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2008 Cadillac CTS

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  • For the record: I am VERY IMPRESSED with the new 2008 CTS. I wouldn't even bother posting here and jousting with others here if I thought it wasn't a HUGE move forward for Cadillac, GM and frankly American manufacturing and the American (and perhaps global) customer.

    One is not able to be driven, today. But, if it were, I would test it IMMEDIATELY not so I could dis it and tell you how much better some foreign make is, it would be with the sincere desire to be impressed.

    I EXPECT to be impressed. I merely said I thought the car needed some "ahead of the pack" not "equal to the rest of the pack" content. (My last gen comments are primarily in response to the notion that some seem to think the CTS will graduate to the LPS class with this update -- AND I contend that the ELLPS 2008 CTS will incorporate 2005 LPS content.)

    Now here is something I just can't let pass: "The strategy of GM isn't to make a better car. They want to do what Toyota did to them 20 years ago. Build a comparable car that in no way stands out from the rest except in reliability and lower cost."

    I am also wondering if Cadillac REALLY is trying to emulate the Toyota example. Are they really attempting to build a car that in no way stands out from the rest. . .? I believe they want (and seem to have the capability) to build a world beater, not a world keeper-up-with.

    But, as usual, I could be wrong -- just never uncertain. :surprise:
  • I'm expecting tail fins on the next STS.

    Hopefully with rocket taillights. That'll stand out.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Yet this counter to the typical competetive ideology is what set Toyota apart in the 80s. They were just another car - like Mazda is now - but they were cheaper to fix, broke less often, and cost a few thousand less out the door. GM had the image, but was falling apart where it counted.

    And peolpe started buying them instead of domestics.

    BMW and Mercedes have become horribly unreliable and expensive. Volvo is rapidly turning into a joke as well - at least compared to a decade ago(1993-1997 was probably their high-point). All GM has to do is offer a simmilar product with a better warranty, better reliability, lower cost to fix, and for a lower price...

    Oh, wait - other than the interior, the first generation CTS was all of that. The next looks to be a significant upgrade. So expect a lot of shoppers to take a look at it - and then another once they see the under $40K price.
  • But then I'll never be able to buy one at a discount. Of course, the resale value will be better, but I keep my cars a while, even the Intrigue that I don't really like much.
  • Very thoughtful response.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    But what are the chances that adding any kind of options to a base model would require the leather upgrade?

    Biker, who'd be very interested in base model w/ sport suspension and 6MT.

    PS. And, please no run flats.
  • Just opened my new Automobile magazine and looked at the pictures, read the words (mostly positive, very positive) about the upcoming CTS.

    I keep googling this, that and the other place to find out what will be available with what.

    I would certainly be keenly interested in a configuration like this:

    2008 CTS w/300 HP V6

    o sport suspension/wheels [18" or bigger] (maybe sport seats)
    o either 6 speed would be fine, but I'd probably go with the manual
    o AWD (sorry, this one is a deal breaker)
    o Magnaride
    o Technology/guidance package: sat nav, sat radio, voice control of nav and phone, bluetooth, park sensing and/or rear backup camera, TPMS with TP readout, electochromic mirrors
    o Leather and/or leather alcantara (optional) seats
    o Front and rear heated seats

    And the things Cadillac generally calls "Luxury Performance Group."

    Here is a concern -- the AWD will not be allowed with the 300HP engine, the sport package or the stick shift. Reading one site it appears the AWD version will be somewhat limited in its configurability (auto only -- which in and of itself is not a show stopper -- 258HP -- which MAY not be a show stopper, but 300HP would be sweeet, and so on.

    The question is, "is there a place one can go to determine what combinations will be offered??

    I assume, barring technical restrictions, there will be MARKETING reasons (initially) to offer configurations and that over time these may change. I need to be in order mode in 13 months and despite what some of you have concluded, the early data (and the pictures) have made me keenly interested in the CTS AWD @ 300HP with a 6 speed manual.

