. Why not combine Cadillac and Buick into a single division called Cadillac in the USA and Buick in China? The few remaining USA Buick buyers would be happy to get a bargain Cadillac. Why get rid of "sporty" Pontiac when it is likely to rebound with the economy? If they want to shed yet another division, get rid of GMC whose profitability depends on mass-market gas-guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks that have no place in our brave new world (particularly if CAFE standards are logically applied to "passenger" trucks).
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    If they want to shed yet another division, get rid of GMC whose profitability depends on mass-market gas-guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks that have no place in our brave new world

    That is not GMC's main profitability. Most of GMC's profits come from their commercial vehicles, like dump trucks, large van and stake bodies, busses, and even tractors (as in tractor-trailers). IMO, GMC is a division that is critical to GM. I do agree with you that GM should dump Buick, not Pontiac. The only people buying Buicks are old men with white hair with matching belts and shoes. And polyester slacks. Buick builds the kind of cars that put GM in the place they are in now. Can they really not see that??? :confuse:
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    I really wish biased magazines like consumer reports would lay off the American nameplates. They won't be happy until everyone is driving a boring Camry or Accord. They recommend large sedans like the unwieldy handling Avalon even though it posted the slowest speed in their accident avoidance maneuvers.

    They tested the G8 GT without the performance tire and wheel option. How lame.

    CR's reliability are ratings are so out of touch with any other surveys. The survey is only sent to their biased CR subscribers unlike more reputable and creditable surveys such as J. D. Powers. The American nameplate does not have a chance these days.

    The G8 was the only decent large balanced RWD sedan on the market under 50k. The only competition is a 5 series.

    I wish there was a way to hurt CR in the pocket. They are on the take by rating vehicles according to the demographics of their readers.
  • I recently bought a '09 Pontiac G8, and love it (so far). I am rooting for the big-3.
    I also have subscribed to Consumer Reports for over 20 years and appreciate their genuine attempts at unbiased reviews....otherwise all we would have to go by is sales hype. I am really tired of various people complaining that CR is biased against American cars. All they do is report on what their hundreds of thousands of subscribers say, which is as valid a database as any; and explains why American en masse have switched from domestic cars to Toyotas and Hondas --- they are tired of paying big dollars for unexpected repairs, and getting peanuts at trade-in time. It's a bottom-line thing, people are tired of getting short-changed, and now the "pigeons have come home to roost" as they say, for the domestic auto makers. Unfortunately it requres athreat of bankruptcy before they will "ake up and smell thecoffee."
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    CR’s auto reliability survey data never correlates with any other online surveys or even J. D. Powers for that matter. This phenomena occurs because CRs surveys are sent only to subscribers of CR which is a magazine that constantly ranks on the reliability and performance of anything with an American nameplate; that definitely affect the statistics.

    In my opinion, if CR really wanted to understand why this phenomenon of constant differential in survey data occurs, they would create a fair survey and send it to a random audience (not exclusively subscribers of a biased magazine) like the reputable independent market research J. D. Powers does. CR should want to understand why their surveys do not correlate with any others and deliver a product to the customer that is accurate and sound. As I pointed out many times, I know many people totally satisfied with the reliability and quality of American nameplate vehicles that avoid and dismiss CR due to their heavy bias toward Japanese auto manufactures. These same people gladly fill out J. D Powers surveys and not just for the dollar they give you in advance either. I personally filled out J. D. Powers auto surveys for 4 new American vehicle purchases since 2005 and nixed CRs survey on each because I too always dismiss CR’s because of the magazines heavy bias.
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    CR claims their surveys are “Completed by readers and subscribers of Consumer Reports (Both Magazine and online)”

    That is the description of a demographic:
    “marketing a part of a population identified as a group, especially as a target for sales or advertising”

