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Hyundai Azera Front End Problems

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Comments

  • raw6464raw6464 Posts: 6
    "$2000 or more" for replacement shocks only, not struts? No way. Maybe $200 each.

    1. No way? If it was a simple matter of 2 shocks it would have been done by Hyundai. The ONLY current struts/shocks replacement is $1200 WITHOUT the labor. This $200 point of view suggests that it only takes a set of $200 shocks, but is also says tacitly, Hyundai deliberately and on purpose chose not to fix the wallowing with the TSB shock change... just because? Hyundai may be a lot of things but I don't think their stupid.

    2. NO $200 SHOCK "FIX" WILL "FIX" THE WALLOWING OF THIS SUSPENSION BECAUSE IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO THAT. Without destroying the whole cornering characteristic of the car... for the worse.

    3. The suspension has 4 corners. Just changing the front shocks without the back will introduce either a lot of understeer or a lot of oversteer... depending. This will CERTAINLY change the whole cornering characteristics. Firmer front struts/shocks without changing the rears will cause this car to oversteer... something engineers do not like to put into cars for the general public. How much oversteer? Again, depends. Premature oversteering at points that are not mapped into the ESC system is not a good thing. Of course you could put 40lbs of air in the rear and 10 in the front to compensate! As all racers know spring and shock rates are part of the formula for plotting over and understeer.

    4. Aftermarketeers need to deal with how changing the front shocks will affect the Electronic Stability Control which was DESIGNED (there's that word ) again, for the factory system. Yes the ESC IS part of the suspension and an integral part of its handling characteristics.

    5. Then there's the liability factor for any aftermarket manufacturer designing a suspension that does not modify the ESC to compensate for the changes. The days of just changing shocks on cars with ESC is gone. It's gone the same way as changing ignition timing, idle control and such. But lets be clear here. I'm not talking of a minor "tweaking" of a suspension. I'm talking here of the changes that would be needed due to the design of the suspension that was designed to wallow AKA a soft ride. Of course disabling the ESC altogether is always an option.

    The ESC is mapped into a computer that we can not change. A lot of engineering and R&D would be needed on a car by car basis for any aftermarket to put out a system that really works... and that all takes money... and accept their liability for some screw ball who crashed because his ESC didn't work!

    6. Hyundai and all car manufaturers for that matter will void their warranty if you make any major part replacments and do not use their "genuine" parts. And why would you not use their parts for FREE. It's also only a matter of time before car makers will take some sort of stand on any damaging liability concerning the functionality of their ESC with aftermarket parts. Probably when the first screw ball sues them.

    =========================================================
    As far as there not being a market for replacement shocks, I disagree.
    How many Azeras have been sold here on the North American continent? More than 40,000?
    Many of the people driving Azeras that are not happy with their rides are
    not here to complain and do not even know about these type forums.


    Yes I agree there are a lot of cars and I do understand the fact that either side of this argument is just speculation on our parts?

    Let me be clear on what I wrote:
    There is no real market considering the number of Azeras out there with buyers who would spend around $2000 or more on cars that are still under warranty for a problem that is buyer specific.

    So the question is just REALLY how many buyers WILL ACTUALLY spend $2000 to change the suspension and void their 5 year warranty! How many people would put that kind of money into an Azera and essentially wipe out their bang for the buck reason for purchasing the car in the first place. Or how many people will spend $2000 on their 6 year out of warranty Azera.... that is if the Azera is still worth $2000? LOL. Is there enough people with these demograpsh to make it profitable to engineer, manufacture and market the "fix", the key word profitable?
    I say no and could be all wrong. But I WON'T be one who goes the aftermarket route, I'd sell or trade the car in for want that doesn't wallow.

    IMHO the Azera buyers got the "best" fix considering cost/benefit with the TSB shock change.

