Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





2008 Cadillac CTS

1212224262794

Comments

  • socalbmmrsocalbmmr Posts: 12
    I've been scouring the net for any more shots other than the old spy shots and the NAIAS shots, as well as those on cadillac.com -- has anyone seen any others?

    I'm curious about exterior/interior color combos... one thing I think that has really set the 3-series apart from its competitors lately has been its choice of cool colors both exterior and interior. My hope is that Caddy offers something other than the typical black, tan and grey choices... chocolate brown or red would be cool leather colors...
  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    From the saleman's guide excerpted on GMI:
    "Optional "Mulberry" leather seating."
    Don't know if mulberry is a color (dark purple) or a brand.
  • socalbmmrsocalbmmr Posts: 12
    Hmmmmm... interesting. Can you send me the link to GMI? And what exactly is GMI?! Forgive my ignorance... :)

    I'm really getting excited about the CTS... it might be my first domestic!
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    GM doesn't want to say "Burgundy". Gotta love these new names. "Lunar sunrise pearl mist glowing...(and the color isn't even mentioned yet)"

    How about real colors? Heh.

    Take blue. When was the last time you ever saw a car with only "blue" as the color?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,101
    If it comes to pass, as some here contend, that the new CTS comes to market priced "within reach" of the outgoing CTS (MSRP) if similarly equipped -- I think that is a good thing. And, a question, are those of you who are like me in wanting "my CTS -- should I get one -- to be AWD" thinking that the AWD "feature" should add at most $1,900 to the bottom line of the CTS?

    If that is so, doesn't that make a 258HP ALL optioned AWD CTS come to market at $45,000-ish? And, if that is so, what does that mean the cost of the 300HP version would be? $47,500-ish (plus shipping and handling?)

    Now, at that price, you are likely to be above the typical BMW 3 and Audi A4 MSRP -- but only by 2 or 3 thousand, and truth be told, if you configure your BMW with similar equipment to what the CTS will most certainly have, the BMW and/or the A4 will be between $38 and $50,000. I have recently priced both cars just for "fun."

    Now, I am cognizant of the CTS's advantage (to me at least) of a 5 series wheelbase and dimensions overall that would be much more to my liking than either the 3 series or the A4. So, even though I still contend the comparisons are a bit less apples to apples, the CTS may (in some instances) be cross shopped against an Audi A6 and a BMW 5 series.

    I can't remember the last time I had a car that had an MSRP of less than $50K and I am ready for one, and favorable to an American car as long as it is NOT a LOOOOOOSER (not that I think the CTS is, by any stretch.)

    So, as my wife's guest, on HER 1 year countdown to a new car, I am the not-at-all reluctant passenger on weekend after weekend of test drives of possible suspects to replace her "in today's $" $48,000 BMW X3.

    We tested the Cadillac SRX, Lincoln, MKX, the LandRover HSE, the Acura R and M - DX's, the X5 and of course the X3 (we even tested the Mercedes M class, but it just doesn't do a thing for me, or her.)

    Cut off my legs and call me shorty, we tested the MDX with magna ride (MDX Sport, so named.)

    The thing was $45,000 +. The X3 (just to cite one) was $48,000 +. The Acura had a superior technology package and thusly equipped with the magna ride was good to very good in the handling dept. It was $3,000 less than the X3.

    Just for fun, asked for a 36 month 45 K lease quote (I know some here are anti-lease, to each his/her own): MDX $865/mo. X3 $623/mo. (and the X3 currently is without a "program" so an even more expensive BMW AWD 3 series is actually $613/mo, same deal.)

    Despite the superior sound system and technology package and some otherwise "attractive" features of the MDX, my wife (both an MBA and JD), said, "why would I pay $240 more for a $3,000 less expensive car. The MDX must have a poorer residual and probably a crummy money factor (interest rate.)" Her point, was that the financing arms of companies, although, big and powerful, cannot lose money or gain unreasonable risk -- and, er, make it up in volume. The Fed is the Fed, BMW or Acura Credit is not the Fed.

    Sure residuals can be propped up, and even insured -- but doing so isn't free.

