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Acura MDX vs BMW X5

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  • anon3anon3 Posts: 147
    edited May 2010
    [[I wrote this response before realizing that you responded to a post from almost a year ago. Sigh.]]

    You wrote: "the people I know that buy the bimmer dump in after the 3 year free maint..."

    BMW's factory maintenance isn't three years. It's four years or 50,000 miles, so the theory about BMW getting their money back from their customers at the three-year mark through exuberant repair costs doesn't hold water.

    Regarding the original discussion thread:

    I read consumer reports like everyone else. Then I compare it to my own (extensive) experience with BMW and I put more weight on personal experience. None of my BMWs in the past 9 year has required a single factory warranty repair, with the exception of a 2002 745i. I've had 14 BMWs since 1997 including 6 X5s and now a 7th 2011 X5 on order. My X5s have been universally defect free, even the ones that I ran past the 50,000 mile warranty.

    Context in reliability reports is everything. Unfortunately, most readers don't use enough brain cells to consider the context. Long term Consumer Reports numbers and JD Power 3-year reliability studies use an "industry average" as a benchmark for comparison of individual makes and models. That average is measured by the number of defects per 100 vehicles. As the automotive industry continues to improve quality, the benchmark average decreases and individual makes can look worse by comparison even when their reliability has actually improved. That average number is heavily affected by the makes at the bottom. When the worst ones improve, the average increases significantly.

    Case in point: In the 2010 JD Power 3-year vehicle dependability study, BMW's rank declined to slightly below the industry average. Did BMW's quality get worse? No. BMW's reliability actually improved. The difference was that the industry average improved by a greater margin (to 155 problems per 100 vehicles down from 170) and therefore, by comparison, BMW slipped. In Consumer Reports, that would generate a half-black circle. That looks bad when you dumb it down into a graphic that Ma and Pa Kettle can comprehend in two seconds. But that change indicates no material difference in the real world.

    If a Ma and Pa Kettle took the time to look at the actual numbers, they'll see that the most dependable brand (Porsche) had 110 problems per 100. BMW had 165. Is that a big difference?

    For comparison between Acura and BMW: Acura has 143 problems per 100. BMW has 165 problems per 100. Is your vehicle going to have 1.43 or 1.65 defects? Is that difference significant? No. Either way, you're likely to have 1 or 2 defects that will be repaired under warranty.

    When you break the numbers down by model, BMW had the best reliability in some categories like Compact Premium Sporty Car. Acura wasn't tops in any category.

    So again, as Nestleman stated, it comes down to personal preference and which vehicle you're going to enjoy driving. The real numbers say that reliability is not likely to be a significant difference between BMW and Acura. Although, everything else being equal, I'll take the car with zero maintenance and repair costs for four years.

    Now, for the really interesting numbers: Some of the best 3-year scores were earned by US manufacturers. Lincoln, Buick, and Mercury took 3 of the 5 top spots. And Buick beat Lexus in vehicle dependability. That's an improvement.
  • minihopefulminihopeful Posts: 14
    Good thread, as I just went through this evaluation recently and ended up with the new MDX. Right off the bat, I'll admit what I wanted was the X5 diesel. I tend to favor driving dynamics & opulence in any car I buy. However, that isn't to say I'm willing to pay any price for it. Without going into all the details, I'll just summarize my personal verdict by saying the MDX won on virtually all convenience and practicality measures, while the X5 was the winner in the performance-oriented categories. I went with the Tech and Entertainment packages, which when comparably equipped, the best offer I got on the X5d was still $12K more, and without the 2.9 APR like with the MDX (now 1.9). Whatever advantages the X5d has over the new MDX, I just didn't feel they were $12K+ worth.

    For those considering both choices, you can't really go wrong with either one.
  • Car and driver stated it best when it compated X5 MDX XC90 ect....