    That exact phrase is what makes J. D. Powers and many other surveys fair and concise. They do not send it only to an audience that purchases a biased magazine that has constantly ranked on and downed American car manufactures for 25 years now. They send the survey out to random people and report the results without insults to one brand or another. If you read CR’s forums you can see the bias in CRs subscribers. The forum consists of a core group who will tell you an American vehicle can’t go 100k trouble free miles. They claim this even the most reliable nameplate on the planet such as Buick. Or the most reliable midsize cars on the market, such as the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan. Yet not one of these members has owned an American nameplate vehicle in 25 years.
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    CRs comments on the their golden top rated Toyota brand Avalon. I wouldn’t put it past CR to create a straight test track to test the next Gen Avalon. The G8 is a perfectly competent sedan with the wrong brand name:

    “Make no mistake, though, thinking that the Avalon competes with other sports sedans. The soft suspension absorbs bumps well, but body lean is evident in turns, and the car lacks agility. Stability control is standard for 2009
    The Avalon rides very comfortably and quietly. But because of its relatively soft suspension, the car tends to float a bit when encountering road dips at highway speeds. Handling is responsive but far from sporty, with overly light steering.
    Make no mistake, though, thinking that the Avalon competes with other sports sedans. The soft suspension absorbs bumps well, but body lean is evident in turns, and the car lacks agility.
    The Avalon displayed significant lean in corners. The steering is light and lacks feedback, but response to input is appropriate. At its limits on our handling course, it understeers predictably. It posted a rather low speed in our avoidance maneuver, and the electronic stability control (ESC) was needed to keep it on course.

    Braking performance was very good, but the pedal felt soft.
    The manual adjustments for steering wheel tilt and telescope operate independently, making it fussy to fine-tune a comfortable position. Visibility is good, but the rear view is obscured by large roof pillars. The large, flat front seats are well-cushioned and comfortable but lack lateral support.
    Some of the climate controls are a bit of a reach, and the hidden mirror and panel illumination controls are minor gripes.”
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    CR - I wish, I really wish . . .
    “They tested the G8 GT without the performance tire and wheel option. How lame.”

    I know there are always CR haters around -
    but I subscribe -
    and I was ( pleasantly ) surprised that:
    1 - CR tested the GT \ V8 version,
    not the V6.
    2 - They actually had quite a few
    very positive comments!!

    Acceleration, transmission, steering, handling, ride, rear seat, value.”
    "As a bargain sports sedan that can
    challenge the performance of models
    from BMW and Mercedes, the
    Pontiac G8 is a success."
    "The G8 is a fun car to hustle through
    corners and has agile handling.
    The steering is quick and well weighted
    and gives excellent feedback.
    At the limit, the G8 is stable,
    well balanced, and responsive."
    Even ** WITHOUT ** the [ Sport ]
    performance wheel & tire option...

    I found their comments interesting -
    particularly since CR is ** NOT **
    an enthusiast magazine...
    - Ray
    Enjoying the 'responsive' aspects
    with each drive....
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    Fritz Henderson, in answering an Australian reporter, said the G8 will be phased out by end of this year...
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    Exactly Ray, see what I mean. Now look at the Consumer Reports "New sedans ratings". They put it at the bottom of the heap because it has an American Nameplate.

    G8 -- 75
    Maxima -- 83
    Avalon 89 --

    The Avalon had the lowest speed through CRs accident avoidance The vehicle uses the air bag as an integral part of accident avoidance. Safety takes a back seat when Toyota and Honda are concerned.

    CR is a biased magazine that has an agenda to suit the demographics of their readers in order to sell more magazines. They use the biased reliability data to further insult the American nameplates in the magazine. Why can't they do a fair survey like Powers and others and send the reliability surveys to a random audience? If they did the results would be more in-line with Powers and others. CRs data is tainted and biased. I suggest anyone looking for true reliability ratings to look elsewhere for reputable sources such as J. D. powers who use integrity to collect data. CR leads the witness to sell more magazines.

    CRs Vehicle ratings
    G8 -- 75 -- Bottom of the head.
    Avalon 89 -- This vehicle uses the air bag as an integral part of accident avoidance
    Maxima -- 83

    Ect, etc, etc. Now if you look at motortrend, edmunds, Edmunds owners survey or any other reputable publication, the Maxima is not a superior vehicle.