    P.S. In case some people may think so... no I don't work for Hyundai nor trying to defend Hyundai in any way on the suspension issue. Just trying to call 'em like I see 'em.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Posts: 495
    The "best fix" is for Hyundai to admit its a problem and come up with a solution. If they can do it on all their other models, why can't they do it for the Azera? Why didn't they do it in the first place?
    Also, the fix per the TSB with new shocks does not last.
  • raw6464raw6464 Posts: 6
    Bob, I wish it was that simple. Admitting they "have a problem" on a problem they can not fix is the answer to your question and why they won't, don't and can't.

    I guess I have not conveyed my interpretation well enough of the Azera’s rather unusual suspension design, so I will capitalize and bold for effect: THE SUSPENSION WAS ENGINEEERD AND DESIGNED TO GIVE A SOFT WALLOWING RIDE. THERE IS NO EASY FIX WITHOUT THE REVAMPING OF THE ENTIRE SUSPENSION $$$$$$$$$$$. Any attempt short of replacing the entire system would be like putting lipstick on a pig.

    I've tried to approach this from an engineering perspective focusing on the hinged strut connected to the lower control arm thru bushings. A logical approach to facilitate a soft wallowing ride, the objective the engineers were looking for.

    A defensive argument is not needed to understand the bushings alone offer lateral, axial and vertical flexing of the strut to body "rigidity". This is consistent with the complaints being posted. This type of design is not the way almost all other companies do it. Why they went this route would be just speculation and anybodies guess... could be a cheaper way to go.

    I can’t comment on the quality of the TSB struts. Accepting the TSB “fix” strut worked but “do not last” certainly implies poor quality. If that is so and Hyundai will not fix it, then for sure we all will have a problem. If so I've bought my last Hyundai. If that is your case and there is definitly something wrong with the TSB shocks, like failing a bounce test, leaking shocks or sagging springs then you are in your right to expected Hyundai to do the right thing.

    Having said it's been my experience with car manufacturers shocks go under "normal wear and tear" and they won't replace them with any "normal" milage accumulated. Toyota got me on that one on $600 apiece tunable Supra. I would expect Hyundai to be the same.

    Without any inference of approval on my part, Hyundai would not be the first to leave customers high and dry. BMW, Mercedes and Honda are experts at it and are on my “never buy again” list... compainies that made twice as much per car than Hyundai made on my Azera. I’ve “flipped the bird” to better companies than Hyundai.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Folks, it's fine to have different opinions about what's going on with this issue, but please keep your comments about the issue itself instead of each other. Personal attacks are not acceptable.

    Thanks.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Posts: 495
    The regional service manager called with the following information. He contacted corporate HQ and the technical departments to get the information.
    There is no essential difference between the 040, 041 and 640 shocks. The numbers relate to the year of manufacture and not a change in the design of the shocks. The 040's were used in the TSB to eliminate the "noise" caused by the 041. The ride/wallowing/bouncing, etc. would not be affected.
    All three shocks are gas-filled, so there is no change in '08. Also, there is no significant change in the suspensions between '06, '07 and '08.
    The 040 and 640 are "identical."
    The 2008 and 2009 will have the same suspension characteristics as the 2006 and 2007.
    Bottom line: "The car is operating the way designed." :(
    All in all, it is still a great car, but IMO, it should ride better for the class and price.
  • revjrevj Posts: 5
    I have just purchased a 2008 Azera. I love the car except it has the front end shudder/shimmy. It appears around 40 mph and 70 mph. I have had the tires rebalanced. I have increased tire pressure. The shudder/shimmy is subtle, but it is definitely there.

    From what I have read, I am in for several visits with service managers saying it is my imagination and that the car is fine. If anyone has advice to help me avoid regular visits to the dealership (without any resolution) I would greatly appreciate it.
  • snaglepussnaglepus Posts: 160
    The regional service manager called with the following information.
    He contacted corporate HQ and the technical departments to get the information.
    There is no essential difference between the 040, 041 and 640 shocks. The numbers relate to the year of manufacture and not a change in the design of the shocks. [Say What?] The 040's were used in the TSB
    to eliminate the "noise" caused by the 041's. The ride/wallowing/bouncing, etc. would not be affected.
    All three shocks are gas-filled, so there is no change in '08. Also, there is no significant
    change in the suspensions between '06, '07 and '08. The 040 and 640 are "identical."
    The 2008 and 2009 will have the same suspension characteristics as the 2006 and 2007.
    Bottom line: "The car is operating the way designed."