    Anyone with any issues can show me their professional experience test driving and rating cars....nuff said

    You'll be happy to know that this second-gen Acura MDX — which still sounds to us like a medical condition — was victorious almost everywhere it poked its gaudy grille. Check it out: Greatest skidpad grip. Highest lane-change speed. Second-quickest sprint to 60 mph. Best driving position. Best back-seat comfort. Lightest curb weight. Steering and brake feel that were tied with the BMW's. A ride as cushy as the Benz's. And a fun-to-drive rating equaled only by the Cadillac's. All of that for the lowest as-tested price.
  • BTW they have profession experience test driving and evaluating cars....doubt any of us have that on our resume.

    You'll be happy to know that this second-gen Acura MDX — which still sounds to us like a medical condition — was victorious almost everywhere it poked its gaudy grille. Check it out: Greatest skidpad grip. Highest lane-change speed. Second-quickest sprint to 60 mph. Best driving position. Best back-seat comfort. Lightest curb weight. Steering and brake feel that were tied with the BMW's. A ride as cushy as the Benz's. And a fun-to-drive rating equaled only by the Cadillac's. All of that for the lowest as-tested price.
  • Regarding the steering wheel, I have to disagree. I am speaking about Non-Advance package. The steering is definitely on the loose side when you compare it with X5.
  • I've had 14 BMWs since 1997 including 6 X5s and now a 7th 2011 X5 on order. My X5s have been universally defect free, even the ones that I ran past the 50,000 mile warranty.

    6 X5 in 13 years...that is little over 2 year each....all probably under warranty
    Unless you have owned multiple X5 at the same time..
    even then how many have you owned beyond 80K mark.

    I do agree with you that the difference of 1.63 and 1.43 is not significant for ME to choose one over the other...having said that the fact that industry average has improved at a faster rate than BMW improvement rate does not bode well for BMW.

    MDX is more of a "Value Luxury" while BMW is "Luxury"

    BTW I own a 2008 MDX and my rationale of buying an MDX over X5 was
    1) SUV are not a driving machines
    2) Driving characterstics of MDX are better than X5
    3) For the price of similarly equipped X5 I can buy an MDX and Miata/ base BMW 1 series (may be)/genesis coupe/370Z (may be)...for driving pleasure
  • anon3anon3 Posts: 147
    "BTW they have profession experience test driving and evaluating cars....doubt any of us have that on our resume. "

    You're wrong about that. I can show you over 150 hours of track time behind the wheel of BMWs in addition to having owned 15 of them since the mid 90's, including back to back direct comparison from model to model through daily driving. So I'll stack my credentials up against the media reviewers who spend 30 - 60 minutes in a manufacturer-sponsored test drive before writing their reviews. The only articles in Car and Driver, Motortrend, etc. that I pay any attention to are the long term reports that include comments from multiple drivers over many months and thousands of miles.

    I can feel the difference in the drive train and build quality when I take a honda or toyota product out on the road. The big difference is this: Honda and Toyota start with mass-market, down-market parts and then and dress them up to be a luxury vehicle. Their engines are transmissions are common across all their models and they just tweak the horsepower and torque by a couple percent. So when you pay for an Acura or Lexus, you're getting a dressed up honda or toyota.

    BMW doesn't build anything but BMWs. Look under the hood and you won't find an engine designed to be cost effective in a $22,000 car. They don't build pick-up trucks and dress them up into luxury SUVs. The difference comes from driving a purpose-built vehicle vs a mass produced volume vehicle built from a common parts bins. (And look what happened this year to all those Toyotas built from the common parts bins: the problems hit Lexus and Toyota both because their core drive trains and engine management systems are all the same.)

    Where I live, the MDX is a mini van for soccer moms and grocery stores and are driven from point A to B by people who don't care about driving skill or driving experience. It's just a shiny mass hauler for the upper middle class. If I ever were in the market for a mini-van, I'd certainly consider the MDX.
  • anon3anon3 Posts: 147
    edited September 2010
    "6 X5 in 13 years...that is little over 2 year each....all probably under warranty
    Unless you have owned multiple X5 at the same time. even then how many have you owned beyond 80K mark."


