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Mitsubishi Montero

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Comments

  • phonosphonos Posts: 204
    "a solid axle is universally regarded as stronger than independent."

    Personal experience -- my son managed to break the (solid) front axle where it enters the pumpkin on my 3/4 ton 1986 4x4 Suburban (Dana, I think) while offroading.

    If solid axles are so strong, why do they need aftermarket axle trusses?
  • phonosphonos Posts: 204
    You asked,"Did you notice that the stiffer tire improved handling."

    The steering seems to be more responsive now with the "D" range, Tri-Guard sidewall BFGs, which, I think, was a complaint in some of the road tests on the 2001.

    -PHOnos
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    You think IFS can handle off-roading better????!! Solid axles are not indestructible. But they are a lot stronger than IFS.

    Anyone can break anything, Phonos. I am sure i can find a way to break a Dana 60 or 80. However, it will be A LOT harder to break it than IFS. There was no point to your story.
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    Axle Truss is to provide additional armor to the differential. All suspensions have differentials. In independent suspension, the diff is tucked up into the body (thus, independent suspension vehicles SHOULD have higher ground clearance). My 4runner's IFS has a skidplate underneath the front differential to protect it.

    In solid axle, the diff (aka "pumpkin") is lower. The truss is like a skidplate for the diff (just like what my 4runner has in front). It DOES NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE STRENGTH OF AXLE. Therefore, it would not have helped your son's problem.

    The "pumpkin" is still a lot stronger (harder to break) than the control arms on an independent suspension. Also, the halfshafts on the independent suspension is vulnerable. Just ask your son.

    What is your point again about axle trusses??
  • phonosphonos Posts: 204
    True, some axle trusses have skid plates to add abrasion protection, but I suggest you look up the engineering definition of "truss".
  • phonosphonos Posts: 204
    The latest weight saving materials now in use in aerospace industry are beginning to find their way into other industries .

    Engineering composites, and other "plastics" are being used in such things as jet engine nacelles, wing skins, helicopter rotors, space station trusses, radomes, missile fins, jet engine guide vanes, etc. Pretty harsh environments, yes?

    Only thing probably better would be a titainium alloy, but cost prohibitive.
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    Montero costs around $32K. It is not the space shuttle or cruiser missles. How about if i cut the "plastic" skidplates and examine it...do you think i will find aerospace materials or pure plastic found at your local hardware store????

    Come on, let's not go too far. If you say that then i can claim the metal skidplates on my brother's Wrangler Rubicon as being from the space shuttle itself! Is that going too far??

    You still have not answered my question: do you think IFS is stronger than a solid axle in off-roading??
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    >>Most important of all, BMW and Mercedes safety features are unbeatable. Over and over again, BMW & Merc are the safest cars around.<<

    How'd we gravitate to this? Anyway.. those are safe designs but they are not only beatable, they are surpassed in some cases. Lets go to their own continent: The EuroNcap (People who wrote the book on thourough crash testing) Rates the 9-5 as the "safest sedan they've ever tested".

    Doesn't really matter but people fall into those traps sometimes. There are Plenty of cars out there that are every bit as crashworthy and more so in some cases as a BMW or Merc. Plenty of domestic, Asian and European designs.

    Drew
  • wonbwonb Posts: 8
    Independent suspension is on some of the finest on and off road vehicles as well as luxury autos.

    Solid axles dont handle as well and in rough corners you can loose directional stability.

    Independent suspension is superior. You really need to read a little more or at least intertain the real reason Toyota still uses it....to save money.

    Intmed: Once again you show that your bias for what ever Toyota makes to cloud your judgement.
  • wonbwonb Posts: 8
    I can give you at least a dozen people in the off road buisness who will attest to the Montero's reliability and quality build. Can you tell me where you are getting your data saying the Montero is not built well?
  • wonbwonb Posts: 8
    Once agian you demonstrate your ignorance of the newer unibodies. They are far more resistent to flex than the body on frame models. Where do you get your information. Are you an engineer? Do you read anything?
  • wonbwonb Posts: 8
    Not again, geez. Plastics have found there way into many areas where steel was once used. There is no reason to think that a nice strong piece of plastic would not be suitable as a skid plate. It might even cost less and weigh less.
  • wonbwonb Posts: 8
    0-60 in 9.6. V8 like engine performance with an INCREASE in gas mileage over the 02.

