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Acura TL vs Infiniti G35

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Comments

  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Not to mention if we're talking about leasing, the BMW price disadvantage may be reduced or eliminated.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    kd....as far as I've heard, next up for the 3 Series will be a massage from their "M" dept. Could be wrong, but given the accolades of the current 3, I don't see them changing much in standard issue guise.

    I think Infiniti is focusing on the new "G coupe". Don't see much in the way of changes on the sedan.

    TL/TL-S is pretty much the same from '07 to '08...big change will be for the '09 MY.

    I've got the 330i that's in its 2nd year of sitting in my garage. While it's tempting to go for a 335i, I've never been disappointed in the performance of the 330i. I've absolutely loved my 3 series. I've even learned to like my I-Drive (not nearly as good as the Nav in the TL, though). It took some time to master it and understand the design intent. Build quality and materials in the 3 are superb....compared to the IS (which is very good in its own right), G or the TL.

    Looking down the road a bit, I'll probably be in the market again in a couple of years (when the warranty of the 3 is gone). We'll see what all these fine cars have on tap in the '09 time frame.

    If I could wish for the perfect car, it would be a 335i with the room of the TL (I guess they'd call that the 5 series, which is more than I want to spend).

    That's why the redesign of the TL has peaked my interest. IF Acura can keep it's current style, refinement, feature content and price....while upping the performance quotient (300 HP + SH-AWD), I could very well be a buyer.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Posts: 151
    Would you buy the TL in its frst year of the redesign?
    I am actually waiting to just to get peak, I almost signed off on a GS350 but Lexus needs to get the tire size and wheel design right on that car.The G35 was next but after Nissan's press release about an upgraded interior and Sport Package for 2008, I have decided to wait it out.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I think you need to pull the trigger....or else you would be forever looking and waiting. Afterall, they always promise something better the next year. It's like waiting to buy a computer at the best price.
  • slzweibelslzweibel Posts: 33
    I have a 2004 TL - 1st year for the redesign - has many little squeaks and noises that drive me crazy that Acura has not been able to (or willing to) find or fix. For this reason I would be hesitant to get a first year redesign car again. Will be out of my lease in October and am looking at either the TL-S, the G35x sedan, or possibly a 3 (xi) series. I think the 3-series is too small and everyone has one (some say because it is the best car out there). The 5 series is gorgeous but a little above my price range. I am worried about G35 reliability but most of what I read states that the 2007 car is more reliable than in past years. The TL-S seems like a great car for the $$$ but I might be looking for more of a change from my 04 TL. In the end it will probably come down to test driving each car along with $$$. In 04 when I test drove the G35 back to back with the TL it was an easy decision for me to choose the TL. Any comments???
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    billy....I don't subscribe to the theory that first year cars somehow are worse than subsequent years production. This is particularly true with Honda products. GM? Ford? I may be a little more suspect.

    Even at that, I bought one of the first redesigned Mustang GTs to hit my 'burg in '05. It was perfect. Sold it 9 months late for more than I paid for it, too (bought it under Ford's employee plan).

    Quality control, for all manufacturers, has become so good in recent years, I don't worry too much about first year buggaboos. I do feel that there is still a gap in engineering prowess between GM, Ford and the likes of BMW and Acura/Honda. American makes still are suffering from the hangover of being designed with the least cost in mind. They're getting better. They just haven't caught up, from an engineering standpoint, to Honda/Toyota/BMW.

    I see some of that same cost cutting in Nissan/Infinit products. They're getting better. But, IMHO, Honda/BMW are still the benchmarks. Even mighty Toyota has slipped a bit in this regard.

    I tried to buy an IS 350 when I was shopping for the BMW 3. While, I do think Lexus is getting closer to my definition of a sport sedan, they aren't there, yet. GSs are nice cars. But, given the price point, I'd pick a 5 series over the GS. Like you've found out, Lexus just sort of slightly misses the mark with their products, every time I consider purchasing one.

    I've tried to buy Infinitis several times. For one reason or another, there was always something out there at their price point I liked better.

    I thought my previous TL was top notch when it came to build, features and materials. I tried to convince myself that I wouldn't notice the handling differences with FWD. Maybe that bothers me more than most. Maybe I drive my cars harder than most. But, it bothered me so much, I sold it and got the BMW. If the TL-S was available when I was in the market, I may have had a different experience. I think Acura has done a wonderful job massaging the suspension.

    If the '09 TL ends up being what's been rumored, it will be the perfect time for me to give it another look. My BMW will be out of warranty, and I'll be in the market, again.