    I am continuing to be more impressed with Cadillac's efforts for this refresh. :surprise:
  • You're probably right. I HATE the way they sell options now. I thought modern manufacturing was supposed to be more flexible, but if you compare the number and types of choices we had 30 years ago, it's ridiculous.

    I'm middle-aged, so I want the softest suspension and smaller wheels. I live in the old part of town, and my Intrigue makes me feel every road imperfection.

    How well do modern clutches hold up? I last had a manual in 88, and it went through clutches like water. It may have been my driving style of course.
  • The press release is the only solid information I would trust. Someone said bluetooth wouldn't be available initially except for export (very odd). I don't recall Magnaride being an option, which is too bad. What is TPMS?

    Looking at your list of gizmos, you may have to get an STS to get all of them. At the GMI site, people are expecting the STS to be redone for the 2009 model year, but no one knows for sure.

    I can't imagine them not combining AWD and the 300hp engine. Look at the current STS to see if they combine manual and AWD.

    GM has a long tradition of offering desirable options, especially engines, the second year of a new model. It's stupid because it hurts them in magazine comparisons and irritates first year customers, to say nothing of the potential customers who never hear about the upgrade and go elsewhere. By next March, you may be able to find out what's new on the 09 model, which could be infuriating if your lease is up then.

    If I can't get my A/C fixed cheaply, I'm seriously considering buying a used El Cheapo with a manual & A/C to see if I want another manual in a CTS or G8.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    Mark, I agree that we all want more info on the CTS. I don't think we will get much more than has already been released anytime soon, so I am now waiting for the first car mags (or Edmunds) to get their hands on an early version for some testing. From what has been released so far, it seems that Caddy has checked most of the boxes on things that we all clamored for. The AWD may not be available with the 300hp engine, but then, some potential competitors don't have AWD available with their top engines (M45, IS350, etc). Audi figured out how to do this long ago, but so far, most other manufacturers have not stepped up to this issue.
  • bingomanbingoman Posts: 373
    Anyone know the probability of a backup camera with navigation, and adaptive cruise control being on the option list?
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Is that all/most brands have a note/disclaimer and
    note "leather seating SURFACES" !!!!
    This tells me that the only parts that are leather
    would be where you back or butt rests !
    I can assume the rest is plain ol' vinyl............
  • Magnaride is NOT a deal breaker, but I had an SRX with it for a weekend and subsequently rented one without it.

    The differences are NOT subtle. Magnaride is, er, like having a sport suspenion when you need it and a comfort suspension the rest of the time. The def of having your cake and eating it too.

    Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS), sorry for the FLA (four letter acronym.) Occupational hazard (I'm in IT and we TLA or FLA everything!)
  • I do not know the answer to your question.

    Here is some "data" for your digestion.

    The Chrysler 300 offers adaptive cruise, navigation, partial voice (for the phone function, which IMHO is MANDATORY if we expect to be legally allowed to use a phone in a moving car and drive at the same time) -- but the 300 offers "parktronic" but no backup camera.

    As I recall park sensors were not offered through 2006 on the CTS, dunno if it came out on the '07's.

    I would be OK without a backup camera, personally, but it is the kind of feature that would be classified as "expected" as we move up from the ELLPS.

    I have a loaner car, this weekend with the backup camera AND parktronic sensors and I must admit it is cool -- but I would hardly feel short sheeted if a backup camera was not offered (on the other hand, as someone here noted, why not sell it if the customer wants it and will pay for it?)

    Navigation will be offered, you can be assured of that. If adaptive cruise control is not offered, life too will go on, but lane departure warning would also be a welcome feature (extra cost, of course.)

    On this same loaner, I have lane departure warning which is a completely VISUAL system built into the outside mirrors -- I thought it was annoying when I tested it in an Infiniti since it was an AUDIBLE system that was either ON or OFF, the visual system can be turned off, but it is NOT annoying like the noise maker system.

    In any case, mass customization (of options without forcing the buyer to buy a package just to get two of the 5 features in it) makes all of this easy AND profitable.

    I wanted a heated steering wheel AND heated front and REAR seats. What is the big deal, charge for it.