     
    First Test: 2003 Mitsubishi Montero Limited
    Fortified with more power, beautified with less cladding

    By Ron Sessions
    Motor Trend, December 2002
    In the world of largish SUVs, the Montero goes its own way--confidently and independently. And for '03, the big Mitsubishi struts its stuff with more gusto, thanks to a larger, more powerful engine. Mitsubishi bored and stroked last year's 3.5L V-6 to 3.8L, slipped in a more aggressive cam profile, increased airflow into and out of the engine, and upped compression from 9.0:1 to 10.0:1. Horsepower rises 7.5 percent, from 200 to 215, and torque climbs from 235 to 248 lb-ft.

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       Specifications
     
       
    Base price: $36,597
    Vehicle layout: Front engine, 4wd, 4-door, 7-pass
    Engine: 3.8L/215-hp V-6, SOHC, 4 valves/cyl
    0-60 mph, sec: 9.60
    1/4 mile, sec/mph: 17.05/80.13
    Slalom, mph: 53.5
    Braking, 60-0, ft: 127.6
    On sale in U.S.: Currently
     
     
     

    "On the road, the larger V-6 feels richer at launch and has more staying power at the top end. Mid-range, part-throttle response is more satisfying too because peak torque is developed at lower engine speed. The good news is this V-8-like performance has no fuel penalty. In fact, the 3.8L's EPA estimated city/highway fuel economy actually increases this year from 14/19 to 15/19, although premium fuel is now recommended. A five-speed Sportronic sequential-shift automatic transmission gives the driver the option of manual control."
  • wonbwonb Posts: 8
    This one attests to its quality build, reliability, comfort, capability, etc etc. Only the fact that everyone wishes it had a little more power stands out. Whats interesting is that Mitsubishi has already reduced the amount of chrome, increased gs mile and power in the 03 model.

    Please read the whole article, some nice comments including how the Montero did as well as the rest of the SUV field on thier test track with no indication of a roll over problem

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0210_verd/index2.html

     
    "One-Year Verdict: 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Limited
    What's New, Changed, Different
    It appears Mitsubishi product planners heard the gripes. For 2002, the busy (some say over-the-top) chrome door mirrors, taillight surrounds, and grille are changed to monochromatic, matching the Montero's exterior color, of which there are three new options. On the safety front, the Montero's second-row center seat now has a three-point safety belt and height-adjustable head restraint. Also, Mitsubishi has grouped popular and/or new options into two packages (Touring and Premium) for the XLS and Limited models, respectively. For 2003, changes are more substantial. XLS and Limited models get a fresh, new face with restyled grille, front fascia, and headlights plus cleaner side cladding that integrates standard side steps. More important, the SOHC 3.5L V-6 grows to 3.8L, offering more horsepower and much-needed torque. Dynamic Stability Control becomes standard on both models, while audio systems receive upgrades, as well.

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    From the Logbook
    "Over broken dirt roads, the independent rearend is just short of amazing. I love the 4WD (with locking diffs everywhere) and the 'We're here for you' tool kit in the rear door. I wish all serious SUV manufacturers were this thorough."--Mark Williams

    "I could do without some of the gratuitous chrome plating, but overall its unique take on SUV style sets it well apart from the omnipresent Explorers and Grand Cherokees."--Chris Walton

      
    "The Montero is the perfect adventure vehicle for doers. As my fondness for its abilities grows, so does my liking of the angry cyber-Samurai exterior."--Jeff Bartlett

    "The factory-fitted auxiliary driving lights are the best I've seen on a stock SUV or truck."--John Kiewicz

    "I used the Mitsu to move and discovered it rides much better on the freeway when it's loaded to the gunnels."--David Newhardt

    "The Montero feels upscale inside. I love the textures: high-tech modern briefcase meets Wall Street boardroom. It feels Range Rover-like tooling around L.A."--John Matthius

       WHAT'S HOT
     
       
    ·Race-proven off-road abilities
    ·Upscale, almost Range Rover interior
    ·Seats seven in comfort
     
     
     

    "If you want to get a feel as to how big it is, give it a hand wash--only be sure you invite a tall friend to help or bring along a step ladder and plenty of rags."--Walt Woron (Editor, Motor Trend, 1949-1960)

       WHAT'S NOT
     
       
    ·V-8 thirst with V-6 horsepower
    ·Excessive exterior chrome & cladding
    ·Eyeball-bending convex rearview mirrors
  • viet2viet2 Posts: 66
    [BTW, in general, unibody is cheaper to make than body-on-frame.]

    This is again a wild guest from intmed99. Body on frame are much cheaper to built because it required much less engineering. A "boxed" frame with solid axel housing and brakes line and some other part costs manafacturer about $200 dollars.

    [More strength?? Crash test does not prove this (look at Montero's scores). And i am sure the new 4runner/GX470 will get top grades in crash testing DESPITE being body-on-frame. Unibodies bend and twist (they have to) over rough terrains, no matter how much "strengthening" they have.]