    :)

    One wonders if this "corporate HQ and the technical department" person has
    viewed the fine picture that is posted over on the better forum showing
    the differences in appearance between the two shocks? :surprise:

    Has anyone any idea who these persons are? :confuse:

    Maybe we could ask them why Hyundai went to all that trouble to change not only
    the front shocks on 10/20/07, but also at that same time, the rear shocks too.

    Oh well, it seems many corporate types mostly speak with forked tongue. :sick:

    :D
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Posts: 495
    I sent a letter to the CEO in CA regarding the latest experiences and specifically asked about getting the 640 shocks. No answer yet, but it takes them about a month to respond and of course, they have to contact the local and regional service managers and whoever they talked to first.
    Still hopeful something permanent can be done.
  • snaglepussnaglepus Posts: 160
    :)

    If you are successful and I really hope that you are, we will be calling you Mr. Bob. :blush:
    I live within easy commuting distance of that place, and if you are
    successful, I'll drive over there myself and bug 'em for sure.

    As a side note, I have removed one of my rear shocks.
    I had sent away for some Bilsteins that were supposed to fit, but they did not. :cry:

    I left the stock right-rear shock off hoping I might find some other sustitute that will fit, and I tried bouncing that rear side that has no shock, and it acts the same as my front end does with the 040s.
    That's how bad my front end has become with those TSB replacements that now
    have only 6,500 miles. :lemon: They are just plain worn out, and I doubt that
    my front end would feel all that different if they were not there at all. :(

    So we all wish you "good luck." ;)

    I don't really care how long they take to respond just so long as they do respond positively.

    :D
  • bigearl1bigearl1 Posts: 6
    Thought I would let you folks know what has happened lately. I have a 2008 Azera produced before the changeover to the 640 strut, so it has the TSB (040) strut. I have had the the hollow knocking sound from the get-go and it has been back 4 times in an attempt to fix it. The car has 1650 miles on it. On my first visit, they tightened all front end fasteners and lowered the air pressure in the tires but no improvement. Next, the dealer replaced both 040 struts with new 040 struts with no improvement. They then replaced the top and bottom strut mounts and the knocking sound became worse. They then replaced the passenger-side-only strut with another 040 and it remained in its' worse knocking condition but now I have a very loud low speed squeek in addition. The dealer has been great at trying to fix this problem but all that happens is that things get worse, not better. One thing is obvious to me... the 040 strut is not, in-and-of-itself, the problem. I am scheduled to return the car for attempt #5 to fix it this week and I'll keep you posted on what happens
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Posts: 495
    Will keep you updated, but if you have the time, why not drive over there and see the CEO? I would if I could. It would probably take a while to get to see him, but sitting in his office will certainly pressure him somewhat.
    Also, if Hyundai is serious about becoming a major player, they need to take care of those of us who trusted them.
    I still believe it can be fixed, but it may cost them some money to do it. So be it, theie error, their cost.
    In the 70's, a friend of mine had a Baracuda with the crappy purple paint job. They all flaked off after 3 years or so. No help from Chrysler since it was out of warranty. He wrote Ralph Nader and copied Chrysler. Chrysler went 50/50 on a new paint job.
  • oskidunker1oskidunker1 Posts: 213
    I had the front shocks replaced at about 5,000 miles. The car rode much better over over passes when cars tend to bounce. Now at 13,000 the ride is bad again. I can't believe shocks only last 8,000 miles. This only happend 5% of the time on a particular rode. I could slow down below 60 and minimze this. seem to rememeber my first Audi A6 (1998) did this also.Later Audi's had tighter suspension, a little too tight for me.Maybe I'll mention to the dealer or just deal with it. rides nice on freeways and around town.
  • snaglepussnaglepus Posts: 160
    :)

    I am surprised it took you 8K miles with those replacement
    shocks until you noticed how bad they had become. :surprise:
    I noticed mine before ours had 5K on the originals and 5K on the TSB replacements.

