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2008 Cadillac CTS

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  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    Cadillac has been doing nice interiors since the mid 90s. Check out the '96 STS interior and the '98 STS interior. Same for the Eldorado and Deville of that era. The CTS interior was actually worse than that of the FWD Caddy cars in terms of design. Your contention that the '08 CTS interior is the first nice interior is a complete joke. They have been at this for a decade although the CTS and original SRX interiors were kind of out of place.

    I thought you had disappeared. We have kind of moved on from the Cadillac bashing stage of this discussion. Yes we know, MB has been making great cars for 100 year and Cadillac has just made its first competent car (well we dont really know yet, must wait for C&D to tell us) and they cant compete with the Europeans or Lexus. We all got the point.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The car wasnt trashed by the press at all. That is a lie. NO one said the car was superior to teh 3 series, but that isnt the same as the car being "trashed". Please give the hyperbole a rest if you can. Just because you hate the car doesn't mean it was a failure. The CTS sold well, won a comparison test in R&T (can't wait to hear your excuse) and was generally given favorable reviews as a new kind of Cadillac that could actually handle like a European car. Apparently you missed all of that press though.

    "The complaints focused on cheap materials, poor fit and finish. I already gave the proof of this in the other thread a while back and yet you continued to deny it. That is classic denial. "

    Never read anything about the CTS being poorly assembled. I dont know what you presented earlier, but I'm pretty sure the actual quotes are different from what you are presenting above. Repost it, I know you like to do anti-Gm research. While you are digging of evidence that everyone hated the CTS why dont you reread (assuming you ever read it) the R&T test between 7 RWD sedans in which the CTS finished first. Kind of hard to believe that happened since the car was universally bashed by the press according to you. The CTS-V was also named an all star by Automobile two years in a row. Maybe Cadillac paid for that award though, there's got to be an excuse. Classic denial indeed.

    "I said that in the past American sedans were bottom feeders and you bring up the brand new Aura. The STS isn't a class leader is it? It isn't even close so my comment still stands. "

    Z06 isnt a sedan, finally a valid point. Bravo! The '98 STS, '05 STS/STS-V, Aurora, DTS, Intrigue, Lucerne, G6, CTS, 300C, Fusion, SVT contour, 300M, etc. are/were all bottom feeders? never said the STS was a benchmark, but I fail to see how its a bottom feeder, especially the v series. To me the bottom feeder in the class would be the S type. The V8 luxury sedan class is so competitive that its hard to really say any car in that class is a bad car. Well, you would say the STS is junk, most an objective person would say they are all great cars.
  • I'm not sure why any of us are trying to defend the old CTS interior (or especially its implementation in the SRX). It's not that the interior WAS cheap. Even Bob Lutz said that the interior wasn't inexpensive by any means. The problem was that it LOOKED cheap. Large swaths of plain black plastic around the center cluster will do that. But in trying to make the interior as edgy as the exterior, they also make door panels with hard edges, but were softer to the touch. But the hard edge look compromised the perception of the materials before your hand ever touched it.

    I pointed this out to my Cadillac dealership in Atlanta in August 2003 when I was looking at the car for the first time. Given what I'd seen in other cars, I knew this was going to be a problem. It was a problem by the critics but fortunately for Cadillac, the car sold anyway. But the interior clearly was the weak spot of the car. Unforgivable in my book was repeating that interior in the SRX (which I now own). For an SUV that ranges from $38K to $62K, large swaths of black plastic is completely unacceptable (and thankfully, was upgraded for 2007). Not doing the SRX interior right the first time I believe lost them sales to Lexus and others despite the largely positive magazine reviews.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    The only thing lame is the fact that you think you know what you're talking about. You think that you're some type of authority on what makes and does not make a good car and in fact your preaching your opinions as if they were the gospel of truth. They are opinions and if you don't like whatever type of car, that's great but that's where it stops.

    "True, because the average consumer doesn't care, heck some don't know which set of wheels propel their car. Problem is that Cadillac wasn't competitive with those FWD cars. They were lame and sticking out in a RWD class. "

    You just contradicted yourself. You agree with my point and say some people don't know which wheels propel the car but then say Caddy was lame for sticking with FWD. If an average driver couldn't tell the difference, how was that lame? The old STS handled as well as your run of the mill E320 or GS300.

    Yep they did and ultimately they caved in an went RWD like everyone else. All the CVRSS nonsense was the most ridiculous spectacle possible. Everyone does it now to keep up with the Joneses.

    More conflicting logic. You say everyone uses electronic damping now to keep up with the Joneses and then say CVRSS was nonsense and a ridiculous spectacle when they pioneered the systems used today on virtually all luxury cars. Get your facts straight, CVRSS 2.0 had technologies that are just now being introduced in your beloved perfectly balanced Europeans sedans who as you used to say didn't need such frivolous technology to achieve good handling. You make absolutely no sense at all and continue to prove that if GM does something first it's crap but if Lexus, BMW or MB introduces a system it's a god sent. Ridiculous.

    Cadillac is steadily chasing the Euros because that is whats in, not a DTS or ES350 type car.