    In the Infiniti, for example, the only way to get heated rear seats is to buy the Premium package which is $10,000 -- who's dumb idea was that?

    Anyway, we all seem to want to be able to pick and choose what we want -- and hey, I'm all for packages (with discounts) too. But sometime things are lumped together or not allowed to be selectively configured.

    This latter point, ease of ordering, would be a real differentiator these days.

    Some folks here will be upset with my opinion that it costs over 60 large to equip an STS the way "I" want it because option groups force the buyer down a path of 5 figures worth of groupings -- if one wants Magnaride, for instance.

    Sign onto a German or even British website for one of the German cars and the ordering options are extensive and very detailed. Sign onto the US version of same and it is true lots of desirable things ARE bundled together -- but it simply is not possible to pick and choose if what you want is a sport suspension with UHP all season tires.

    In any case, this is -- were I in a focus group and asked -- a way to differentiate the new CTS from its closest competition. Hopefully this new CTS can be configured "any which way but loose."

    With respect to interiors, why not offer cloth, vinyl, leather seating surfaces, full leather or leather and alcantara mixed and matched? Let my people choose!

    I used to be of the mind that cloth was the best. Spill coffee on it, and, well, all of a sudden the non cloth interiors start to get better looking.

    Now, with two Shetland Sheepdogs as sometimes passengers, cloth would be a disaster.

    Chocolate milk shakes -- leather survives, cloth dies, and so on.

    My friends with children were the first to turn me onto leather -- I'll leave you with what they told me: cleaning up after a baby's "mess" is simple with leather, impossible with cloth.

    Hell, I even got rid of my cloth couches and went with twin full leather sofas and recliners -- paper towels can clean them of anything that can be spilled or thrown up on them!

    Come to think of it, that probably rules out suede, then doesn't it. That would be nasty if the dog got car sick -- what was I thinking?

    I took the new Automobile magazine to my friend at the BMW dealership today -- he looked at the price and the car and said "uh oh," my job might be a little bit harder next year!

    From this side of the desk, however, our choices just got more interesting, eh? :shades:
  • Do you remember those aftermarket clear plastic seat covers that split after a few years? Good times. Not!

    Cadillac uses gizmos to better differentiate the CTS and STS lines. I think they're more likely to require the 300 engine for AWD than prohibit it. They were slow to offer it with the V6 on the STS. With the new rear window, they will have to offer ultrasonic parking warning at least. It may have it now.

    There are some complaints about seat comfort (padding) with ventilated seats on the Lexus/Avalon forums. A search didn't turn up anything on the Cadillac forums, but I wonder how many they sell. If you can't get heated rear seats, get the remote start, which turns on the climate control. My father has a Samoyd and cloth seats which will soon be white.

    I've been complaining for years that GM and others (idrive) are forgetting the luxury of CHOICE. The new Malibu will have many more interior colors and choices than any Cadillac, which used to offer 2 different fabrics and leather in multiple colors in every model, plus the d'Elegance interiors for a few years. If the Malibu's a success, perhaps they'll do it more often. They've at least dumped the all-black dash, which IMO was worse than the design itself.

    I used to work for a Pentagon contractor--alphabet soup. The Navy likes to make theirs into words or puns.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Mark,

    You might expect to find items like sport seats and Magneride on the 600 hp CTS-V. I don't think it's wise move for GM, do make the option list to complicated from a cost standpoint for the regular CTS.

    I like the regular CTS, the way it is. I wouldn't get sport seats and think the ones already found on the CTS will fit the bill good enough for a 300 hp car. I know BMW's 335i can cross the $50K range when you fully option it up. I don't think GM, wants the CTS, to creep that high when they have the over $50K CTS-V coming out for Model Year 09'. I predict the CTS-V will start out or be loaded up in the low-mid $50's like the last generation. A 07' CTS-V is $52-53K. Who's not going to want a 09' CTS-V for $55-58K with 600 hp. that will smoke a M3 for less and smoke the M5 for a fraction of the money ???? GM, can kill 2 birds with 1 stone with the 09' CTS-V :D

    I'd look for the next generation STS-V to cross the 650 horsepower mark. Some expect the next STS-V to be around 750 horsepower but I don't think 650+ hp. is unrealistic. The new "Ultra" V8 that will debut in the next STS will make a base 400 hp. rating. ;) So Twin Turbo-Charging/Super Charging and increasing displacement beyond the standard 5.0L can be done according to what I've read to get Mercedes AMG beating numbers. :shades:

    Rocky
  • No one has said anything about the large, two panel glass sunroof on tne new CTS. I've never had one of any type, partly because I need the headroom.