    Furthermore, notice how poorly the G8 did on braking without the performance tires. Over 19' longer. CR should be recommending the tires as a safety feature. Consumer Reports does shabby work and is sinking the big three to sell more magazines.
  • cracoviancracovian Posts: 337
    Aren't those performance tires an option??? If G8 does poorly without them then shouldn't you blame GM for going cheap instead of the reviewers and consumers who'll get the common trim that's sitting and rusting on dealer lots?
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    I see no point in arguing your statements regarding CR.
    Clearly you have strongly held views on the magazine.
    Fine. I have no interest in that debate.

    As an appliance, I do see areas where the G8 GT falls short.

    I rarely even look at their ‘overall score’, as their priorities and the weighting of various vehicle attributes are [ rather significantly ] different than mine.

    If one [ primarily ] views an automobile as an appliance, I doubt the G8 GT would rise to the top of a desirability list.

    With 6,000+ miles on my 2009 G8 GT, and having recently purchased a car with an MSRP over $50K [ a Corvette ] I think that if anyone is – or expects that they might soon be - in the market for a car with the dynamic abilities of a BMW 535 or 550, you at least owe it to yourself to drive a G8 GT.

    Clearly, if certain features that are not available on the G8 GT are critical to you [ NAV, AWD, HUD ] the G8 GT is a non-starter.

    But if the size, acceleration, handling and overall performance abilities are your highest priorities, I think the G8 GT deserves at least a thorough test drive.

    If you can afford a BMW 5 series, and you like the interior & exterior styling of the current generation 5 series – and what the BMW 5 series does offer that the G8 GT does not seems worth the additional $$s, to you - well, good for you.

    If you want much of the performance ‘goodness’ of a $50K - $60K+ BMW in a bargain package, I believe the G8 GT is worth a close look.

    I replaced a car with a current MSRP roughly comparable to a BMW 535 with a few options. One could therefore argue that I could ‘afford’ a BMW 5. I chose a G8 GT – for $20K+ fewer dollars.

    Will there [ potentially ] be service issues in the future for the G8 GT, possibly – though due as much to the Australian origins as to the brand being dismantled, I’d guess.

    Will the depreciation \ resale \ trade-in value be hurt by the Pontiac brand’s demise – probably. But I bought mine with that expectation. And I will likely buy a GMPP extended warrantee \ service agreement to allow myself the option to drive my G8 GT until the disposal value is so low that any added ‘hit’ from the Pontiac brand issue will be nominal.

    Right here, right now – and looking as far ahead as I can – I still see this as an opportunity to buy a very competent, RWD, V8 sedan that is an absolute joy to drive, at a very reasonable price.

    For me [ biased, obviously ] the G8 GT provides 90+% of a BMW 535 or 550 performance experience for [ way ] less $$s spent.

    I am not sure anything that depreciates as quickly as a[ny] car can be called a bargain, but for me, the G8 GT comes very close indeed.


    - Ray
    Sad that the brand I recall from GTO & 2+2 days will be gone . . .
  • The G8 will be an early casualty, with production ENDING late 2009. The G8 will not be moved to a different make. Incentives will be increased as needed to clear dealer inventory. Makes no sense to me, but here it is: tiac-models-to-survive-beyond-2010.html
  • GM could have sold way more G8's if it had a lower price for the base sedan, it was priced too close to the GT and should have been $25-26k instead of $27-28K starting out.
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    Actually, the G8 does better than average in breaking without the performance tires and way above average with the performance tires (107-111ft from 60mph). After all it is not a front heavy unbalanced piece of ???? like the Avalon.

    I would say stopping 19' shorter from 60MPH is a safety feature that can save the vehicle (avoid an accident, lockup on the highway) and can also in rare cases save a life.

    That said, unfortunately you are learning this from me and not the haphazard testers @ Consumer Reports.

    Those clowns tested a G8 listing for $33,660 against a golden (Toyota brand) Lexus ES which they optioned to the hilt listing in at $41,289.

    To add insult they did not spring for the optional tires in the Pontiac. Of course not. Check it out for yourself Ray. You are too trusting.