    Um, they are, are they? Is the Escalade chasing a european type truck? Would you care to let me know the sales figures of the DTS (and previous DeVille) since it's not as you say, "in?" You speak as if you know what the industry wants when you continuously prove you are out of touch. Again, your opinion is being delivered as fact when it is not. The ES350 (and RX) is a good seller as well it's it predecessor. Just because you (or myself for that matter) wouldn't buy it doesn't mean we're in the majority.

    Also, if you like the new CTS, good for you. I don't think any of us will be jumping for joy because you can finally acknowledge a GM vehicle.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Cadillac has been doing nice interiors since the mid 90s.

    I see the problem now, that's we have different definitions for "nice interiors". No wonder the conversation didn't go anywhere.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    I'm going to try to make a point here Chavis. Those interiors which did suck (no argument from me there), but they were not the norm from those brands, especially Mercedes and Lexus. That is the difference and it why people rag on GM interiors, cheap interiors are what they've done for years and years, 10 out of 10 times so yes people do forget that certain MB, Lexus and other imports have turned up stinky interiors from time to time. Don't you see that when Cadillac does cars like the new CTS on a consistent basis the criticism will go away? If GM could quit introducing half-baked cars like the Kappa twins no would could say anything.

    Here we go... It seems to me, we are making excuses yet again. The Seville interior introduced in the '98 model year was a nice interior and very pleasing aesthetically in my opinion. I liked that car very much especially on the inside with navigation. So, for you this new CTS is the first GM car you would ever set foot in which is not true for other people. I have a '98 olds intrigue that has 98k miles and there is nothing wrong with it's interior design or durability (other than the cheap carpet). No sun damage, cracking or peeling on the plastics. Sorry, I cannot subscribe to your point of view implying every GM interior before MY '07 has been trash.

    How did the Kappa's come up? Again, here you go proving that you hate everything GM builds (except the new CTS). We already know that so that goes without saying. I don't like the Solstice at all (inside or out) but the Sky looks ok although I would never buy a small roadster.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Please describe a nice interior then? I believe the models he's referring to are the '95 and up STS/ETC. Those models had a similar simplistic look of the Lexus LS400 dashboard while the Germans made terrible looking depressing cockpits of black on top of black with a few strips of wood thrown into the mix. You can say what you want about the quality but German cars before the last gen 5 and 7 series (I think it was introduced '95 or '96) had terrible LOOKING interiors in my opinion.

    Lexus has always had nice looking cockpits and Infiniti has been all over the place.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    Why dont you name the bad Caddy interiors from the mid 90s onward? The FWD Caddies of the late 90s had interiors that had more in common with Lexus than anything being made by BMW or MB at that time. BMW interiors in their last generation vehicles were flat out dull, dark and uninspired. Same goes for last gen E class, '01 C class, first gen M class, etc. Current MB interiors are light years ahead of what they were making 5-6 years ago now that they finally realized they needed to challenge Lexus in terms of luxuriousness of interiors. I'm afraid to think of what German interiors would be like if Lexus hadn't come on the scene and forced them (OK, not BMW) to abandon their cold, angular interiors that lacked any feel of luxury or warmth.

    If you look at the '98 STS, ETC and Deville interiors and then look at Lexus interiors in the ES300, GS300 and LS400 at that time you will see some similarities. Matter of fact, the gauges for the Cadillacs were made by the supplier of Lexus' electroluminescent gauges. To me, the CTS and SRX interiors were a step down from what Caddy had been doing in earlier cars. It's obvious they have learned their lesson because the Slade, '08 CTS and SRX interiors have more in common with the 90s Caddies than the current CTS.

    I would like some examples of late 90s interiors that were head and shoulders above what Caddy was doing. Please don't say Acura or Infiniti either. My neighbor has an '03 I35 and the interior is about on par with the current Impala if it's even that good. The woodgrain is so obviously fake that they would've been better off omitting it from the interior. The last gen TL's interior was no better than the Accord's is today. They made a quantum leap with the '04 TL and TSX. All you are left with is Lexus really.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Like I said, we have different definitions of "nice interiors", nothing's wrong with that. I am not forcing you to agree with me so why should I must agree with you?

    I personally like Acura and BMW's interior best in the late 90's. I like BMW's driver-oriented design (which they took it away and replaced with the current disaster) and as always, they use good materials. Acura always has the most elegant interior in my opinion, it's not too "in your face" but unique enough to stand out. The most important part is that both manufactures have good fit-and-finish even on their not-so-desirable years (like the current BMW).

    To me Lexus and Cadillac's interiors are just IMO too bland in the late 90's (throw MB into that bunch if you wish). However, Lexus and MB at least utilized higher grade materials than Caddy and had better fit-and-finish (touch them and compare the difference, knock on it and listen, poke it and see how does the surface respond, press the center stacks cover to see if it squeezes, also the most important, check the gaps between panels) . Those are the ways how I identify good interiors from the rest. For me, Cadillac at that time was above average (Honda, Toyota level) but definitely not on par with MB, Lexus, Acura and BMW.