    The jury is still out on whether or not the latest front shocks, the 54611-3L640,
    are lasting longer than 5K miles before they go that same route.

    It seems that MANDO cannot produce a dependable shock.
    Less than five thousand miles and they are worthless. :lemon:

    It is perhaps a good thing that Hyundai has turned to Sachs for shocks for the Genesis,
    although one reporter wrote that he noticed porpusing in a new V6 Genesis he tested. :surprise:

    :D
  • snaglepussnaglepus Posts: 160
    :)

    No, I have not tried. It is my understanding from others that Hyundai
    will not replace the shocks but one time and one time only!

    Not that replacing the shocks with these same MANDO
    made pieces of junk would do any good don't you know. :lemon:

    What would be the sense in replacing old shocks for
    the second or third time and have them fail yet again? :confuse:

    The factory either must develope a good replacement shock or we will simply
    have to wait until some aftermarket shock producer comes through for us.

    Bilstein . . are you paying attention? ;)

    :D
  • grayfoxgrayfox Posts: 166
    I too have gone thru the shock replacement routine on my '06 Azera and now I'm wondering if anyone has replaced the Hard as a Rock Michelins with a softer tire like a Good Year Comfortred. I know the Michelins deliver good wear characteristics but I think their hardness/stiffness is the source of much of the road noise transmission to the cockpit. The softer tires might reduce the suspension noises, too.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Posts: 495
    Since the poor ride is caused by wallowing/bouncining/rolling, the tires are not the problem. However, if I keep the car long enough to get new tires, I will not get Michellins. Had Bridgestones on my Toyota and Mazda products and they did very well.
    I did write to Owen Koh, CEO of Hyundai Motors America and asked if they would replace my "new" 040's with 640's. Also asked about getting a special discount if I trade my Azera in on a Genesis.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Posts: 495
    Will do - if I get an answer, but I am persistent.
  • snaglepussnaglepus Posts: 160
    "I sent a letter to the CEO in CA regarding the latest experiences and specifically asked about getting the 640 shocks. No answer yet, but it takes them about a month to respond and of course, they have to contact the local and regional service managers and whoever they talked to first.
    Still hopeful something permanent can be done."


    Anything back yet from Hyundai? I realize it has only been a little over
    two weeks since you wrote them, and I am not at all anxious. ;)

    I have come to the 'educated' conclusion that the latest front shocks, part number 54611-3L640,
    may be the answer as I have contacted a very few new Azera owners, and some
    are coming back with the fact that their rides are not showing any front end
    problems even though they have passed the magical 5K miles barrior.

    How do I and the many other extremely interested individuals contact the powers that be at Hyundai?
    Perhaps if we hit this individual up en masse we can get something going here? :confuse:

    Worth a shot isn't it?

    :D
  • zredsoxzredsox Posts: 90
    have come to the 'educated' conclusion that the latest front shocks, part number 54611-3L640,
    may be the answer as I have contacted a very few new Azera owners, and some
    are coming back with the fact that their rides are not showing any front end
    problems even though they have passed the magical 5K miles barrior.

    How do I and the many other extremely interested individuals contact the powers that be at Hyundai?
    Perhaps if we hit this individual up en masse we can get something going here?

    Worth a shot isn't it?


    Hey Snag -

    I'd be willing to join an "en masse" contact of the appropriate Hyundai personnel to get my front end shock problem resolved. I definately think it's worth a shot. My second set of shocks are no better than the original set. Otherwise, I love the car.
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