    Her conclusion was that the BMW had the ability to use a higher residual (which it did) because it was actually known to LIKELY be worth more in 36 months than the less expensive MDX would be proportionately speaking.

    My conclusion is that one should look at the MSRP of a car, the acquisition cost of the car as if it were being paid for IN CASH, and then it should have a lease calc run to determine the residual in dollars (even if subvented.)

    What in the wide wide world of sports does all this have to do with the NEW CTS?

    I know the argument (for and against) leasing, that has and is put forth here and else where (on edmunds, and other places.) But, GMAC is a separate company and so is BMW Financial. Not wanting to lose money is compelling. So, if the current on-line calculators are any [even slightly plausible] indication of "retained value" and even representatives of a willingness to sub-vent the cost of money (and I grant, the new CTS and the new Audi and the new BMW, etc etc etc will change the dynamic), it would seem that those who are prone to favor leasing will be able to lease a BMW 3 series for less than a CTS and a BMW 5 series for a reasonably small incremental amount more than the CTS.

    Hopefully, there will be some "programs" for the CTS perhaps after it has been out in the market for a while (6 months?) If not, it would seem that a casual scan of the automobile new car classifieds that seem to overwhelm the Sunday Morning papers would mitigate NOT in favor of acquiring a new CTS, even though it might appear to be the bargain of all bargains. For, if the financing arm of the respective companies reveal their residual, I am not unconvinced that their figures do, in some way, represent "the market."

    The X3 had a residual of, as I recall, 64% for the lease I mentioned. The Acura was much lower.

    For the leasing crowd, an otherwise attractive $45,000 CTS may be "priced beyond one's ability to justify and rationalize" even though the competition may be some 10% -12% higher in MSRP.

    Apples and apples, the $45K MDX were it the exact same cost as the X3 (at $48K) on a lease, would be very attractive. Apples and apples, based on term and MSRP, the MDX ought to be about 5% less per month, minimum. Instead it is over 30% more. One would have to have a lot of love for two cars that were priced at $45K and $48K to take the $45K model over the $48K model for a 30%+ premium, all other things being monitarily this close.

    Yes, it is too soon to tell, yes, given the paucity of product information about the new CTS, this post is just barely on topic, hanging by a thin thread -- but hopefully the spirit of my meaning, my rationalization for "concern" in other words, is not too far off the mark. For it matters little if you buy or lease, if one car has a (for instance) 20% higher residual and a 10% higher MSRP, it is the one that will most likely have the lowest total cost of "ownership" over a given period regardless of the form of that ownership: buy, finance or lease, for example.

    I keep thinking, "if my $53,000 Audi is $640 per month, a $45,000 Cadillac ought to be ABOUT $537 per month." Hope I'm right. :shades:
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    45K will probably buy you the CTS-V. The base with the 3.6 will be starting at about $35K.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250
    markcincinatti,

    "..... the CTS's advantage (to me at least) of a 5 series wheelbase and dimensions overall that would be much more to my liking than either the 3 series or the A4 ....."

    In a prior post, I listed the sizing of the 08 CTS AWD compared to the 07 530Xi. They were so close you could almost say they were identical in size, but the 530Xi was 373 pounds lighter.

    Somewhere in CarSpace, a link to the brochure for the 2008 5 series was posted and I downloaded that. According to that information, the 535Xi and 08 AWD CTS will be very close in both size and weight- 535Xi is only 98 pounds less than the 08 AWD CTS.

    Bruce
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,101
    Except I will not be shopping for a base car. I will be comparing pretty much maxed out versions to similarly equipped versions.

    There is no way a CTS-V will be, thusly equipped, priced at $45K.

    I still find it encouraging that some here feel a maxed out 300HP AWD CTS will be under $49K.

    Cadillac configuration of an STS, for example, starts out at such a friendly price. Then WHAM the dang thing shoots to over $60K if you want AWD and Magna Ride.

    The new CTS, unless it comes in minimalist option form (meaning packages are not required, unless one wants them to be) will, IMHO, follow the STS's model.