    More strength in term of ride quality. Body on frame jiggle and have poorer ride quality. Refinement is the key here.

    The ONLY unibody that i respect is the new Range Rover...but look, it weighs AS MUCH as a body-on-frame (actually it is a bit HEAVIER). Do you know why?? Because they have to strengthened it sooooo much to prevent twisting. So, really what is the point of unibody???

    Do you know the weight of the Range Rover unibody itself? or just because you see the truck is heavier and assumed that the body is heavier?

    [What is superior about Montero's unibody & independent suspension?? Sure, it provides better ride (but rolls over!). Sure you have room for a tiny 3rd row seating...for this, i buy a MINIVAN. For crash protection?? Well, from the looks of things, Montero is no better than my old body-on-frame 4runner.]

    I just saw on TV a 4Runner rolled over on its roof. Do you mean that the 4Runner will not roll over?

    [So, what's the advantage??? Where's the magnificent engineering you guys have talked about?? ]

    The advantage is refinement, period.
    And you keep bringing up minivan. Let me point out to you that the Chrysler minivan and the last generation Siena has a beam suspension in the back. Both got beat by Honda minivan which has an independent suspension.
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    First, all the reviews that was posted is by the SAME people.

    I have always felt that minivans SHOULD have independent suspensions. I agree that the Honda minivan is excellent. It is also far more practical than ANY SUV out there.

    But, minivan is not an SUV in terms of capability. Engineering between the two are different.

    I never said the ride or handling will be better with a solid axle. It is just that the Montero, despite all-independent, has flaws in it's handling.

    All vehicle will roll over if the driver is not careful. HOWEVER, ONLY the Montero did bad in Consumer Report's test recently (Trooper and Suzuki were the other two). 4Runner NEVER had any problem with CR's tests.

    Range Rover's weight?? Where do you think it comes from?? It's suspension is independent (thus, likely lighter than solid axle). It's engine is a BMW engine. It has 5-people capacity (not 8). Look at Range Rover's unibody. It is quite impressive. Crawl underneath one...extremely well supported. BTW, it weighs MORE than a Lexus LX470!

    Body-on-frame jiggles?? That's more due to solid axle. That has NOTHING to do with "strength". Crash test results do have something to do with strength...and from what i can see, the Montero is no better than my old 4Runner.

    Go to a local Ford dealership...which is more expensive to build, Ford Windstar or Explorer?? A properly designed frame takes a lot of time and research. The BODY itself IS a unibody! Then, you have to design the frame. Finally, you need to determine the optimal placements of body-on-frame.

    Where did you get $200?? Did you call Toyota in Japan to ask??

    BTW, i really like the Montero's interior...i have never insulted that part of the Montero.

    WONB, i have read all of that ONE review source. BTW, did you read the review from TRUCKTREND (same as MotorTrend) on the '99 4Runner...it was quite amazing!

    Independent suspension IN GENERAL is better than solid axle in terms of ride and handling. Montero handling is not that good however. Most reviews have it's g-force around 0.69, no better than my 4runner or TLC.

    According to this Edmunds comparo, Montero was in LAST place:

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/53479/article.- - html?tid=edmunds.e.roadtests....Mitsubishi*

    Excerpt from that review:

    "The suspension delivers an acceptable level of comfort when cruising on the highway, but our off-road excursions revealed a setup far less comfortable than some of the more softly sprung vehicles in the test. Road feel is one thing, but harsh impacts over every nook and cranny begin to take their toll after a while, and more than one editor complained about the Montero's stiff ride."

    Ok, where's that amazing ride you guys talked about??

    However, independent suspension does NOT equal more CAPABILITY. Period. Poor wheel travel. Ground clearance not static. Control arms can get caught up on rocks. More things handing down to snag. More expensive to repair.

    I don't think Toyota was trying to save money. The Highlander has independent. Being one of the most profitable company, Toyota has enough funds to make an independent suspension if they saw the need. Obviously, they did not. It is called maintaining off-road capability. Toyota Land Cruiser and LX470 are known for their very good on-road ride...in fact, the LX470 has one of the best on-road ride of ANY SUV. Show me a review that criticizes the Land Cruiser or LX470 for providing a bad ride. You will find nothing.

    WONB, can you show me data that says that my 4runner is in the shop often???

    Strange, did Mitsu find a way to make the unibody on the Montero unbending?? Unibody is essentially ONE piece of metal. If one front and one rear wheel diagonal to it are on a rock, that piece of metal will twist, UNLESS you reinforced it heavily (aka Range Rover). In the Acura MDX (which has a really strong unibody), you are unable to close the doors in this position. Jeep Grand Cherokee, same thing. Unibody has this inherent weakness. Think about it.