    You show your lack of knowledge about the brand and the vehicle. The X5 hasn't been around for 13 years. The first E53 model was produced as a 2000 model. No X5 stickered over 80k (unless it had every possible option and even then it would be right at $80k) until the X5 M debuted a year ago. Your question about the "80k mark" is irrelevant. That's like asking you how many Honda products have you owned that cost over $80k. The answer is none and it has zero bearing on their reliabilty. But, for the record, I've owned two BMW's that stickered over $100k.

    Then you say "the fact that industry average has improved at a faster rate than BMW improvement rate does not bode well for BMW." You should brush up on your facts and your statistical analytical skills. The point of this thread was to show that the poor performers at the bottom of the list were weighing down the industry average with extremely poor performance. As the bottom quartile improves, the industry average as a whole improves dramatically. And that has no material bearing whatsoever on the reliability of the models at the top of the averages.

    So you don't have any idea what the BMW improvement rate is or what it "bodes for BMW" because you haven't done your homework. And you don't even own a BMW and probably have zero experience with them, so your comments about BMW are just the musings of the uniformed.
  • jensadjensad Posts: 388
    I suspect that servicing your vehicle may be less with the MDX, vs. the BMW. I own an RL and I owned previously a RX 330 and I observed that the labor costs at Lexus was at that time, $ 240/hr vs the Acura labor was $ 120/hour.

    If that is still true/close then over a 3-5 yr period the maintence costs would be significant. Maybe not too relevant however, it will be significant if one owns their vehicle for 5 to 6 yrs.

    My money is on the MDX as we have owned over the years six hondas, and one Lexus and three Acuras. For my money, jmo, Acura takes care of me and my family quite well especially now as I am retired.

    Good luck to all and stay safe.

    jensad :)
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited September 2010
    Sanjaysdca writes:
    "1) SUV are not a driving machines
    2) Driving characterstics of MDX are better than X5
    3) For the price of similarly equipped X5 I can buy an MDX and Miata/ base BMW 1 series (may be)/genesis coupe/370Z (may be)...for driving pleasure"

    Right there you have just told the world that you should never be a BMW customer. Driving for you is just getting from point A to point B in comfort. A BMW would be wasted on you. I'm sure someone at BMW thanks you for not buying their vehicle because you probably would just complain about it endlessly.

    And your item #3 is just plain wrong. You can't buy an MDX and a second new car for the price of a similarly equipped X5. I'd love to see the math that allowed you to arrive at that conclusion.

    All this is just pointless banter if we don't define the comparison. The X5 vs MDX comparisons that I've read over the past years compare a base model X5 with BMW's old engines to an MDX.

    So here's a list of choices that BMW offers and that you CAN'T get from an Acura MDX.
    1) Choice of 4 engines ranging from diesel to 555 hp twin-turbo V8. (The MDX offers one engine, one size fits all.)
    2) A vehicle that is easily customizable to your preferences (from luxury to pure performance), custom ordered and delivered in as little as 4 weeks. (80% of BMWs are custom ordered by buyers instead of mass produced with options selected by Honda and dumped onto dealers' lots.)
    3) Advanced, direct-injection engines that improve both performance and mpg. (Honda uses 10-year-old technology in its engines).
    4) 8 speed transmission to improve performance and mpg. Honda just introduced its first 6 speed transmissions in 2010.
    5) A vehicle made in the US (South Carolina) creating jobs for Americans. The MDX is made in Canada.
    6) An SUV that gets 28 mpg highway. The best you'll get from an MDX is 21 mpg.
    7) An SUV that will go 0 - 62 in 4.7 seconds or less.
    8) A manufacturer that is first to market with new technology that the others copy and a manufacturer that defines new auto market segments that others mimic. (The X5 was the first SUV of its kind, defined the performance/luxury SUV market segment, and was later copied by Honda, Toyota, etc.)
    9) Real wood trim and premium nappa leather, even on the dashboard.