    I do agree that Infiniti's interior is always not so pleasant all the way until recently.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    There were some hard plastics in Cadillacs of last decade, but I would say it was no worse than what Acura and Infiniti were doing. Cadillac use of leather and Zebrano wood was very nice though and a Cadillac with the wood steering wheel and shifter was quite lovely and very upscale looking. I dont recall any fit and finish issues at that time, Cadillac has been on top of that for some time.

    If you liked the old BMW interiors than I can see why you weren't impressed by what Cadillac was doing. Driver oriented is one thing, but IMHO an interior needs to look like its befitting of a luxury car and that wasnt the case of older BMWs. Once you look at models before the '97 5 series and '95 7 series things got REALLY ugly, literally. All black interiors with small, simple gauges don't do it for me. The plastics and leathers in German cars has always been nice as far as I can remember but design is just as important as the hardness of plastics. Lexus interiors were rather plain (still are) but overall I though their late 90s interiors were the most luxurios looking on the market.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    All black interiors with small, simple gauges don't do it for me

    There you go, another reason why we are having this conversion. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind woodtrims and light color interior but I prefer black + aluminum (metallic acceptable) for 3 and 5-series class of cars. I would definitely opt for wood if I am getting a 7-series, S-class or LS because of the prestige factor.

    Oh, By the way, I don't like simple gauges either. That's another reason why I hate current BMW interiors so much.

    Gotta agree with you on Lexus interior being plain. However I did see a great deal of improvement for their current L-finess inspired sedans. IMO, Lexus interior's fit-and-finish and material quality are still top notch in the industry along with MB.
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    WOW !!!!! I'd love to have your insurance company !!!!

    Rocky, your insurance probably offers the same thing, you just have to ask. Mine has a deductible of $250, but I think you can buy it down. Either way it's cheaper that the 2+K one's the dealer sells.

    Most of the major insurance providers offer this protection. I have the caveman. I think if you don't ask, they won't tell you. I have about 11 discounts because I simply asked, "What else can I get a discount on?". And they opened the flood gate.

    You may be surprised to find out all the coverages that you already have and haven't even used. It's some really good stuff if you inquire.

    thebug...
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,706
    You need to realize that the CTS isn't and was never made to compete with the 3 series. What it's aimed at is the 5 series. When you consider that it's trying to be a 5-series competitor for 10-20K less, it's a whole different matter.

    Of course it's not a 3 series. The RX-8 isn't a 350Z either, but they always put it up against it. That the CTS and RX-8 both do about 80% as well as the car they are wrongly matched against speaks to how decent they are - especially for the price.

    The 2008 CTS is going to knock the 5 series and the E class for a loop. Less expensive to buy, less expensive to maintain. Better performance. I can't wait to sit in one. :)
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    Nav systems aren't useful in a town that's growing rapidly.

    The construction in this city is maddening. I believe it's some much that city officials don't even know where it is sometimes. There is no way a nav system could know about this. I mean it's everywhere. You would just have to visit Las Vegas to see what I mean. It's absolutely crazy.

    Cone zones have a tendency to just pop up unannounced. You can drive down a street at 9AM, and when you drive back the other way at 11AM it's now under construction, then at 5PM it's gone.

    That's how it is all day, and sometimes at night. On other days, or at other times, without prior notice, the cone zone guys will just close a road for some unknown reason. So you just have to know alternate routes up front, and sometimes that doesn't even help.

    thebug...
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    Rocky: How does this discount work? I'm sure it's based on usage, but how much usage constitutes a discount?

    A winter beater for a CTS. No way, I don't even drive the current in the rain. I think that in the four years that I've had it, its only been out in the rain twice, (and it doesn't really rain here, it just spatters dust spots) and that's because it started raining while I too far away from home.

    And yes, if I get the slightest hint of rain, I put it away, (or don't even consider it for the day) and use the designated rain car. If it's cloudy out, most people know which car I'm driving.

    thebug...
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    You need to realize that the CTS isn't and was never made to compete with the 3 series.

    I agree with you on this one, and I really think that the 5 Series, and like cars took a hit when the CTS hit the market.

    thebug...
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    I applied for the card and it was approved. I just need to know how much discount I can produce by November, or if it's even possible. Next purchase for sure.

    thebug...
  • What other cars are 'like' the 5 series? The CTS certainly isn't bothering that market at all. It might make a difference if the CTS's grill was bigger. Maybe something along the lines of a Mack truck would look better.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,706
    You have the larger Infinity models, the A6, the Volvo S80, the Lexus ES series, the E-Class...

    Some are more sporty, some are more luxurious, but none are priced as low as the CTS, and price does matter now that some of these models are pushing 40K for a base model.
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    I didn't say it killed the 5 Series, I said that the 5 Series and cars of the like probably took a hit. Cars of the like would be those of the same size with similar features and priced just above that of the CTS. That's a given for the most part.

    Just in my small social circle 5 people traded BMW's and Audi"s for the CTS. I'm sure that works both ways as well. Those first time CTS buyer's who were not satisfied went to other models. I bet if someone did research on this, it would be found as true. It's the nature of the beast.

    I myself like the BMW 5 Series a lot, but won't buy one because I know it's over priced. There's just not enough there (big bucks, little bang) to warrant the asking price in my experience.

    thebug...
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