    If I want an AWD version with Navigation and Sat radio, IF I said, I'll bet somehow there will be thousands of dollars worth of other stuff that may come along.

    Probably, for me, that will be just fine. Probably.

    But, some of these cars, especially from Cadillac and Lexus, to name two, pile package after package on top of each other.

    Here's one -- all my cars have heated rear seats. To get them on an Infiniti M35 (for example) requires the Premium package, some $10,500, as I recall.

    I don't know who taught who, but more and more this is the way it seems.

    Complain all you want about the overpriced XYZ from Germany or Sweden or where ever. But when I price some of these cars, I literally wonder how the marketing folks who put these programs and packages together breathe in the vacuums they must inhabit.

    With only what we know at this point, the CTS looks like a really attractive and high feature, function, content and value for the buck car. I simply wonder since more and more of these cars are leased (for right or wrong) why someone wouldn't go for the 530xi over the CTS if the mo pay was "within spittin' distance" of each other.

    Just like I wouldn't pay $865 for a $45K Acrua when I could have a $48K BMW for $623, same terms.

    I'd almost always pay a little more for my favorite, but so many of these cars are more alike than they are different, styling and perhaps some content being the main differentiators. So, that "a little bit more" just doesn't make sense or at least as much sense as it used to.

    I'm looking for different, better and if possible a higher value. If there are almost no compelling reasons to go with one vs the other, I would imagine most people would go with the more expensive MSRP'd product that had the same 36 month cost of ownership.

    Folks writing a $45K check vs a $55K check lump sum may disagree, but even then, the basis for the lower short term cost is, in part, the anticipated rate of depreciation. Planning to keep the car until the wheels turn square? Well, yes that may affect the decision, but with leasing on the rise, it is perhaps not the majority thought process.

    over 75% of BMW's are leased. My local Cadillac dealer says it is over 50% for his products, and rising. I don't know if this is a localized phenom. The BMW number, so says my dealer owner, is not simply a local number.

    I would like the Cadillac as an alternative, a financially sound alternative for my mode of acquisition.

    All speculation at this point.

    And, that's the good news.
  • socalbmmrsocalbmmr Posts: 12
    BMWs are hard to say no to when the lease is so compelling. On a 3-series, you're looking at a quoted 60% residual value for 12k/year 3year lease and a money factor (as of right now) of about .0015. CHEAP!!

    If the new CTS can compete at that level, and still be a few $$K less out the door, then it'll be a slam-dunk.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    You do realize that Edmunds doesn't make options available on vehicles, right? We just post what manufacturers give us :)

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I think you misunderstood what I meant. I e-mailed Cadillac, on be-half of the edmund.com's 2008' Cadillac CTS forum requesting Magneride be available as a option ;) Kirstie, most of us are magneride (Magnetic Ride Control) fans ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    It's amazing how such a expensive BMW, can be so cheap. :surprise:

    It will be interesting to see how expensive those new M3's will be ? ;) I'd be willing to bet once the new M3 comes out it will have the highest residual on the market ! ;)

    Rocky
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I think the highest residual will be the new Mini. Nice car, actually.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Really ? That is almost hard to believe. ;)

    Rocky
  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    http://www.gminsidenews.com
    is the main site.
    http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45902
    is the thread that mentions Mulberry leather upholstery.
    There are a lot of amateur and pro. photos of the CTS on other threads.
  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    "I can't remember the last time I had a car that had an MSRP of less than $50K"
    How very nice to know. And how big is your thang?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    That Opel GT looks very cool ral1960. I really appreciate you giving us those links pal. I also really appreciate the inside news on the 2008' Caddy CTS "gadgets" and "stuff" ;) Wow, it's dressed to impress. :shades:
    Hey pal do you know if this new 08' CTS has "voice recognition" capability's ? Ya know via a push of a button and say/speak
    "CD play disc 4 track 8" or "find nearest ATM" "display gas stations" or "find nearest mexican resturant" :blush:

    ATTENTION:

    Hey "readreader" where r u pal ? I miss ya and hope if you see this message you will let us know u r okay pal. I miss your pics and analysis :)

    Thanks,

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I've done a little research today on how cheap BMW leases are and it's either the state of Texas, with their
    "balloon only leases" or somebody is feeding you full of B.S. because my numbers aren't adding up on the payment calculator :confuse:

    I priced up a $45K BMW 335i and with $2500 down, 36 months, 15K a year I was looking at $842 a month :surprise:

    Maybe you can explain ?????