    So the MDX would be a great choice if you're looking for a solid performing entry level luxury SUV that is relatively inexpensive because it's built from a mass-produced Honda platform using 5 and 10-year-old drive train technology. It's a great vehicle for people who don't want to be bothered by choices beyond color and electronics. It's also a great vehicle if you're willing to trade fit and finish for lower price.

    [By the way, here's what thetruthaboutcars.com had to say about the 2010 MDX: "Sadly, the interior door pulls, the first point of contact when getting into the car, are composed entirely of the stuff [cheap metallic plastic]. The switchgear might be good by the standards of a decade ago, but the target has been moving upwards. The overall fit and finish of the interior (or lack thereof) is clearly second tier among premium brands. The door-to-dash panel fit is downright awful. Even GM’s interiors are more tightly and precisely constructed lately, and the new SRX looks and feels much nicer inside than the latest MDX. Overall, with the 2010 refresh Acura hasn’t done enough to keep the MDX competitive."]
  • May be I was not too clear

    What I should have said that beyond 80000 miles NOT $80K.

    Also anyone, in my opinion, , buys a SUV/crossover for a driving experience is fooling him/herself. Mazda 3/Genesis coupe can run circles around any SUV

    And you are right I have not owned a BMW and probably will never own one. Having said that I have had Audi S6 that has satiated my need for a drivers car.

    As the bottom quartile improves, the industry average as a whole improves dramatically

    You said it yourself bottom quartile has improved that has improved the industry average, but BMW has not improved....

    and yes I know that that it is easier to improve the bottom quartile

    Statistics is like a bikini...what it shows is suggestive and what is hides is vital
    you can spin it any way and that is what a good statistical analysis is all about how you use the tool

    For example you can use the statistics to design a very reliable product or you can use the tool such that the product fails right after warranty...

    I know that because I consulted with a company that wanted its microwave to fail between 12 month (the warranty period) and 18 months (Threshold at which people buy new and not service)...because service calls generate more money then buying new

    Yes I know statistics and data analysis.

    So may be BMW is very smart and do not want to design extremely reliable products as they have a "cult" following and people will buy/defend the products no matter what.

    MDX beats X5 in car and driver test
    Last gen A6 beats new BMW 5 series in car and driver test.

    No perceived or real reliability & now driviability showing cracks....definately does not bode well for BMW.

    and before moderators chuck us out I think I will refrain from replying any comments that attack me personally like:

    You show your lack of knowledge about the brand and the vehicle.
    you probably are right here
    You should brush up on your facts and your statistical analytical skills
    you are way out here my friend.
    because you haven't done your homework
  • I don't get SOME of BMW owners that defend a car that is not that reliable, and b4 anyone jumps on my back, my dad and uncle and I both have BMW's, My dad and Uncle have 7 series and the X5,and I own a BMW 5 series 535i cuz my dad bought it for me. ..... Let's Get Real Here for One Sec.......... JMO

    1. No one in their right minds is going to go no faster than 150hp if you're lucky to even hit 150hp so the whole concept of 4 engines is useless unless you plan on going to a racetrack for the next 3 to 5 years testing your car, so really the car is wasted already, cuz no one really has pushed it to it's limits long enough to really see or know what BMW's can or will do

    2. Custom ordered is another way to say " BUY BUY BUY MY PLASTIC SHINNY PRODUCT AND STYLE IT THE WAY WE THE BMW WANT IT TO GO ON YOUR CAR", cuz truth be told unless you go to coast customs, or any real custom detailer, your still just getting "A BMW PART", I know this cuz my friend works for a BMW company and that's pretty much what it is, Custom IMO should not look like someone can or will get it, cuz all bmw's look alike to me, from Dashboards to the tail end of the car. JMO, it's suppose to be Custom MADE

    3. Again I don't care what people say about any other car, but unless you USE and I MEAN USE that pretty new ENGINE that you over paid thousands of dollars for that really don't cost that much anyway, then hey nothing lost, other wise YOU JUST WASTED YOUR MONEY ON A ENGINE YOU DON"T EVEN USE, why you asked..... again go to my number 1 reason, case closed

    4. Transmissions, all I'm gonna say is times are changing, and if demand asked for a new one, then hey go for it, just make it work, ever car company has done it.

