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2009 Mazda6

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  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    thanks for the reply.... so I take it you didn't go to the reveal in Denver? Did anyone else from your dealership go?

    Well, I am disappointed that Mazda decided to not put a manual in the v6. I understand why they did it, but I know I prefer it compared to current manumatics where downshifting is way too slow. Given the current market for the 6 is probably way lower than what Mazda initially thought it would be, I can understand why they are moving slowly into this market with more "sure things" while hopefully retaining what separates Mazda from the rest of the brands. I'm sure if the new model does well and gets good press, they may consider other options, hopefully the hatch and wagon get another look.

    But given what they've announced, there's no reason for me to change... my car's paid off, I like how it drives and love the flexibility of the 5-door, and find the size just fine. Of course I'd love to swap engines with the 3.7 but with a manual, my 3.0 does just fine. I'd love to see mazda succeed... an enthusiast's brand without snobbish attitudes or pricing is a recipe that deserves to win.
  • "Now a days, V6 powered mid sized sedans are over 25K Usually the buyer of this price of car is not looking for a manual. They are usually a family person."

    Why can't a "family vehicle" have a manual transmission? I just don't get it. Is a manual any less capable of carrying the whole family than an automatic? In fact, I would want a manual as a family vehicle because it forces the driver to concentrate more on driving.......

    Look, I understand all the economics behind the V6-no-manual decision. But Mazda is a brand that has promised to satisfy enthusiasts. Why not provide the one thing that makes driving most satisfying for the enthusiast: the manual transmission? If, for economics reason, they won't sell V6-with-manuals to dealers, why won't they at least make them available for customers willing to order and wait for one? That way, everyone wins! I would definitely be willing to wait a few weeks for my manual Mazda 6 V6!
  • "The Mazda press release on mazdausa.com clearly states that the new Mazda 6 would be a 4-door only.

    Why would they hint to future 5-door or wagon models in the future when they are trying to sell cars, today? Remember, in 2003, when the Mazda6 was introduced, there was no 5-door or wagon, nor did they hint about one either."

    Simple. I want to buy a Mazda 6 hatchback, but I'm not necessarily a fan of the Mazda 6 sedan. With Mazda not making the intention of introducing a hatchback known, I might assume they will not make a hatchback at all and buy a competing sedan (Accord) or hatchback (Subaru Forrester). Or I may decide to get a used Mazda 6 hatchback. [As you and I know, Mazda would make no money off a used vehicle.] But if they let it be known that there will be a hatchback in 2010, I'll simply wait till then and get the Mazda 6 hatchback!

    By not telling me of their intention to introduce the hatchback, they lose me as a Mazda 6 hatchback customer! Simple.

    Remember that when the Mazda 6 was first introduced in 2003, they weren't sure how well it would be received by the market and it therefore didn't make sense to expand the model lineup. But this time, they already have a good idea of the demand for the hatchback. So if they intend producing a hatchback later, why not make that known? Why risk losing potential hatchback customers? They've already made it known that they intend producing a Mazdaspeed 6......

    "How about you wait and drive one before you call it the next Accord."

    I guess you have a point here. I agree.
    But I'm just so annoyed at Mazda for some of the decisions they've taken about the Mazda 6.
    Besides, I've driven several cars with manumatic automatics and they're just not compelling choices. I drove a manumatic BMW 335i and a manual 335i on the same day. The manumatic was good, but the manual was really heaven on earth. Huge difference.
    Because of the lack of a clutch, I often forgot to shift the manumatic after a while. Shifting became an annoyance instead of a joy. After 5 minutes or so, I simply put it to full automatic. In short, driving a manumatic feels like driving a toy (because my left foot is not involved and I don't feel any mechanical link when I shift). Manumatics are crap and I wonder why they're selling at all.....I bet most drivers just use the full auto mode.
    The reason I mention the 335i manumatic example is that I know a Mazda 6 V6 manumatic wouldn't satisfy me the same way a Mazda 6 V6 manual would. If Mazda wouldn't sell V6 manuals directly to dealers for understandable economic reasons, they should at least make them available by order. I don't see what's so difficult or expensive about that.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    But this time, they already have a good idea of the demand for the hatchback.