    Is it true that they all leak eventually, or is that an urban myth?

    I'm curious if you can feel the summer sun's heat through the shade. I can feel on my face the heat radiating off my solarcool windshield, so I wouldn't want that right above my head.
  • I HATE the way they sell options now. I thought modern manufacturing was supposed to be more flexible, but if you compare the number and types of choices we had 30 years ago, it's ridiculous.

    That's exactly what I hate about Acura and most of the Japanese imports. The only option is often satnav. You either buy the whole car or nothing. Lexus is just as bad. Moonroofs are listed as option, but just try finding one on the lot without one.

    Domestics seem to be much more accommodating. Please, continue to give me options. Bundle them if you wish, but keep some standalone.

    BTW, I'm currently a Lincoln LS driver, but I'm anxiously anticipating (redundant?) the new CTS. I like the exterior styling and the RWD.
  • I, too, prefer the headroom over the sunroof. My wife never uses hers. However, at 7 years and 120,000 miles, hers (Volvo) has never leaked.
  • It probably helps that it's never used.

    If I had one that I could fit under, I would use it a lot, but I worry about the risk. SRX owners complained of squeaks and rattles with their giant ones.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,720
    Mark, I believe that the correct FLA for a FLA is "ETLA." Being in IT, you know that this stands for "Extended Three Letter Acronym!" ;)

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • is a very balanced, and good hearted poster.

    It's amazing to me what a small amount of differing opinion makes 1487's thong get all twisted up.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    If only you were a balanced poster I could bring myself to respond. I'm kind of amazed you are in this topic since you dont like the CTS or anything else that isnt German.
  • like the CTS very much.

    I'll do the smart thing and wait till it comes out, then drive it, and judge the driving dynamics for myself.

    I won't declare it the second coming before it's even in dealerships.
  • . . .the CTS rah rah may be much ado about nothing. Or it may be a shot across the bow (of the German icons.)

    For the moment, let's assume it is as full of the goodness as Automobile and Motor Trend (et al) have depicted.

    Let's also assume that a CTS LOADED (not a CTS-V) can be had for a number that begins with a "4" (and I'm talking about MSRP, not street price.)

    This weekend our big town had the annual [dismal] new car show (which was actually "not bad" for a Cincinnati show.)

    I checked out cars that I thought would be competitive with the "new" CTS (and I did survey the current CTS, too.)

    BMW, for instance, positioned its on the floor 5-series car at the "expo" as a 530xi in silver with leather and apparently premium pack and heated seats, etc. The price was able, somehow, to be (on the window sticker) a number beginning with a "$50." It had a $1,275 auto trans.

    Audi's A6 3.2 was there, too, with an on floor price something like "$48" as the first two numbers despite the fact that it was silver (extra cost) 18" wheel package (extra cost) and two other option groupings.

    Infiniti had an M35X also sub $50K, ditto Lexus and ditto Cadillac's STS.

    Those of "us" who want to compare the upcoming CTS with the LPS class, apparently could find the CTS a screaming bargain since the above noted cars, although hardly strippies, were only "moderately" optioned.

    The magazine pundits who want to compare the CTS with the ELLPS cars, would find the BMW 3 series sedan, the A4 the G35, the IS, etc, much more highly optioned would be better equipped and only slightly less than their "bigger" siblings. A case could be made then (assumptions above) that the CTS for 2008 would be a no-brainer if you were looking for a BMW 5 series similarly decked out.