    5. PLEASE STOP BLAMING OVER SEAS FOR THEIR PRODUCTS, WE ALL USE THEM, OTHERWISE GIVE UP THE BMW, SAMSUNG, SONY or ANY OTHER PRODUCT, Bmw is NOT 100% American

    6. X5 does 18city 22 highway, if that, and that depends on who's the lead foot

    7. No one here can say what the 0 to 60 does unless you have done it yourself, everyone is different, and drive different and stops and goes different, other wise lose the fancy security feature for helping drivers with the car in front of you that suddenly stops..... case close (JMO)

    8. Unless the BMW manufacturer grows some sense ( I mean that with the most respect tho) to build a reliable Car...... NO COMMENT

    9. Real wood trim and premium nappa leather, even on the dashboard... names, names, names,.... ummm, contemp Wood.. sorry, again my friend works for BMW, and it's just polished with this chemical I forgot the name of it, but that's what it is, REAL WOOD does age and does not have food coloring, and anyone that doesn't know that should go back to school, we humans polish the wood to keep it from aging to a degree that it doesn't look bad, which in the end makes the wood itself into a matel doll, so it's REAL CONTEMP WOOD trim, ok, we have all hadleather b4 so if that same Nappa Leather ends up on a Ford model, don't cry, just 4 the BMW owners they will call it CUSTOM leather..... JMO

    10. EVERY CAR IS NOT PREFECT...if it was no one would need comparisons

    But other than that I like both cars, just had to ask my dad, uncle about their friends that own one, and not many can say that they push their car to the point of how or what there car can or can't do, again back to the engine, no one needs that much hp, cuz you will NEVER touch it. JMO
  • I have been following this thread closely as my lease is up on my Lexus RX350. While I LOVE the Lexus, I will be buying it off lease for my wife and trying something new with more space and a 3rd row. I am down to the MDX and X5.

    I have been researching this decision for some time now and it seems pretty clear that the MDX is a more reliable vehicle. I don't just get this from Consumer Reports or the other online/print reviews, but from BMW owner's forums, personal experience with BMW owners (7 series, 3 series and X5 owners) as well as BMW technicians and oddly enough, their salespeople. Just this past weekend I test drove a X5 diesel. I really liked it, and I WANT to go with the X5. I prefer the front end of the X5 and the price is very good right now with the $4,500 incentive, but the salesman also used to sell Acura and said there is no question that the Acura is more reliable, and less costly to maintain He kept saying that the BMW is the ultimate driving machine, but I can't expect it to be as reliable as an Acura.

    Even though the X5 has maintenance included I don't want to be a habitual leaser so I would like the option of buying it after the lease is up. It is true, BMW fans are a lot like Apple fans. They will worship at the ialter no matter how bad the new iphone or iPad is, or how many times AT&T drops their calls. BMW has similar fans. I am one. I love the way they look and drive and WANT to ignore the rest. I just don't like the idea of spending $60k then being forced to drive a 3 series while the X5 gets repaired. And that is what I have heard happens.

    I am grasping at straws, and looking for just enough reasons to go with BMW. First, they have a local dealership and I'd have to drive a minimum of 90 miles to get an Acura. It should be a no brainer, it's just that there seems to be overwhelming evidence that Acura is more reliable and the X5 isn't even marginally reliable. Even with the MDX's known issues, it pails in comparison to what I have read on the X5. And that is the biggest factor to me. I have driven well over 50,000 flawless, trouble free miles in my Lexus, even through some pretty rough midwest winters, and that is how I prefer it. After I pay almost $50 k for a car, I expect it to be reliable. It used to be worth the extra maintenance and operating expense if you wanted a "driver's" SUV but I think the gap is narrowing. It actually seems like BMW would rather be on the bleeding edge of technology rather than cutting edge. I am NOT a fan of the gear shift at all. Can't I just have a regular gear shift? I would even pay more for it...but I digress. I run a franchised business and that has been beaten down to me over the years from previous and current owners with way more experience than me. They always say be cutting edge, NOT bleeding edge. I actually thought that the MDX was a very nice driver and didn't notice the X5 being that much better though. To me the BMW just looks a lot better.
  • 1) Choice of 4 engines ranging from diesel to 555 hp twin-turbo V8. (The MDX offers one engine, one size fits all.)