    Yes, they do. Now what does the fact that Mazda chose not to sell the 5 door hatchback here tell you that they know about the demand? What does the fact that no manufacturer (ignoring the current Mazda6) is producing a mid-size hatchback sedan for the US market, tell you that they all know?

    There are also nearly no moderately priced mid size wagons in the US market. The Passat is about it, and it is not even all that moderate in price. Edmunds lists the Outback, but I think most would consider that to be a "cross-over".
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Posts: 775
    Because each engine/transmission combination has to have a separate EPA/emissions certification and that costs a lot of money. If the V6-manual is projected to be only a tiny percentage of Mazda6 sales, it becomes cost-prohibitive and un-profitable to make, sell, and certify them in the U.S.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Mazda does not sell a hybrid car, what does that tell you jeffy? No market for a hybrid car?

    Mazda6 hatch has sold well in the past and there is a maket for it.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Mazda does not sell a hybrid car, what does that tell you jeffy? No market for a hybrid car?

    One small player in the US not playing in a particular market is quite different from essentially no one doing so. Either every single manufacturer is too dumb to realize that there is a massive untapped market of would-be midsize hatchback buyers in the US or a handful of Mazda6 5-door owners are mistaken about the viability of a midsize hatch. I'm gonna go with the second option.

    Mazda6 hatch has sold well in the past and there is a maket for it.

    Is there any objective evidence of this? What are the sales figures for the hatch vs. the sedan?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    I bet most drivers just use the full auto mode.

    I have 9600 miles on my 07 Mazda6 auto and have never once been out of full auto. That's not why I bought the car. I like nice handling cars but just don't want to shift. I was stuck in a traffic jam during a snowstorm one time and it took me 6 hours to go about 50 miles. I had a stick at the time and I swore my left leg was going to fall off. I swore that I would never have a stick again and haven't.

    However, I agree that anybody that wants one should be able to get one as long as they are willing to pay the price of a special order if necessary. Don't know how much it would be worth....guess that would determine if someone was a real enthusiast or not.
  • zippy75zippy75 Posts: 1
    Put me in the column of those 6 owners who was anxiously awaiting the new model but probably will not consider it if offered as a sedan only. I bought the 6 because it was one of the few cars that offered both sportiness and utility. If I wanted a straight sedan there are others I'd probably rather have... the Acura TL for example. I'm glad the N/A version doesn't look as bad as the spy shots led us to believe, but those fog lamp surrounds just look positively cheesy. Hopefully somebody will offer an aftermarket grille that looks like the Euro version.
  • "But this time, they already have a good idea of the demand for the hatchback.

    Yes, they do. Now what does the fact that Mazda chose not to sell the 5 door hatchback here tell you that they know about the demand? What does the fact that no manufacturer (ignoring the current Mazda6) is producing a mid-size hatchback sedan for the US market, tell you that they all know?"

    Exactly my point! If Mazda has not stated or hinted that they'll released a hatchback version of the new Mazda 6 at some point, then it's safe to assume that they won't or don't intend to.
  • m6user, sorry about your 6-hour 50-mile ordeal. If I may ask, what model was that stick shift?

    I drive an '02 Protege, a stick shift. I've also recently test-driven new cars with stick shifts: '07 Mazda 3, '07 Mazda 6, '07 Honda Civic Si and '08 BMW 335i. One thing I noticed about all these new models is that the clutch is very "soft" or "light", unlike my Protege's clutch that is "stiff" or "hard". The clutches of these new cars weren't tiring at all........I'm sure you or I wouldn't get tired after a 6-hour 50-mile ordeal in a new manual transmission car. It appears manufacturers have made huge advances in the past few years to make clutch pedal operation less tiring.

    m6user, if you don't believe me, next time you buy a car test-drive a manual. You'lll realise that I was right......maybe you'll go back to buying sticks again!!! :)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    Well, that was longer ago than I care to remember and in a car that I would also like to forget. A 1972 Pinto. Actually, now that I'm older and have a little more spending money we are able to keep three vehicles for the wife and I. I have actually thought about getting another stick because I don't have to commute anymore and one of the vehicles is pretty exclusively mine to drive. However, my wife absolutely refuses to let me buy a manual. Her rational(even if she doesn't drive it for a year or more) is that if I am away and the only spare vehicle sitting in the driveway is something she can't drive and her car breaks........well you know the rest of the story.