    The new CTS will be more bigger, more better than the current CTS. It will, apparently, be "close enough for jazz" to the size class that includes the [current, at least] BMW 5, Acura RL, Infiniti M, etc.

    I am building to a possible conclusion (one I'm assuming Cadillac is hoping will come true) -- the CTS will "challenge the thinking" of a person looking for an Asian or European LPS by virtue of content, fit and finish, style and yes even performance. The new CTS will be a "thinking person's" AMERICAN LPS alternative.

    Somehow, I'll bet that the pundits (who may not be the customers but they are the "taste makers") will not give the CTS the keys to the LPS club regardless of the above observations and assumptions.

    Is this important to "you and me?"

    Perhaps.

    I for one despite all the ire I seem to foist upon myself by my comments, look forward to testing a new AWD 300HP CTS with the OPTION, just the very thought of this is incredible, of a 6 speed row-your-own and all of the LPS content I currently enjoy in my A6. And if the lease price for less than 40 months comes in at a number beginning with a "5," well, hell -- I'd be hard pressed not to thumb my nose at a more expensive and perhaps only better from a pundit's point-of-view LPS car that could be had for a number beginning with a "7."

    After 28 Audis, 2 BMWs and, let's see, 3 VW's, I don't need no stinkin' badges! I want a car that offers Performance and Luxury that happens to be a sedan.

    Sayin' it don't make it so, but the preliminary data suggests the new CTS will NOT be an LPS killer, but it very well could be one of the MOST SIGNIFICANT American cars coming out in 2008.

    For the sake of competition, I hope so.

    Of course, as usual, I am often wrong -- but never uncertain.

    Drive it like you live. :surprise:
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    I think most of us are hoping that the new CTS will be a homerun, but we have been down this road before with any number of brands only to find some things that were not likable when the cars were finally wrung out on the road. On paper, the CTS looks great. I want it to still look great after C&D, R&T, MT, Automobile, etc have driven it hard and put it away wet! Oh yes, and CR too.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    The CTS will start with a price that beings with "30". The base model with a manual transmission, from what the local dealer told me, should only be 1-2K more than the previous 3.6 CTS was, if that. $35K is closer to reality.

    It's not that it's cheaper than the 5 series, so much as BMW and Mercedes are gouging horrendous amounts for their cars lately.
  • I agree with your first two sentences, not the third. The car mags have different priorities from mine, specifically performance at the limit over everything else, such as comfort, room, style, and everyday driving satisfaction. I quit driving so fast after I ran over a puppy ten years ago.

    I'm big enough that I don't need Mark's (status) measuring stick either!
  • jpennjpenn Posts: 68
    I agree completely with ral1960. Whenever I read a test in C&D, Automobile and the rest I always have to factor in the overwhelming emphasis which is placed on speed/handling, acceleration and responsivness, compared to style, comfort, ergonomics AS WELL AS, performance.

    I've been an admirer of the CTS since it's introduction and hope to purchase one in 08 or 09 depending on whether there is a coupe in the CTS future. If not I'll settle for the sedan given the latest photos of the 08. I'm hoping that it will be as striking in person as it has been in all of the introductory photos.

    With that said, I'm elated that the new direct injection V6 will produce 300 hp. It certainly won't hurt to have that much power and torque on hand when needed.
  • I had the pleasure of seeing the '08 "in the flesh" at the Chicago show last week. The photos don't quite do it justice, as nice as they are. The execution is slightly less angular than the previous model (I have an early build '03), with softer curves in all the right places, but without rendering it devoid of character, as was the case with the STS. I felt that the proportions were much better balanced, both by actual dimensions and some "trompe l'oeil" design cues and well-placed creases. Huge attention to the little details on the lights, trim, etc., and while I couldn't get close enough to touch the interior (velvet ropes and the turntable display platform made that impossible), it is quite stunning and definitely worthy of the praise it is receiving in the car mags and on this forum.

    One interesting note: the "spokesmodel" presenting the features of the new CTS mentioned the 40GB hard drive MP3 player and seemed to indicate that you could copy your CD's directly from the CD player to the hard drive. That would truly be useful.
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