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Lexus LS 600h/600h L

Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
In order to secure my status as "most popular hostess on the planet," I've created this discussion for the LS600.
Read the book, see the movie (coming soon!)

Can't think of more to say, so I'll hand over the mic now...

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Comments

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    Kirstie, I think this will become a very popular board the next several months. Congratulations!
  • yerth10yerth10 Posts: 428
    All the Rich & Powerful will buy LS 600h to show their wealth, technology and green commitment.

    Those who fear the Hybrid (Arab Sheikhs and Big Oil-Men) will stick with Benz-S600 and BMW-IL760 since these 2 vehicles consume more fuel.
  • image
    high-resolution pictures


    I'm sorry, but I just can't picture such a big car, well long, saving fuel. But I'll give a point to lexus for thinking of combining battery power and regular engine to boost the performance
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    The car is reeally about 450HP at much better gas mileage rates than comparable cars with power like that. It wasn't built to be a gas miser. If you think that then you've really got this car's mission wrong.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    I am sure it will be in the gas guzzler category at the EPA. It is very unlikely that the car will get 20 MPG combined.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    It'll be what it will be. No Lexus is a gas guzzler though and this car won't be either. But it's purpose is supreme luxury, power and prestige, not econobox gas mileage. What is so hard to understand about that.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    It should be in the same class as a MB S500/S600. They are both gas guzzler rated by the EPA.

    Anyone have the size on the LS600h yet? The LS460 is smaller than the LS430. Both are smaller than the competition MB "S" class. It shows in the sales figures.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    "It should be in the same class as a MB S500/S600. They are both gas guzzler rated by the EPA."

    Why??? Please explain your rationale.

    Anyone have the size on the LS600h yet?

    202" for the LS600HL - same as the LS460L. 198" for the LS600H and the LS460 and both nearly 2" bigger than the LS430.

    It shows in the sales figures

    What shows?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    We should change this title to LS600HL or LS600H and LS600HL. The LS600H is not being sold in the US, so it's really a misnomer as it stands.

    BTW - what ever happened to the flags?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Title change done, thanks. The flags were dropped a few months ago. Personally, I miss them.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    What shows?

    The full size Lexus vehicles are off by at least 50% in sales and the "S" class Mercedes is selling 2 to 1 over the LS series.

    Yes the new Lexus is longer. I was talking about passenger room and trunk space. Both are smaller for the new LS over the LS430. And the LS430 was already smaller than the S500 its main competition. Even the 7 series BMW is outselling the LS Lexus.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Sales slow everytime a new model is due out. Many don't want the last year of an old model and production is cut because of that plus the line is retooled for the new model. Watch the LS sales soar now.

    Lexus announced many months ago that it would stop producing the LS430 earlier than planned because demand for the new car was high and they needed to add capacity for it.

    You couldn't pick a worse comparative - first year of a new model vs last year of an expiring model. It's a given and it'll be the same thing on the next go round of both cars.

    For the year as a whole the LS will easily outsell the 7-series as the LS in the last 3 months of 2006 will blow away 7-series sales.

    The prior LS sacrificed styling for interior space. Now they've gone bolder and sacraficed the interior roominess for styling cues. But I drove both LS models. Plenty of space in the SWB model and the LWB is cavernous.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    Plenty of space in the SWB model and the LWB is cavernous.

    The EPA has both the LS460 and LS460 L with the same interior space and the L with a very small trunk. 11 cubic feet is not suitable for any kind of travel. With just 103 cubic feet of interior space it is only one foot bigger than last years Camry. Not what I would consider cavernous. Unless they gave the wrong specifications to the EPA. If the LS460 L beats out the 760 BMW it will not be over trunk space or roomy interior. The BMW has 40% more trunk for luggage and golf clubs. Our LS400 is marginal for trunk space and it is 14 Cubic feet. To each his own.
  • jd14jd14 Posts: 128
    Wow, I just saw this board and realized that ljflx is having to fight a one man battle against a pack of Lexus-hating morons.

    If the EPA says both the 460 and 460 L have the same interior space, then it's an OBVIOUS MISTAKE! The 460 L has about 5 inches of additional rear legroom!

    The trunk space is 18 cubic feet, unless you order rear coolbox or other trunk reducing options. I'm sorry, but I just can't seem to see what you have against this car, and you're fighting a losing battle.

    By the way, the 460 gets 19/27 mpg, which is already better than 20 mpg in combined driving. The 600h L will get better city mileage than highway, so your estimate will be WAY OFF! See for yourself.

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/08/31/lexus-ls600h-444bhp-and-29-7-mpg/

    In the same class as the S for gas consumption... I don't think so. :P
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    I'll tell you what - I sat in the cars and I'll judge by my personal experience. You can rely on stats to govern your opinions. Stats are often wrong and obviously yours are. How on earth can you even think a longer wheel base car has the same interior space as it's SWB brother. Don't know about you but I know an obvious mistake when I read one. As well use the real trunk size. The smaller trunk is with an option that most people will pass on so it's not representative and don't penalize Lexus for offering a cool box that others don't offer.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    I may have to go test drive one. Last time we were at El Cajon Lexus. I swore I would never go to another Lexus dealer. I do think they have built good cars. Not sure about the current ones. I know our 1990 is still solid and runs great.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    This is not the right place to be talking about the LS 460...
  • There's been a lot of speculation about what the LS600HL price.will be. Based on the existing LS brochures and LS460 pricing I think it can be reasonably estimated.