    I like the G. I just don't love it. That doesn't make it a bad car. They keep improving it. That's a good thing. I liked my TL. I love my BMW. If my TL had the SH-AWD when it first came out, I would have kept it.

    The 335i is a great car (as is my 330i). Problem there is, to get a 335i all loaded up, like I like them, the car creeps towards mid $40s and beyond. I'm assuming Acura has learned their lesson with the RL....that is, it's one thing to stuff a lot of tech into a car. It's quite another making all that tech to be greater than the sum of its parts (like the TL does).

    As has been Honda's recent moves, every new redesign of their products offers better and more, for about the same price. If the '09 TL does come in at the '08 TL-Ss price, with 300 HP and SH-AWD, I'll give it a very serious look.

    We'll see. This is an exciting time for fans of sports sedans. It looks to continue.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I don't think Acura will be able to offer SH-AWD without a significant bump in price ($2k?). The 300hp, yes, but not the AWD.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Posts: 151
    Very well put-it is exciting times but the wait is killing me.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    bodble....I don't know that enough suspension massaging could be done to drop in a 300 HP motor and keep it FWD. Honda hasn't exactly been at the forefront with RWD, either.

    So, if I were a betting man, I'd say for '09 they keep the Type-S motor as stadard fare and go to SH-AWD...or, use the RL motor and have no choice but to go SH-AWD.

    Maybe they do none of that, keep what they've got, and settle for sheet metal upgrades. I don't see them doing that with the Accord platform being completely reworked for next MY and straying from their 5 year redesign cycle.

    If for no other reason than keeping up with the competition, they'd have to hit the 300 HP mark. That would also dictate SH-AWD, too. Acura can't raise the price. They'd be conceding defeat to the likes of the G and CTS if they raised the price.
    BMW has taken the top end of the price scale. G slots itself just below that. CTS (with the General's incessant rebates) slots at or near the G. TL has always been the value leader. That's tough ground to concede.

    A $2K price increase from where the TL-S is now, puts it right in 335i territory. If I were Acura, I wouldn't want to play in that sandbox, for no other reason than they don't have the cachet to play there. Plus, with the RL being discounted to low $40s, that would cause a marketing problem.

    In short, they have to stay at, or near, their price range now...offer 300HP and SH-AWD just to keep what they've got in the marketplace.

    Again, there are just so many good cars in the sport sedan marketplace, that the competition keeps pushing each manufacturer to out do the other, yet keep a cap on prices.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "Honda hasn't exactly been at the forefront with RWD, either."

    What's wrong w/ the S2000 and the NSX?

    "A $2K price increase from where the TL-S is now, puts it right in 335i territory."
    Shoot, at its current price point, it's already at 335i territory, albeit, a stripper but still there. Even it was 2k more, you still won't get a similary equipped BMW for that price. Conversely, you wouldn't get the performance of the BMW at any price Acura asks for the TL S.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    gg...absolutely nothing wrong with either the S2000 or the NSX....two very good cars that were RWD. Point I was making, with all the models in the Acura/Honda stable over the years, the vast majority of them have been FWD. That's where their expertise lies. Comparatively, their RWD design experience has been limited to those two models.

    Now, they're expanding into the SH-AWD technology. That looks to be a good move, by most reports.

    $39K will get you a "stripper" 335i. I've yet to see one of those, though....believe me, I've looked. Most 335is are well into the $40K range.

    Hey, I'm a BMW lover and owner. You're kind of preaching to the choir with me. The IS, G and others have taken many shots at the 3 Series and still come up short. Acura has done the same.

    Which brings me to my original statement....if the '09 TL does indeed sport 300 HP and SH-AWD, with the current feature content and keeps the price they currently sell for, they will have a nice sports sedan that competes with them on performance (at least on paper), but with a -15% price advantage over the IS350 or BMW 335i. The price advantage over the G will be smaller (not MSRP, but real world prices).

    Found this tidbit....

    http://www.autospies.com/news/New-Acura-Sedan-Prototype-Spy-Shots-18329/

    Looks like the '09 TL gets the new Acura grill (although hard to tell with the camo). Interesting to note, Acura says they want all their cars to be SH-AWD and they want V8s. Should make for interesting discussion before the '09 TL hits the market.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Ya know, if I *ever* decide on buying a 3er, I would do ED and get a 335i stripper w only the sport package and a 6MT. Everything else would be useless. That should keep it below 40k ;)
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    No leather, for a $40K car? :confuse:
  • willis3willis3 Posts: 76
    Infiniti G35 didn't fare too well in the low speed crash testing.