    If Consumer Reports did opt for the tires, then they would have had to rate the Pontiac "Much better than average" on braking and lets not forget the Pontiac carries an American nameplate. Bad for business because CR's subscriber demographics are largely Toyota, Honda and Nissan.

    Now take a reputable vehicle testing publication like Motortrend or Edmunds. They opted for the tire package.

    CR is has a very slippery agenda to sell magazines even if it means blind sighting the customer into not knowing about a safety option.

    I don't know anyone happy with an American nameplate vehicle that does not ignore and dismiss their reliability surveys. As a matter of fact, a lot of people stay away from CR because of their biases period.

    Thankfully, J D Powers is quickly becoming the gold standard for reliability ratings. Even Obama sited J. D. Powers (NOT CR) in one of his speeches.
  • mrpushrodmrpushrod Posts: 80
    Ok, we have similar tastes Ray. I too own a C5 vette with less than 30k miles on it. My primary vehicle is a F150. The 09 G8 GT is a daily driver for my wife. She was looking for an appliance but refuses to drive a vehicle with torque steer.

    Most people would strive to eliminate torque steer and the unbalanced feel of a Japanese appliance if they had the opportunity to alternate between a FWD & RWD vehicle as we have.

    The G8 is no vette, but it makes an excellent daily driver for the NE cities where people tend to drive very aggressive.

    The NAV is no big deal, Garmin 880 is an excellent portable NAV. Wish it had the FORD sync system though. The onstar phone is a nice touch.

    That said, if I owned a Accord, Avalon or Maxima both my wife & I would be wishing for different chassis.

    I remember the GTO days too. Very sad. I chalk the failures to the dumb deals made with the UAW which no longer serve any purpose.

    Ford the second made the comment in the 70s that the American car companies would die in 30 years when he witnessed the Japanese transplants move in. Americans can no-longer rely on pensions and free health care. It is a global economy and we can't expect to earn the best wages and healthcare and drive our Nissans to shop at Walmart where everything is made in China by people earning $50 a week without healthcare.
  • cracoviancracovian Posts: 337
    I've always loved the G8 and I've also liked CR data that comes directly from consumers. It's been spot on with many cars I've had and been exposed to. JD Powers doesn't go beyond 4 years in reliability and that's where American cars had suffered historically. Recent Focuses and Fusions or the Malibus may be great and are highly recommended (as noted by CR) but it takes years to re-establish what's been lost. The cheap bast@rds owe it to themselves and not some magazine that is mostly quite objective (gotta give them credit for destroying Suzuki and Isuzu in NA though)

    I didn't know you could pick and choose your options with the G8 as opposed to grabbing what's on the dealer lot... They took whatever the commonly-stocked car comes with.
  • mrpushrod is like so many of the Detroit-3 apologists over the years: whenever the facts are not as you would like them to be, you vehemently attack the messenger. CR is not perfect, but they have a statistically valid database of car owners from which to draw their reliability ratings. Oh, there's JD Powers? ALL of their funding comes from the domestic auto bias there. Detroit learned too late that quality and resale value are very important to car buyers. Instead time after time they attacked their critics and increased the advertising budget rather than making it right. GM, Ford and Chrysler have the best engineers in the world, they are just shackled by the cost-cutters in management who every time place this year's bonus ahead of long-tern quality; and the greedy unions who continually push to give less work for more pay. THOSE are the self-inflicted wounds that brought Detroit to its knees. I really want to see a strong domestic auto industry, but worldwide competition and this deep recession have brought to light how deeply flawed are the Detroit-3. Certainly not unrecoverable, but attacking the source of valid statistics that unfavorable, rather than taking a long look in the mirror, is part of the problem.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    If I was in the market today I would buy a G8 in a second. Best Pontiac ever very likely... I really hope it comes back as the new Impala or something.

    Sad to see the name die but Solstice and G8 were really the only models worth saving. I think they could have sold them with Buick but CEO Obama must have said no. Bum!

    Sad to see ya go G8!
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 643
    The loss of the brilliant G8 is the result when the people let a far left socialist government control the car industry.

    In the near future the only choices left to drive will be Ladas and Yugos.
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