    Compare a similarly equipped MDX with X5. Then the other choices do not matter.

    2) A vehicle that is easily customizable to your preferences (from luxury to pure performance), custom ordered and delivered in as little as 4 weeks. (80% of BMWs are custom ordered by buyers instead of mass produced with options selected by Honda and dumped onto dealers' lots.)

    Custom ordering is a feel good marketing effort. A good way for "inventory and price control". I will, if I can, do it in my business. That is an enviable position for BMW

    3) Advanced, direct-injection engines that improve both performance and mpg. (Honda uses 10-year-old technology in its engines).

    Counter point would be its a proven technology.
    SH AWD of Acura is more advanced then the run-off-the-mill AWD of BMW.
    You win some you loose some. Cannot pick and choose.

    4) 8 speed transmission to improve performance and mpg. Honda just introduced its first 6 speed transmissions in 2010.

    I will give this to BMW

    5) A vehicle made in the US (South Carolina) creating jobs for Americans. The MDX is made in Canada.

    See we can justify anything.
    May be should consider Cadillac or Ford Flex. Are they American?
    at least American brands pay more taxes to our gov't.
    Buying BMW because its American? I dont think so.
    Its a hazy line as to what is American.

    6) An SUV that gets 28 mpg highway. The best you'll get from an MDX is 21 mpg.

    You probably are comparing X5d with V6 MDX
    from fueleconomy.gov
    MDX 16 (city) 21 (Hwy) AND
    X5 15 (city) 21 (Hwy)

    7) An SUV that will go 0 - 62 in 4.7 seconds or less.

    performance SUV is an oxymoron term

    8) A manufacturer that is first to market with new technology that the others copy and a manufacturer that defines new auto market segments that others mimic. (The X5 was the first SUV of its kind, defined the performance/luxury SUV market segment, and was later copied by Honda, Toyota, etc.)

    Lexus RX300 was first CUV/SUV that created copycats including MDX/X5

    9) Real wood trim and premium nappa leather, even on the dashboard.

    Interior quality of material is definitely better in X5
    but you pay a lot more in terms of money,
    time (spent for service),
    expensive service,
    and of course driving that 1 or 3 series a lot more than the MDX owner driving the TSX.
  • sjthomassjthomas Posts: 61
    edited September 2010
    I am in a similar fix. I test drove both the MDX, X5 and the Pilot in that order.

    After driving the MDX and X5d, we decided with our instinct that the X5 is the way to go even though it is expensive, the driving dynamics simply can't be matched with an Acura. And like always there lies a but....The third row was a biggest factor for us and BMW's third row is neither for infants nor for toddlers. Forget adults. It is only designed for kids with a booster seat. I will have to wait few more years for that. So that was a deal breaker for us.

    The MDX steering feel was anemic. The road noise sneaking into the cabin is a lot...and somehow I felt claustrophobic in the third row which is probably the case in any SUV with a third row. The second row cannot be moved back and forth to adjust for the extra third row leg room.

    The pilot on the other hand was very good with the steering feel. The engine is OK powered but I guess that is enough for my wife particularly coming from an V4 SUV that we currently have. We drove a touring model with every goodies that Honda can put. Everything felt good except...take this one...on paper. The braking distance is 149 foot....thats a lot for me. The MDX is only 126 feet in dry conditions. In wet conditions, add 15 more feet to those numbers for both. I think this is a deal breaker for me as it rains a lot here and I need a good breaking distance as my wife did a rear end before because of bad breaking.

