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2009 Mazda6

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Comments

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Mazda6 2009 is bigger on the outside than Atenza, it is bigger on the inside than Atenza.

    That's funny, so was the first-gen, which I already pointed out, repeatedly.

    THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

    Once again, neither was the first-gen Atenza and 6. I'm not saying they were, I was saying that they were NOT dropping 2x the $$$ and research that you so blatantly assumed. Or, the "Ford Focus approach", as you so called it.

    And thanks to Aviboy97 for this information:
    mz6greyghost is correct. While Mazda did spend a little more money to modify the JDM/euro Mazda6, the under pinnings, suspension, interior design and basic overall design is the same. Only the front and rear facias are different.

    Doesn't sound like a "Ford Focus approach" to me. And since his info has been relatively accurate since day one, I'll take his word for it, along with Mazda's, and the DOZENS of other automotive news journals and websites that have said the same thing.

    And for the record, Saturn Astra is virtually the same car in Europe and US, the platform is not modified.

    Oh really? The Aura is also "virtually the same" to their Opel counterparts? So they didn't make modifications for the different safety, emissions, and lighting laws that the US imposes? Right...
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    rebates generally were 1000-2000 more dollars than the sedan.

    I never noticed any better rebate on the 5 door than the sedan. Had there been, I might have considered it more. At the time I bought, I thought the 5 door would have cost me an extra $1000 based on invoice price, though I never really negotiated on one. I did not want the wing or the black plastic filler piece or the lower roofline in the back seat.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Oh really? The Aura is also "virtually the same" to their Opel counterparts? So they didn't make modifications for the different safety, emissions, and lighting laws that the US imposes? Right

    First. Aura is not Astra.

    Second, are you implying that only the front and rear facias are different between the Atenza and Mazda6?

    Third, federalization and "unique design for North America" are two different things, and my contention is that there are far greater differences between an Atenza and Mazda6 than the example of Saturn that you used. Astra has minimal changes between the Opel version.

    What are the specs. for the new 6? Does it have the same interior volume as the Atenza, does it have the same wheelbase? How similar is the curb weight?

    If I'm incorrect I'll admit it, I believe the modifications are greater than changes to meet lighting, bumper, and other relevant changes to meet US regulations.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    federalization and "unique design for North America" are two different things, and my contention is that there are far greater differences between an Atenza and Mazda6 than the example of Saturn that you used. Astra has minimal changes between the Opel version.

    Well, the USDM and JDM/euro Mazda6 share the same platform, which most likley means they will share the same underpinnings. Also, the 2.5L engines are the same. The interior and exterior design are identical, with the exception of the front and rear facias. Will the USDM Mazda6 weigh more? Probably. How much? I would guess not too much, with the exception of the V6.

    I believe that the "unique for North America" is intended for marketing, and is meant to trigger interest in the car to people who passed on the Mazda6 and bought something else due to the Mazda6's small size. Does this mean the Mazda6 got huge? I don't think so. I still think it will be smaller then the Altima / Accord and Camry, however, still big enough for families

    Ultimately until we see official specs, all we can do is speculate.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Hey everyone,

    I've done some talking with some dealer friends of mine who attended the dealer meetings and saw the Mazda6 first hand. Here are some tid bits from them.

    First, everyone was in agreement that this car is much much better looking in person. The pictures do the car no justice. The interior is leaps and bounds over the current Mazda6. Mazda really did pay attention to build quality. As for dimensions, they were not disclosed, however, interior room substantially more then the current gen, however, the overall size of the car is not that much bigger. It is smaller, overall, then the Camry and Accord (Thank God!). Also, the interior space was very well utilized, creating lots of passenger room. Apparently the trunk is really big too.

    As for the V6 engine, I was told by that is was announced that it will be the most powerful V6 in it's class, while maintaining great fuel efficiency.

    Take this all as you wish. I think it is all good news. I am not opposed to a larger Mazda6 at all, as long as it drives like a Mazda. It appears we did not get a Camry or Accord with the winged "M" on the grill.
  • socal2006socal2006 Posts: 44
    I don't think anyone questions that there is little demand currently for a hatchback midsize car.