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    ROTFLMAO !!!! :D

    Rocky
  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    His balloon needed pricking. And maybe the reverse is true, also.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    ROTF !!!!! I thought about his BMW's being so cheap to lease all weekend at the Lake and decided to take some time this Sunday evening to see how true that is. What I found is unless you get a special lease offer on a particular model which is usually a base model you will pay a lot more for a monthly lease than what he claims unless I missing something and the payment calculator on the BMW site is wrong ???? Hell If I could lease a BMW M3 for regular CTS money it would be worth looking at for me as a option. ;)

    Rocky
  • jpennjpenn Posts: 68
    While I think the Opel GTC concept is an attractive car I'd hate to see it manifest itself as the new CTS coupe. does anyone have information regarding this. I saw in the press release that it may become the new Saturn coupe in the States.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,101
    I went to the BMW dealer. I sat across from a sales rep. I asked about two BMW's. The price of both of them was north of $46,000 (which is where I think the CTS will be.)

    I went to an Acura dealer. Same routine, this time, I asked about the price for an MDX w/sport package.

    Actually, repeated the exercise with a Volvo V8 XC90

    My criteria:

    36/45K (and if no maint, tell me the cost of main for required items for 45K)

    Assume: first mo payment.
    Assume: Ohio sales tax paid in one lump
    Assume: 50 50 chance of sec dep (and please tell me)

    I had checked the on line calculations, but as I have come to learn, the on line calcs are pretty much all over the board as far as reality goes. A reason seems to be the cap costs -- and my criteria says "no cap cost -- unless provided in the form of off MSRP."

    I am looking to break the $50K barrier and still get an ELLPS or LPS with AWD and what is generally termed "technology" package.

    As of March -- either a BMW X3 or 335xi can be had, thusly equipped, etc, for numbers UNDER $640. Apparently, so can a $54K Volvo XC90, but I am somewhat suspect of this number because the person who did the calculations would not meet with me personally, there was a runner in between who kept going between us -- and the numbers, at first, kept coming back at 72 months for a buy, not 36 months for a lease.

    In any case, using the BMW store's numbers, compared to the Acura store's, etc, the BMW had a residual as high as 64% and as low as 61%. The Volvo was 47%, the Acura was kept secret.

    A $48K BMW compared to a $45,995 Acura, for instance, was over $200 less per month, same deal and the BMW did come with full maintenance which, over 45K miles is probably, worth at least $500 (more if I had to buy the $80 wiper blades that we seem to go through every 6 months, I'd imagine.)

    Full disclosure -- the current car's lease is up in about ~ 12 months. We will be placing an order in ~9 months, for a new car -- we told every dealership this. We told them this is how we shop and that we would be expecting a 2008 and that any price they gave us today would only be to place the cars in some sort of "current perspective."

    That is, we all know the Fed could lower interest rates, which may lower money factors on leases. Residual calculations may warrant improvements (or not) in residuals and the overall state of the world may dictate off MSRP discounts (or not) that we don't know about now.

    The cars in question are from about $46K to $54K.

    I would never expect certain cars to be "pushed" -- the Audi S4, the BMW M3, perhaps a CTS-V fits in there too.

    We (my wife and I) were looking at more "mundane" (if somehting that costs $50K can be called mundane) cars. We are both tired of being told "nicely equipped" for $39K.

    The new CTS is appealing on so many fronts, but then again, the STS was too -- and I couldn't make it work. If BMW subvents its cars, it must do so because they can afford to do so based either on their cost of money (which I doubt would be seriously different than the other guys) or their willingness to claim and live by higher residuals. Subvented or not, TODAY, there are $46K cars that lease at a number beginning with an "8" and $48K cars that do the same thing with numbers beginning with a "6" and then they include maintenance.