    So, although the MDX is a so so on drivng, its safe, reliable and cheaper to maintain if any issues. One of my co-worker who has an Acura says it uses all Honda parts which are cheaper to maintain if any issues and he puts plus gasoline.

    Finally we had to decide with the 2011 MDX as we have to prioritize safety, reliability, maintenance before handling, drivers SUV etc etc. Although what we really wanted was an X5, we had to compromise for an MDX for the above reasons. After all, life is a compromise.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited September 2010
    Sanjaya, Let's focus on a few of the incorrect facts in your post that are easily verifiable. You said that it's only valid to compare comparably-equipped vehicles. So let's play by your rules for a moment.

    First: Your claim that the MDX is quicker than the X5 is based on a two-year-old comparison between a 300 HP MDX and a heavier X5 with the base 260 HP engine. Even then, the lighter MDX with 40 more horsepower only beat the heavier X5 by .2 seconds 0 to 60. That's pretty pathetic. And BMW doesn't sell that engine in the X5 any longer.

    So let's use your rules to directly compare apples to apples: 2011 MDX to 2011 X5 3.5i. Both have 300 horsepower 6 cylinder gasoline engines. Both just completed their mid-model refresh and received a new transmission and revised engines.The MDX weighs 4,550 pounds. The X5 weighs 4,960 pounds.Both vehicles are the newest, best, most competitive that these two manufacturers can produce in this particular configuration. Published numbers for 0 to 60 are:

    MDX: 7 seconds
    X5: 6.4 seconds (for the record, BMW's published numbers are conservative averages that are usually overstated. So tests are likely to show performance closer to 6.1 seconds.)

    Second: You say that the MDX gets better mpg than the X5 and you quote fueleconomy.gov
    MDX 16 (city) 21 (Hwy) AND
    X5 15 (city) 21 (Hwy)

    Again your numbers are out of date. Comparing apples to apples, fueleconomy.gov says:

    MDX: 17 city/22 highway, 19 combined
    BMW: 17 city/25 highway, 20 combined

    So here we see that the X5 has leaped ahead of the MDX's old design and engine architecture. While the MDX previously may have been competitive as a "budget/value" option, it hasn't kept up with the competition. The X5 is faster and gets better mpg than the MDX even though it's still 400 lbs heavier. The early reports also show the X5 to be quieter and smoother, while the MDX's engine is described as "truck like".

    This was achieved through direct injection engines, use of advanced turbos, 8 speed transmissions, and advanced engine management systems that you dismiss because you prefer Honda's SOHC 24valve VTEC technology that first debuted around 1995. Tell the truth, are you somebody's grandpa who thinks that things are better just because they're old and that's how things were done decades ago?

    Third: you say that "performance SUV is an oxymoron term". Over a million BMW, Porsche, and Infiniti buyers will disagree with you. An SUV that will hit 60 mph in 4.7 seconds or less is by definition a performance SUV. You can live in denial, but numbers are numbers and the success of that market segment is proof that performance SUVs do exist. I think your point is that you don't care about performance when you're shuttling the kids from point A to B. Even if you don't value performance, you can't rationally pretend that performance SUVs are an invalid class of vehicles.

    Fourth: you say that the RX was the first luxury CUV/SUV. Range Rover was the first luxury SUV. The X5 and the RX both debuted in 2000, so you can't claim that the X5 followed/copied the RX. The car-based utility vehicle (CUV) RX is not a performance vehicle and not in the same class as the X5. The X5 is not a CUV (not built on a 5 series car platform). It uses a purpose-built platform that isn't shared by any BMW cars and it is segmented into a different market segment from the RX. So the comparison between the X5 and the RX is not valid.