    Rather, the question is whether there will be more demand for hatchback and wagons going forward. I think the answer to this is yes, there will be as people move away from SUVs.

    Look, there wasn't much demand for B class subcompacts before a myriad of car companies started to sell them. There wasnt demand for the first gen prius or other early hybrids before the 2nd gen prius arrived and took off. Sometimes a good vehicle, marketed correctly creates demand. Heck, there wasn't much demand for nor was there an existence of sporty midsize sedans, upscale sporty compact sedans/wagons, small mini-vans, two seated roadsters, rotary powered sports cars... almost every damn vehicle in the Mazda lineup when they were first introduced. And yet? Mazda has done pretty well making vehicles outside the norms of demand. Heck, this almost defines what Mazda is more than zoom zoom.

    Now's not the time to regress.. the market is clearly changing and Mazda should be putting out the best of what they have including the 2 and hatchback/wagons. Sure, they've had great success following the trend with the CX vehicles, but I think they can be leaders as well especially with how nice the 6 wagon looks.

    On a final note, what do people have against the hatchback anyways? It looks almost exactly like the sedan but with more utility. Is it a bottomline price thing? Honestly, why even build the sedan? If Mazda only offered the "sedan with hatchback" and called it a sedan, would it really hurt sales?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    That post was dead on.

    In my dealership, we have spoken many times about Mazda just offering the 5-door, and no sedan. People would buy it. Just market it as a sedan with a lift gate.

    BTW, we are going to get the Mazda2, most likely when the new Mazda3 debuts, because it will grow in size, and there will be the need to fill the small car void left by the current Mazda3. Plus, MNAO is well aware of the increasing fuel prices over here.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    socal, you nailed it. ok there are some who will say that the hatch will be louder and will have less head room for the rear seat, but I don't think this has to be so. really, I'm very pleased with the unique combination of utility, comfort, styling and driving enjoyment my current 6 hatchback has compared to other cars in this class. and to a certain extent, I blame mazda for not really touting the unique advantages of the hatch in their marketing. previous ad campaigns for the 6 had too much emphasis on slogans (zoom zoom) and not enough about content.

    perhaps if the market shifts toward a greater acceptance of hatches, mazda will be in a position to easily bring over the other body styles since they have the done most of the engineering for the hatch/wagon which is available in other markets. I still have hope that Mazda will reconsider.
  • qddaveqddave Posts: 164
    I finally caught up to all the new posts in this thread yesterday and was thinking about them while sitting in traffic on the way home from work. Everybody makes a good point here. At first I thought, "You can't blame Mazda for making the cost based decision to not offer the hatch and wagon, they just won't sell the quantity" but that got me thinking. Back when the 1st gen 6 came out, I remember talking to both dealers here in Grand Rapids, and they both said that because Mazda was marketing the V6 5-spd, those were selling the best and were the hardest to get from the plant because Mazda underestimated demand. Even though, they were "to blame" for the demand. So perhaps they are missing the boat. But then you look at their lineup and see all the people movers with utility out back (3 5-dr, 5, 7, 9). Its blatant avoidance of cannibalism. It sucks, but at the end of the day, its Mazda. You can't hate them for this. All those great driving machines they've been putting out the last few years. SUV of the year for the CX-9. The ball busting MS3! There's too much hate on this thread. I say be patient, wait for the car to hit the dealers and then make a decision. I bet the tone in here will change come fall.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I think the people a hatch appeals to tend to be younger and single, for whatever reason, these people seem to prefer the Mazda3. Older married people with kids tend to have multiple vehicles, one or more of which is already a truck, van, or suv. In my case, in addition to the factors I already gave and some of which you repeat, that was probably the deciding factor...we have an old minivan that I expect to keep indefinitely and I do very little hauling anyway. In the last year I used the van once, to get a Christmas tree.

    Now if the hatch were the same price, not noisier, had as much rear seat head room as the sedan, did not have a wing, and did not have a cheap black plastic filler piece for the side windows, I'd probably have chosen that over the sedan for the sake of the extra utility.

