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2008 Cadillac CTS

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Comments

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,107
    I'd want anyone I care about and practically anyone I know to have AWD as their daily driver -- I cannot even imagine what would make one of these worse than not having it at all.

    The new CTS AWD will have a performance oriented (rear biased, too) system that, despite the weight penalty, will, I'll wager make the CTS AWD the most capable of the line, under almost all circumstances (excluding off road, of course, since this is NOT the purpose of this vehicle.)

    :shades:
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Only downside is that the General doesn't have a manual AWD tranny so the CTS w/AWD will still only have an AT, but this is common on most AWD systems on vehicles these days.

    -mike
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,107
    6 speed AT, yes?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    6 speed AT, yes?

    They do have a 6 speed AT w/AWD that is found in the Denali and Escalade that they could probably shoe-horn into the CTS if need be. I'm not certain of the physical setup on that trans/transfer case and would need to see if it could be used on a car-based platform.

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The AWD will only come with a 6-speed automatic from all the reports I read. I was disappointed to learn that. :sick:

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The AWD will only come with a 6-speed automatic from all the reports I read. I was disappointed to learn that.

    Rocky


    I think the only V8 AWD MTs on the market are the Audis. I don't know of any other AWD V8 on the market anywhere. I think that's only the S4 and S6(maybe?)

    -mike
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250
    markcincinnati,

    Not trying to go OT with info on BMW, but regarding the performance of AWD versus RWD, according to the BMW brochures the 335 AWD accelerates a bit faster to 60 than the 335 RWD, and the 535 AWD accelerates a bit faster to 60 than the 535 RWD.

    I was surprised by that, and will be curious to see if anything similar occurs on the CTS AWD versus CTS RWD, especially with the higher output engine (for the lower powered 328 and 528 BMWs, the RWD cars accelerate a bit faster than the AWD cars).

    Bruce
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Also any info on the RWD v. AWD 300c acceleration?

    -mike
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,107
    The weight penalty of AWD -- all other things being equal -- explains the tick or two loss of quickness.

    Several manufacturers, Audi being one of them, have demonstrated the cars with AWD can and do perform at the top of the heap, time and again.

    Audi has done similar things with diesel.

    The point is well taken, AWD does add weight. Weight, generally speaking is NOT good.

    Yet there are performance "gets" for the weight "gives" -- and in the best desgined and executed systems, you "gets" more than you "gives."

    Cadillac, practically speaking, with the CTS that you and I might end up with is probably not claiming they will bring a CTS to market with AWD that will be as quick as the one with only RWD.

    For many of us, however, we will appreciate the overall package with AWD more than the one with only RWD.
  • jpennjpenn Posts: 68
    Ok, now we're really getting way off the subject of the 2008 CTS but here my real life story which took place just yesterday in Beautiful Upstate Central New York. You be aware that we received apprx. 12-14 inches of wet heavy snow yesterday (it's still snowing today, by the way). It happens that I had an appt. to take my 2002 Acura MDX in for some work and was given a new FWD Acura TL as a loaner. The trip to the dealership in my MDX was not pleasant but was no big deal it got through every type of snow hazard without a problem. Coming home was a completely different story. The TL was very skittish on snow covered up hills and was impossible on my uphill driveway ( I had to wait for the plow guy in order to get into the garage).

    The point of all of this is that I will not consider an 08 CTS without AWD even if it weighs more and is outperformed by RWD simply because in the real world scenario I need it.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Ok, now we're really getting way off the subject of the 2008 CTS but here my real life story which took place just yesterday in Beautiful Upstate Central New York. You be aware that we received apprx. 12-14 inches of wet heavy snow yesterday (it's still snowing today, by the way).

    I too was upstate yesterday around albany. I saw no less than 20 cars off the road on the Northway and NYS Thruway. Funniest one of all was a NYS Trooper sitting down an embankment in the center median. He wasn't a happy camper!

    Alas back to the 2008 CTS. Any word on the CTS V?

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Any word on the CTS V?

    Good question........ ;)

    Rocky
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Several manufacturers, Audi being one of them, have demonstrated the cars with AWD can and do perform at the top of the heap, time and again.

    Audi and a couple of others make proper systems. And they work very well. I highly recommend a Subaru or Audi. But almost everyone else makes systems that are "all-wheel-drive" in name only. They just don't work as well as they should and give people a false sense of security. This is like putting a deadbolt on your door and leaving the non-reinforced wood frame still there.