    So here's the point: My previous post was about choices that a true luxury manufacturer offers its buyers. Of course the MDX doesn't compare to those X5s because Honda's Acura isn't a true luxury brand. Their business model is entry-level luxury, one-size fits all vehicles that are mass produced from the parts bin using decade-old engine and transmission technology in order to reduce manufacturing costs so that they can sell at a price point that appeals to budget conscious buyers. The Acura customer demographic is for Entry Level Luxury. That means their customers got a pay raise and now can afford to pay an extra $8k to trade the Honda for something with a few more options, nicer leather, and a little more prestige. Honda created the Acura brand to ensure that their customers have something to trade up to as they age. And to ensure that Honda owners wouldn't be forced to look at other brands once they moved a rung higher into middle class.

    As said in a previous post, you're not a BMW customer and you're not their target demographic. The traits that make BMW a true luxury vehicle would be lost on someone who is looking for a comfortable multi-purpose vehicle to haul around some kids for a "value" price. With all the mentions of "price" and "value" in your posts, why not just admit the truth: you didn't want to pay the premium for a BMW so you bought second best.
  • abmwfan
    This probably is my last reply to your post:

    First: Calm down its just a discussion. You might want to learn "how to respond" and keep the post civilized and not attack people. Else when you really need information people probably will not respond.

    I never said that MDX is faster than X5. You probably misread it and it happens when we are more focussed on responding instead of trying to understand the discussion. I too am guilty of it...when I had just started posting in internet sites. We all learn in due time.

    RX was first that defined this segment. Range Rovers and LX etc. were body on frame. Even first mid size luxury SUV ML was body on fame. Unit body midsize SUV was first introduced by Lexus as RX 300.

    For a min forget about marketing hype and think about it
    Can a 4-ton high center of gravity vehicle be a drivers vehicle? I rest my case.

    FWIW: The cost was not a issue
    I paid cash for MDX
    I paid cash for Audi S6
    I paid cash for Infiniti I30
    and all my previous cars(G20, Mazda 323, Nissan Sentra, VW Jetta)

    However for a comfortable people mover like X5, MDX, RX, ML or any other SUV I will talk about value same way when I talk about hiring or giving raises to my high-value employees who then go and mortgage/lease their future to get a blue propeller and THINK they bought the best.

    I think I am digressing and should stop.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited September 2010
    Sanjaya, nothing in this discussion was uncivilized. I think you're just threatened by someone who points out your incorrect facts, your lack of understanding of BMW and vehicle market segmentation. You spouted out-of-date numbers and bad data. You were wrong. Get over it.

    BTW, body on frame construction is irrelevant to whether the Range Rover is a luxury SUV.

    And BTW, your statement/question "Can a 4-ton high center of gravity vehicle be a drivers vehicle? I rest my case." is ludicrous. None of these SUVs weighs 4 tons (8,000 pounds). What are you talking about? I don't think you know either..

    This isn't "marketing hype". The entire point of this discussion was to go beyond marketing hype get to the facts and numbers.

    And the point of this discourse really is not to respond to you. It's to correct your distortions and bad data before they are picked up by other readers and become part of popular internet lore.

    So here is a direct question for you. How many of the vehicles on your list have you ever taken to a track or run through a skid pad, slalom, etc? I have a LOT of experience with BMW in those areas, including SUVs. I'm speaking from experience because I have first hand knowledge how performance SUVs handle in those conditions. What's your experience with a vehicle aside from the highway?
  • anon3anon3 Posts: 147
    edited September 2010
    However for a comfortable people mover like X5, MDX, RX, ML or any other SUV I will talk about value same way when I talk about hiring or giving raises to my high-value employees who then go and mortgage/lease their future to get a blue propeller and THINK they bought the best.

    Look at your list, sanjaysdca, you've never even owned a BMW. So how can you have a valid opinion about what's the "best"? I've owned Acura, and Audi, and BMW, and a number of other vehicles so I have direct personal experience with both makes. Acura is the reason that I switched to German cars.

    This discussion attempted to focus on verifiable facts and I'm glad that someone took the time to correct the bad data that you were perpetuating.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    The topic is Acura MDX vs BMW X5. Let's not make it Member A vs Member B vs Member C. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
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