    However,I don't think most Americans would choose a hatch, in any case. This is because they seem to think that even a vehicle as small as the Honda CR-V has more utility than a vehicle like the Mazda6 5-door (or even the Mazda6 wagon). For this reason the Mazda CX-7 has essentially replaced the Mazda6 wagon. This is why there also is not a Fusion wagon, instead there is the Edge.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    You know, something else I thought of, while some complain regarding the V6...I'd have liked Mazda to dropped the V6 and instead offer more of the same engine choices the rest of the world gets. The rest of the world is not offered a V6 at all, instead they get a 1.8L and 2.0 L 4 cylinder that appear to get about 20% better mpg than the 2.5. They also offer a diesel in the rest of the world.

    I understand why Mazda does not offer these choices in the US, just like I understand why they would not bother with a manual for the V6 in the US. While I may think Americans are foolish for wanting a 260 HP V6 in a 3000 pound FWD sedan, Mazda is merely producing what the evidence shows Americans are willing to pay for.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Mazda is merely producing what the evidence shows Americans are willing to pay for.

    This is a message to Mazda:

    "If you build it, they will come..."
  • exit123exit123 Posts: 136
    What other car offers the same combination of utility, comfort, styling and driving enjoyment as the current Mazda6 hatchback?

    What other cars even come close, in the same price range?

    Maybe this is a good topic for it's own thread.
  • Well, I guess in protest you can go buy a ...... instead. Oh that's right. No one else makes a mainstream mid-size hatchback.

    I sell Mazdas in Canada and folks here have much more European driving tastes. The hatch and wagon sold decently here, but not in the US. Don't blame Mazda, blame the American consumer obsessed with giant vehicles with 9000 HP.
  • docrwdocrw Posts: 94
    Don't cast all of us Americans in the same light, my car only has 8500HP!

    Seriously, the hatchback has nothing to do with power. The fact is that hatchbacks were popular in the '80s but were generally found only on less expensive models that, quite frankly were not so good looking. Thus, the general impression is that they are noisy, unrefined and ugly, or quirky in the case of Saab. That's why the Mazda 3 hatchback sold well, because buyers in that price range do not expect a super quiet ride and are more interested in utility/bang for the buck. Once you move into the higher priced Mazda6 buyers expectations go up.

    The other problem is that Mazda was never a large enough maker, volume wise, to change the perception in a big way. If they would market a Mazda 6 5-door as aggressively as they are marketing the CX-7 and 9 then it might sell a lot better. Also, despite the real-world benefits of FWD, it seems like AWD is a big marketing factor now. Perhaps a hatchback or wagon with AWD could be marketed better as an SUV replacement. But as someone else pointed out that might eat into CX-7 sales even though the 6 is significantly longer than the CX-7.

    With us Americans its not so much what we like but what we're told we should like. If you market something well, we'll buy it. If you make something great but don't market it, we'll ignore it. Its stupid, but simple, hence the KISS acronym.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    ...even though the 6 is significantly longer than the CX-7.

    CX-7 is 184 inches long the Mazda6 is 187 inches (wagon was 188). I think it is pretty clear that this is the designated replacement of the Mazda6 wagon and 5-door.

    As a company that is in business to make money it would not make a lot of sense to spend all kinds of advertising money in an attempt to convince Americans to buy a hatch or conventional wagon, when they can, instead, simply say "hey look at our cross-over".
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Case and point....Mazda5. Not marketed, sales are slow. Now, they market it a bit, and sales are great.
  • docrwdocrw Posts: 94
    I was referring to the new 6, which is supposed to be a few (2-3) inches longer than the current model, making it 189/190 inches. In the car world 6 inches is a whole new segment.

    As far as convincing Americans to buy a hatchback or wagon it would not be that hard. The line between a "tall wagon" and a "low cross-over" is sufficiently blurry that it would be a matter of semantics to market a Mazda 6 wagon or hatchback with AWD and an extra inch of ground clearance as a crossover. That way everyone is happy, we get a hatchback and everyone else gets a crossover-they just happen to be the same car.