    The LS brochure indicates that the LS600HL will have all the LS460L standard features plus the following with their costs as options on the 460L shown where known or estimated where not known:

    Adaptive variable air suspension $ 2,120
    ML audio system 2,530
    Electronic parking assist 1.200
    LED headlamps (Estimated) 1,000
    19" alloy wheels (Estimated based on Mercedes) 1,200
    Smart access card key (Estimated based on Mercedes) 1,100
    Total $ 9,150
    Base price of LS460L 71,000
    Price before Hybrid pkg and AWD pkg $ 80,150

    Hybrid pkg Based on GS450H and RX400H 6,000

    AWD pkg Based on GS450H and RX400H 2,000

    Total Base price $ 88,150

    Add all other available options except
    Exec seating pkg and Touring pkg (redundant) 8,481

    Total with all options except Exec seating pkg $ 96,631

    It will be interesting to see how close this comes to the real thing. I could be totally off-base. It wouldn't be the first time.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I may have to go test drive one. Last time we were at El Cajon Lexus..

    I am sorry, but I live right here in San Diego, and there is NO dealership called El Cajon Lexus.... There are 3 Lex dealers in town - Carlsbad Lexus, Kearny Mesa Lexus, and Bob Baker Lexus...

    And a 1990 LS versus a 2007 LS is like comparing a 1990 S-class versus a 2007 S550 ! Any difference in your opinion ? Even my 1999 LS is no where as smooth, refined and luxurious as the 430, not to even compare to a 460 ! I will say you are comparing apples to oranges, and simply basing your argument on paper stats... Go ahead and stop by any of these dealerships, and if they have an LS on the lot (doubtful) you may actually get to sit in and check out the dimensions. Maybe then you can update your views on this car...
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    The LS brochure indicates that the LS600HL will have all the LS460L standard features plus the following with their costs as options on the 460L
    .....

    Total Base price $ 88,150

    Add all other available options except
    Exec seating pkg and Touring pkg (redundant) 8,481

    Total with all options except Exec seating pkg $ 96,631

    It will be interesting to see how close this comes to the real thing. I could be totally off-base. It wouldn't be the first time.


    Good analysis !

    But you need to add a few others not found on any 460 series

    5L motor
    LED hi/lo beams (exclusive to the 600 series)
    leather-stitched dash (exclusive to the 600 series)

    and a few other items Lexus is keeping close to its chest which may be exclusive to the 600 series as well...

    My price forecast is $110K loaded...
  • jd14jd14 Posts: 128
    The LS really covers the whole spectrum, all the way from 61K to 100K+.
    Now bring on the L650 or whatever they're calling it. A V12 Hybrid, wow!!!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    It was Lexus of El Cajon before it was Bob Baker Lexus. I should have said Bob Baker. They are the gangsters I refuse to deal with. I am more concerned with longevity than subtle refinement. With all the high priced electronics these days that seem to have about a 5 year life span it does not give me much comfort. Quite frankly I doubt my wife would go for a new one. She did not care for the looks of the last generation LS and this one is even less attractive.
  • jd14jd14 Posts: 128
    LESS ATTRACTIVE???
    ARE YOU JOKING???
    ARE YOU BLIND???
    What is with you? This is a MAJOR styling jump from the last LS, inside and out.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Um, well, fortunately styling is in the eye of the beholder. Shouting not necessary, we hear ya! :)
  • For the year as a whole the LS will easily outsell the 7-series as the LS in the last 3 months of 2006 will blow away 7-series sales.


    It's possible. Also I should point out, LS 430 yearly sales in the past have exceeded even the new S-class sales, currently. I expect the LS 460 to do the same. But as for LS 600h L, I'm still uncertain what they want the car to be in terms of sales.

    I have posted earlier the first 100 LS 600h L with special features, badging, etc.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    Who copied who? Who got it right? I don't really like either one. Sorry just not great looking to me. Don't get me wrong they are not Prius or Aztek ugly by any means.

    image
    image
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    WEll - most find this car a lot better looking and in person it is better looking than in picture. So maybe you needed to add in "to her" at the close of your post 23 for better clarity.

    I find both cas quite attractive with no copying at all.
  • jd14jd14 Posts: 128
    I guess I overreachted earlier, but we just have extremely different viewpoints gagrice. Also, that is a picture of the LS, not real, and a photo of the CLS. Not a fair comparison, although I do agree the CLS looks like the better of the two here. I could get a photo of the LS and a picture of the CLS and which looks better would flip. The LS, as well as all the new L-Finesse designs, looks breathtaking in person(my opinion, yours may differ).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    I find both cars quite attractive

    In all honesty I do to. I find myself in a strange place. Somewhere between Bio-Willie and the Prius crowd. I have worked hard all my life and am retired. I can afford to drive anything I want. I cannot find anything I want. I would feel guilty with a car like the LS600h. It will in all likelihood get less mileage than the GS450h. GS450h owners are reporting 22 MPG average. If you can drive the LS600h and get the MPG from the article why bother having all that power. If I am driving a Porsche I am not into pulse and glide. I am into back roads with lots of curves and 80-120 MPH acceleration. I don't need to feel green. I have 3 farms with lots of trees. So I am producing more than my share of oxygen. So I guess I will leave all the LS600h cars for you guys that want a car that will go 0-60 in two seconds. I just cannot see how it has any socially redeeming value. Which was my original premise. Is the LS600h a gas saver or a gas guzzler?
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I don't get it. What's the point of putting a picture of a lexus LS460 and a MB CLS together? And then saying "who copied who?". Duh. neither car look like each other. Oh wait yes they do look like one another, they both have 4 wheels and tires and all are round!
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