    WSJ Article
  • johninnjjohninnj Posts: 243
    That should raise my INS symbol...thankfully it has a great safety rating...it's just profitable for the body shops.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Neither did the TL.
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    These low speed bumper tests only tell us what the cost would be to repair the cosmetic damage.
    If I get bumped in the rear bumper (leaving myself open with that comment), the cost will be on the driver who hit me and not on me, unless I back into something.
    Rearview camera and a brain help to avoid these types of accidents.

    The fact is that the TL and the G both have very high grades in real crash tests, and the G holds the title for the least amount of fatalities.

    It may cost a few bucks to repair fender benders, but these cars keep us and ours safe when real accidents occur.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "G holds the title for the least amount of fatalities."

    As a percentage or absolute number?
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    I believe the stats are rates per million.
    I've posted the link in the past, just can't seem to find it right now.
    :cry:
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Yes, I realize that. Thanks. I just wanted to point out that the TL did not fair that much better than the G cost to repair wise.
  • I presently have an 04 TL coming off lease and am seriously considering the G35X. My rims on the TL seem to have been easily scratched. Part of this might be that I park in NY City a lot and in a parking garage where the "rocket scientists" that park my car really could care less about what damage they leave behind. I also have the impression that the rims on the TL stick out beyond the tire and are maybe more easily damaged. Any impressions on the G35's wheels/rims? Or should I just take driving lessons and park my car in a different garage!?! :)
  • johninnjjohninnj Posts: 243
    Same situation here (Out of TL lease, into G, scratched wheels). TL wheels were cheaply painted silver instead of brushed finish, and the tires are on the small side for that size wheel...leaving no buffer. I actually bought a used set on ebay and turned my lease in with them (600 total). Turanzas are horrible tires also. I always look at TL wheel lips and many of them are scratched...it doesn't take much at all to peel the paint right off. G Sport has normal tire overlap and real metal finished wheels. I'm sure I've very lightly brushed something by now, but have no signs.
  • I agree - the Bridgestones were awful! I wore them out after only 21K miles and replaced them with Pirelli P Zero Neros - what a difference! It was like driving a new (and better) car. These tires really grip the road and I've never had a problem with rain or snow.

    I hope I don't get charged for the rim damage on the TL and they take it as normal wear and tear.
  • johninnjjohninnj Posts: 243
    Honda (Unlike infiniti), is very good with lease turn in. I had 50K + miles, with the corresponding wear. Chips here and there, few scratches, horribly worn leather seat, Orig brakes / rotors; I got tagged for nothing but miles. Honda finance was always a pleasure to deal with. Infiniti financial Service (Dealer's finance guy even warned me since I am in finance) are pretty much clueless. No way to pay online without being charged a fee, first level support like Q & A robots...etc. They also don't have any damage waivers on their leases. I don't hold it against the WONDERFUL car though ! !
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    I have no basis to state this as fact, but the new Accord is going to have a 270 HP V6, then it stands to reason that the '09 TL will be somewhere around 300HP. One of the engineers actually said there's a push internally to go with a V8. I'm sure those decisions are already made, but putting a V8 in a TL, with SH-AWD...keeping the price at or near the current car, with the current feature content, build quality, etc....would probably make me a buyer.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "...putting a V8 in a TL, with SH-AWD...keeping the price at or near the current car, with the current feature content, build quality, etc....would probably make me a buyer."

    Probably? Where does the lineup start?! :shades:
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    I know there are people that see the "8" in "V-8" and immediately get all excited, but why does Acura need to go with a V-8 to get to the 300 HP mark?
    Isn't it just more unnecessary weight?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    My buddy at Acura has given me a couple of rumors regarding future Acuras.

    According to what he has heard...

    The RL will get a V8 in a couple of years and a long wheelbase option.

    The TL will get a more powerful V6 and SH-AWD about the same time. It might get a V8 sometime after that.

    The TSX gets SH-AWD around the same time and maybe the turbo 4 cylinder out of the RDX. There will also be a TSX coupe to replace the RSX.

    If all that happens Audi better watch out.
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    I know that the entire line-up will soon be SH-AWD.
    I'm hearing it from way too many sources for it to not be true.

    I'm absolutley loving my 07 G and wouldn't change my mind and go back for an 07 TL for anything... but with that being said...
    I can't wait to see what the 09 brings.
    The TL vs G decision was a very hard one to make.
    With everything rumor added into the 09, it'd be a no-brainer.
  • factfinderfactfinder Posts: 103
    Rumors are just that -- Rumors. The TL is late to the show. Honda has been working on the TL for nearly a decade -- and they are still in last place.
This discussion has been closed.