    Look at the new BMW X6, its essentially a tall hatchback that BMW is calling a sport activity coupe. Compared to a real SUV it has very little utility and is more expensive, but people will buy it because BMW is already pushing it.

    Like I said, we'll buy anything you tell us to. How else do you explain thigh masters and magic bullets?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I was referring to the new 6, which is supposed to be a few (2-3) inches longer than the current model, making it 189/190 inches. In the car world 6 inches is a whole new segment.

    I see, fair enough...maybe there is room for a CX-8, then. But you do recognize that most percieve a tall vehicle to be larger...try telling people that a CR-V is really just a tall civic wagon. Try telling them that the Ford Escape is about the size of a Focus wagon and that in fact the Focus wagon has greater cargo capacity than the Escape.

    Look at the new BMW X6, its essentially a tall hatchback...

    Okay and why do you suppose they made it tall?
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    I just bought the Mazda6 for two reasons:

    1) with manufacturer incentives, I could buy the Grand Touring s with everything except nav for a little over $23k. A Camcord would cost thousands more for the same level of features

    2) HB offerred a level of versatility that no other car offers

    I don't know what people are talking about the HB being noisy, it's not. My biggest disappointment is that the car is not more powerful. The handling of this car and the 18" tires beg for more power. Putting the turbo charged 4 cylinder engine in the MS3 or MS6 would have done wonders for this car
  • docrwdocrw Posts: 94
    As far as what people perceive, that is exactly my point.

    The tall wagon (low crossover) is becoming popular because people like the higher seating position, both for visibility and ease of entry/exit. I understand that the whole point of buying the 6 is for the sporty nature of it and raising its center of gravity takes something away from that. However, I believe that even if you just make it appear taller, ie by raising the beltline, and give it AWD people would have a different impression and would be more inclined to buy it.

    True, the hatchback purists may scoff and chafe a bit, but if Mazda could pull off the appearance aspect without hurting performance who really suffers? After all, not buying a hatchback because it looks a little like a crossover would be just as bad as not buying a hatchback because it doesn't look like a crossover.
  • harddrivetharddrivet Posts: 90
    OK I can agree with that. Manual is where it's at. I personally will not buy a car unless it has manual transmission. Do you know in Europe only handicap people drive automatics?
  • milkman1milkman1 Posts: 80
    There is a good post about the Audi A3 on the 6 hatchback board talking about how the 2.0T performance is about on par with the 6S. My thinking is the Lancer ralliart hatchback coming here next year might fit the bill very nicely. AWD, 230 HP turbo 4 with clutch-less manual with automatic mode. So by my count, it's everything us cheap, utilitarian performance nuts are looking for. Or what some people call, the cool kids.
  • exit123exit123 Posts: 136
    That's right, some of us are looking for sporty, utilitarian, and affordable cars. Imagine that!!! :shades:

    And it's not just the younger crowd looking for that either. I'm 56 years old.

    Of course I also have a 4 month old baby so I guess I don't fit any standard buyer profiles. ;)
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    All this doom and gloom about a lack of wagon or HB version is unwarranted. If GM can come up with a CTS wagon Mazda will see the light and re-offer the wagon/HD too.
    The reason makers don't want to offer wagons is simple - money. They can charge (and profit) more selling crossovers than a wagon. I still can't believe Caddy has come up with a CTS wagon - it'll be like getting an SRX for 10K off and better mileage. A 6 wagon would be the same for Mazda - they'd rather sell a CX-9 for 30K than a 6 wagon for 25K.
  • exit123exit123 Posts: 136
    Apparently the new Lancer Ralliart will be 5-door in Europe and 4-door in the US. :cry:
  • milkman1milkman1 Posts: 80
    What's your source on the ralliart hatch not coming here?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    But will the 5-door still come to the US, just not in the Ralliart version?
  • groovypippingroovypippin Posts: 264
    Don;t particularly care to read about the availability or non-availability of the Lancer 5-door in the 2009 Mazda6 forum.
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