    Well, gosh - they kicked the door in in 2 seconds regardless of your new fancy security feature. AWD systems that are half-baked implementations of the technology, mostly to save the cost of a second transfer case are also similarly ineffective in an emergency.

    So let's see... CTS with all-wheel drive(FWD biased because of the automatic transmission, most likely) versus RWD and stickshift. No-brainer decision.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    So let's see... CTS with all-wheel drive(FWD biased because of the automatic transmission, most likely) versus RWD and stickshift. No-brainer decision.

    WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING IT WILL HAVE A FWD BIAS?

    Look at the 300c, 4-Matic, BMW, and several other vehicles that are RWD based cars. Guess what? They have a RWD or 50/50 bias.

    This is also not an AWD discussion, so let's put that aside.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Tuning Host
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I still have no faith in GM of all companies to put the R&D into making a proper AWD system on a car. They haven't so far on their past attempts.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Do some reading on the Holden AWD system. It will give you insight to the GM AWD on a RWD Platform.

    -mike
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,107
    It is likely that other than 0-to-something that the RWD will outperform the AWD CTS. Relax.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    ...that AWD has much to offer me once the temperature rises above freezing & the snow goes away. In my NYC suburb, there are no more than 10 days in any given year when AWD confers real value. I can work at home on those days, but if I have to go out, the family stable includes a 4WD Honda CR-V. Given that, why should I put up with the cost, complexity & performance hit that come with AWD?

    I'm at least 2 years away from replacing my RWD BMW 330i. If I do pick the CT-S (& I like the little that I've seen so far), then make mine a 6-speed manual RWD.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    ...that AWD has much to offer me once the temperature rises above freezing & the snow goes away. In my NYC suburb, there are no more than 10 days in any given year when AWD confers real value. I can work at home on those days, but if I have to go out, the family stable includes a 4WD Honda CR-V. Given that, why should I put up with the cost, complexity & performance hit that come with AWD?

    I'm at least 2 years away from replacing my RWD BMW 330i. If I do pick the CT-S (& I like the little that I've seen so far), then make mine a 6-speed manual RWD.


    That's cool you can definitely pick up the 6-speed MT, if they make a 6-speed MT in a non-CTSV version.

    As for living in a NYC Suburb, so do I! Amazingly we have completely contrasting views on this, but that's the beauty of America!

    -mike
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,805
    I tend to agree, I have lived in the midwest all but a few years of my life and the years I didn't live here I was in Alaska. I have only had a few times when a RWD car would have been no good. Most of those times an AWD sedan would have been useless too.

    What really amazes me is all the AWD cars in ditches right after a major snow fall.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    What really amazes me is all the AWD cars in ditches right after a major snow fall.

    Well it's All Wheel Go, not All Wheel Stop :)

    Last weekend on my way home from Lake George to NYC in the snow/ice/slush we saw no less than 12 Jeeps off on the sides of the roads, 3 chevy Impalas, 2 Thunderbirds, and 1 Ford Crown Victoria State Trooper!

    Even with AWD, you need to drive with care, however, having driven both, and raced both, I'll take AWD anyday depending on the system.

    -mike
  • jpennjpenn Posts: 68
    Well said paisan. Here in Upstate New York it's known as "the arrogance of All Wheel Drive". AWD doesn't make you a better or smarter driver.

    As for living in NYC...I'll take the snow.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,578
    [[ Applies to any car – including the CTS. ]]

    The hallowed ( in the USofA ) and reasonably standard 0-60 time measurement is occasionally subject to an issue of shift points. BMW, in particular, often seems to ignore any relevance to 0-60 acceleration times in picking gear ratios.

    The last BMW 530 test I happen to have handy ( $50K sedan comparison test from C+D ) shows MPH / 1,000 RPM for the 530’s second gear at 9.2, with a final drive ratio of 3.46:1. RPM limit is 6,500. This means that the second to third gear shift occurs JUST before the 0-60 MPH ( or 0-100KM \ 62 MPH ) time is recorded – slowing that time to some degree.

    The 535i and 535xi numbers I have show the heavier AWD xi quicker ( by 1 tenth ) than the 535i.

    Now, the rev limit of the new 335 & 535 motor appears to be increased to 7,000 RPM.

    The 535xi has the same 3.45:1 final drive – but with the increased RPM limit, my ** GUESS ** is that now the 535xi will hold second gear just PAST 60. Avoiding the time lost to that additional shift.