    Thanks for the suggestion and I have absolutely no reason not to believe you. I drove a little diesel stick in Italy a few years ago and loved bugging around Lake Gorda and the countryside near Croatia. BUT it's a lot cheaper to pay for the slushbox than divorce the wife. Actually more fun at times as well---the wife I mean. ;)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I thought you had meant to imply that you thought there was a lot a demand for the 5 door. I think there is very little demand, the Mazda6 is the only mid-size hatchback on the market...so if there were a lot of demand for such vehicles it should be out selling the sedan.

    While unlikely, I do think there is still some (small) chance of the new 5-door coming to the US at some point, because they do make it for the rest of the world.

    In 2003, when only the sedan was sold here, did they sell the 5 door and/or wagon elsewhere?
  • milkman1milkman1 Posts: 80
    The reality is that there isn't much demand for a hatchback, yet. When my friends com back from Europe they all gripe about how much sense they make and how more people would find they can get by with things other than an SUV here. I have a 6 sedan and with that massive pass through I have been able to haul most of what I need for construction projects, camping trips with friends and everything else I needed for 5 years. If they marketed the utility along with the sportiness headway could be made. You need to convince SUV drivers to scale down not convince sedan drivers it's worth the extra money.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    What are the sales figures for the hatch vs. the sedan?

    2004-2005 5-door sales were pretty good, still not as high as sedan sales. For 2006-2008 5-door sales have been pretty poor. From a sales stand point, the sedan is a clear winner.

    I cannot find the exact sales figures, however, I do know that there has been talk in my region about the lack of interest in the 5-door Mazda6.
  • Ford (I mean Mazda) would have to spend way too much money putting a manual into that engine combo, due to the fact that the 3.7 liter is only used with a auto in any of its combinations, even in it's 3.5 size. The cost to make the manual, considering getting it certified by the government and the simple fact sales would be miniscule makes it huge.

    Same with the wagon.hatchback. The design is now completely different than the euro model and sales of the last version of both more than sucked, rebates generally were 1000-2000 more dollars than the sedan.
  • Thanks for the info, Jake. I guess it's more understandable now. I can't help but feel sad and somewhat betrayed by Mazda that some of the reasons I loved the Mazda 6 (hatchback, V6 manual) are no more! :(

    I was under the false impression that manuals were cheap to produce, though, since they're far simpler and don't require any hydraulic circuits, microprocessors nor sensors...... But I guess I'm wrong?
  • I see!

    I hope your wife can see the other side of the equation: you enjoy driving and a stick would give you that satisfaction.
    One thing I've always failed to understand about women: why are they never willing to learn new things, especially driving stick shifts? Your wife is not the only woman I know who refuses to learn. I think it would be nice of her if she would spend the one week or so to learn to drive it!

    Any women here? Perhaps you could explain womens' perspective on the issue to me.......
  • I'd love to get my hands on a 07 or 08 hatchback, but there have literally been none in my area for the past year.

    Also, the drawback with the 6 hatchback is that in the 08 model, you can only get the manny transmission in the lowest trim! It's almost a slap in the face. No wonder they're not selling when they only let you buy strip-down models with manny transmissions. There is just NO common sense in mazda's thinking...

    The 07 model didn't have this problem, but like I said, I couldn't find any new ones anywhere last year.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    2004-2005 5-door sales were pretty good, still not as high as sedan sales. For 2006-2008 5-door sales have been pretty poor. From a sales stand point, the sedan is a clear winner.

    I cannot find the exact sales figures, however, I do know that there has been talk in my region about the lack of interest in the 5-door Mazda6.


    And this is despite the tough competition in the sedan category vs. almost no competition in the hatch category. Some here seem the think the decision to not sell a hatch in the US was made just to be mean to them, rather than being simply a business decision.
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