    It is true the MSRP of so many of our cars over the years has been over $50K, but even at $53,286, my Audi is $640 and change per month for a 36/45K lease. That was 2005, it may not be repeated, I know this.

    The Cadillac appeals because it is an American car. Further, it appeals for its size and apparent content. Many here seem to believe it will NOT tickle the underbelly of $50K -- even though the STS experience would seem to contradict this.

    But I am not speaking of a base car, rather of the AWD version with "all" the technology -- I do not dispute that the CTS RWD with perhaps one "premium" option may well remain below $40K.

    Most folks, when confronted with, for instance, a $46K car from company "A" that leases for mid "$8's" and also having a $48K car from company "B" that leases for low to mid "$6's" will consider the car from "B" if they are in any way comparable modes of transportation and creature comfort.

    I do not have a BMW, I have never personally owned one. My wife has had two (1988 and 2005.) They SEEM to be so much lower in price than so many other cars out there when one considers leasing. They (on the LPS board) are the number one or number two selling car month after month, due I assume, in no small measure to their lease prices (and over 75% of them are leased, according to my BMW dealer.)

    I priced using the Internet and Cincinnati area dealerships.

    The new CTS, I would imagine, will not have any programs initially. The current Cadillacs (but NOT ALL of them) have some handsome incentives -- if this keeps us, the new CTS when it is no longer BRAND NEW and in the spotlight, may well be both the car and the bargain I'm hoping it will be.

    :surprise:
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well the Bimmer's lease calculator with $2,500 down was $842 a month 36/45K for $45K. I don't know how you are getting these $400-600 a month lease prices unless you are buying cars with special lease programs ? :confuse:

    Rocky
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,101
    You sat across from a sales rep in an authorized BMW dealer and discussed an X3 and a 3 series? (I had previously mentioned I had discussed the X3 and I had previously mentioned that cars like the Audi S4 and BMW hot rods are rarely if ever subject to "subventing.")

    "I went to the BMW dealer. I sat across from a sales rep. I asked about two BMW's. The price of both of them was north of $46,000 (which is where I think the CTS will be.)"

    I called my BMW rep and these numbers, reported earlier, by me, still hold. The web configurators are, at best, approximations -- but they should be consulted, for they do represent a starting point.

    One thing, the $2,500 cap cost that is on the web, is required -- but not from the customer. The dealer, should he/she be so inclined is very able to provide this reduction (as did ours.)
  • socalbmmrsocalbmmr Posts: 12
    Thanks for those links!!

    I think in order to compete (and stand out) in this segment, the CTS will have to offer some compelling color options/combos above and beyond the standard fare. Audi has done well with the taxi-cab yellow S4's, both standard 3's and M3's have interesting interior colors (cinnamon, terra brown, etc etc) that really pop....

    Price of entry I think in this segment...
  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    I'm encouraged that GM is putting more multi-color interiors in cars like the 08 Malibu and Enclave. I've resolved that after all-gray interiors since 1984, my next car will not be neutral or monochromatic inside.

    Someone several pages ago said he'd heard from his local dealer that a cloth interior would be standard on the base model CTS. I took that to the cadillacowners.com forum and got chewed out by a snotty 4th gen. Cadillac dealer from L.A. Of course, he'd never experienced humidity like we have in NC, so he had no idea why anyone wouldn't want leather in a luxury car.

    Speaking of pig-headed posters, I realized many of the threads at GMI (as gminsidenews is known) degenerate into the same arguments and opinions over and over again. Still, most GM developments show up there, so it's worth visiting, if only to get a link to a news article at another site.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well I doubt the calculator is $200-300 off per month. I will call on a BMW 335i sedan lease maybe tommorow just to see. ;)

    Rocky
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,101
    I'll redo, too!

    335xi with sat nav, premium and a couple other things.

    X3 ditto.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Mark, I got busy today buying a used family car. Perhaps I can give it a try in the next few days. :)

    Rocky
Sign In or Register to comment.