    And the 535i has a final drive ratio of 3.64:1. Approx a 5% difference – and will likely ( along with the fact that it will weigh less ) result in quicker acceleration within any particular gear range. But will show as ‘less quick’ than the 535xi, if that second to third gear shift in the 535i occurs just before 60 MPH – causing that additional shift time to be included.

    Clear?
    - Ray
    NOT a drivetrain engineer . . .
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Posts: 317
    To me the all important time is the 45 to 75 time. That is what gets me past the semi I am following without making me a splat on the one coming in the opposite direction.
  • Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knows the answer to a few questions about the 2008 CTS as I have found no decisive answers from scouring the net...

    1. Does it have bluetooth? (I read somewhere it does, but its GM, so I doubt it).

    2. Is there a rearview camera? (seems like just rearview ultrasonic sensor maybe).

    3. Are the voice activated features voice-sensing like in acura and other cars or do you have to record preset voice tags? (because the press release made it seem like their were voice tags, so i'm not sure how GM does their voice activated systems, if they are available in their cars currently).
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,805
    Well it's All Wheel Go, not All Wheel Stop

    I know that, you know that most people know that. What most likely got them in the ditch was an over reliance on AWD.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,107
    Not that I know:

    1. Bluetooth - yes, no, but.

    Yes it will have bluetooth, no, not in the United States, only in Europe, but, "later" in the US (said to be 6 months into the production) -- translates into "late, late availability in the US."

    2. Rearview camera? Can't find it anywhere, but parktronic, assuming it is available from the get go has served me well since 2000. The RVC plus parktronic is supposed to be the best of all worlds, assuming there is also front parktronic.

    My best guess is "no RVC."

    Also no pushbutton start.

    Editorial: I have pushbutton start. It was a $750 option in 2005 on my Audi A6. I use it about 1/3 of the time to start the car. The damn key plus the fob is so big, I hate having it in my pocket, so it ain't no THANG to stick the key in and turn it. BUT, the cool thing about the smart key is that when you approach the car and your hands are mostly full, the car knows its you and unlocks the doors you have programmed. This is a really nice feature.

    I could give a cuss about pushing a button to start the car -- but since it is now even on the far far less expensive Nissans, it would seem a "me too" feature that you ought to put on the car just to shut some of us up.

    My personal taste in pushing a button is not relevant to you, of course, but for pity's sake, I do like it when the car recognizes it is you and doesn't force you to fool around finding a button on a fob to push, especially in the winter when the key is buried deep in your inside coat pocket.

    Ah, the height of laziness.

    ummmm, #3

    Acura and Infiniti seem to have some pretty slick voice tech -- my Audi is OK. At least I can recite phone numbers without training it and the nav system's voice works well, too as it does for the sound system.

    I know not what Cadillac will or can do -- it would seem AT MINIMUM to need to be up to the OK Audi standards. The Acura TL's system is impressive -- I cannot imagine the Cadillac, if it has one, will be anywhere close.

    Back again to Nissan Altima -- this voice tech must now be super cheap. And, now that I have had "OK" voice tech for almost 3 years, I believe it is a safety feature. It was cool for about 15 minutes.

    My 2005 Audi, like many of the new breed of cars has (from the driver's seat) 82 knobs, dials, switches, buttons, dials and other stuff to push, twist, poke, slide, click and rotate. Without voice how could you drive the thing PLUS ever make a phone call (my phone is 100% hand and eyes free thanks to voice.) The point is, if the CTS has anywhere close to the number of buttons and do dads that a three year old Audi has (and it has MMI to boot!) and lacks voice command, well, more's the pity.

    Drive it like you live. :shades:
  • And, now that I have had "OK" voice tech for almost 3 years, I believe it is a safety feature. It was cool for about 15 minutes.

    Often tech seems to be added just for that "cool" factor. When I looked at an Acura TL a couple of years back, that was my first thought re the Bluetooth. "Cool" However, I agree that that is a worthwhile bit of tech and will definitely be something high on my list for my next car. If a Nissan Altima has it, there's no excuse for a Cadillac (or Lincoln, since that's what I now drive) to have it, and have it now.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,578
    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21392627-5012441,00.html

    "He says it will be in the 2009 Cadillac CTS, which is almost certain for Australia as Holden looks to boost its prestige business with Cadillac and Hummer.

    The diesel is a 2.9-litre four-valve V6 turbo-diesel with 184kW and 550Nm. "

    Perhaps in the USofA also?
  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    Push button start (with auto unlocking when the fob approaches the car) is an option.
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