    How many off-roading vehicle out there that you see have PLASTIC skidplates?? How many aftermarket manufacturers sell PLASTIC skidplates??

    How many axle "trusses" are made of plastic??

    I do not care about aerospace crap...this is a $32K car! BTW, i guess Saturn cars must be great off-roaders!
  • dmetzgerdmetzger Posts: 160
    Hate to burst your bubble, but my 96 Toyota T-100 4X4 SR5 X-tra cab has a plastic front skid plate. And it has held up very well. I have a 2000 Mitsu Montero Sport that has metal skid plates. Both rigs have been good units.
     I prefer the plastic to metal, because it does give a little and is less weight when taking off to change the oil.
     The Sport has two metal plates underneath the front that covers the entire front end and one underneath the transmission. It is cumbersome when changing oil for you have to remove the back plate before you can remove the front, for they overlap.
     Personally I have been looking at the Montero and 4-Runner for my next purchase. Pro's and Con's on both units. I do like the power better out of the 4-Runner, but like the space better in the Montero.
     Being subjective, it is a tough decision for me to make. I am a Toyota buff and have had many. But I have been impressed with the Sport. You can believe reviews only so far. Long term ownership is really what will tell the story.
     And, yes, there have been a few people who have not been happy with their Sports. There are three happy owners at my work place who own the Sport. But no one here owns a Montero. That is why I listen to what viet, phonos, brill, and others who own them, and have put on several miles on them, have to say about it. They have a good idea. I do not.
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    Yeah, i assume a plastic skidplate is easier to manage in terms of removing and putting it on. However, i want protection. Like i said, show me ONE aftermarket vendor who sales plastic skidplates.
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    <<BTW, i really like the Montero's interior...i have never insulted that part of the Montero.<<

    Intmed... That's your problem... your whole attitude here. You come in here to insult. I'm just curious why and why you care.

    Are there individuals posting here that follow you to the Toyata Boards to insult Toyota owners? I just don't understand people like you. Do you visit the homes of your family and friends and tell them all the things that are wrong with their homes and why yours is better? It wouldn't surprise me if you did.

    Drew
  • viet2viet2 Posts: 66
    [I never said the ride or handling will be better with a solid axle. It is just that the Montero, despite all-independent, has flaws in it's handling]

    The Montero set up is toward off-road. Thus the soft suspension setting and as car and driver call "colosal suspension traveling". All this translate into better ride quality while off-roading; specifically better than in a 4Runner.
       
    All vehicle will roll over if the driver is not careful. HOWEVER, ONLY the Montero did bad in Consumer Report's test recently (Trooper and Suzuki were the other two). 4Runner NEVER had any problem with CR's tests.

    The 4Runner set-up is stiffer, that is why the rough ride. Should be better handling, it is not. About CR's, I do not know. I have the truck for 3 years now and according to CR, I should roll over a couple of times now.

    Range Rover's weight?? Where do you think it comes from?? It's suspension is independent (thus, likely lighter than solid axle). It's engine is a BMW engine. It has 5-people capacity (not 8). Look at Range Rover's unibody. It is quite impressive. Crawl underneath one...extremely well supported. BTW, it weighs MORE than a Lexus LX470!

    Luxury car are heavier due to heavily re-inforce body, but also due to sound proofing and other luxury items, even seats are heavier. Independence suspension is not lighter than solid axel. It requires more mounting, arms, shaft. The advantage is less unsprung weight. This is my point about the 4Runner is cheaply built.

    Body-on-frame jiggles?? That's more due to solid axle. That has NOTHING to do with "strength". Crash test results do have something to do with strength...and from what i can see, the Montero is no better than my old 4Runner.

    Can you explain to me how a body mount on a frame won't jiggle. Do they weld the whole chassis to the frame?
    Strength is one thing, refinement is another thing.

    Go to a local Ford dealership...which is more expensive to build, Ford Windstar or Explorer?? A properly designed frame takes a lot of time and research. The BODY itself IS a unibody! Then, you have to design the frame. Finally, you need to determine the optimal placements of body-on-frame.

    They are both cheaply built. Let try Mercedes ML (body on frame and BMW X5 series. Which one do you think is cheaply built?

    Where did you get $200?? Did you call Toyota in Japan to ask??

    I read. That is from Automotive industry journal. I raised the price, it actually cheaper than that.

    Independent suspension IN GENERAL is better than solid axle in terms of ride and handling. Montero handling is not that good however. Most reviews have it's g-force around 0.69, no better than my 4runner or TLC.

    Ok, so you can see that independence suspension is better. So why would we want to buy something that offer less and cost more? If the handling is not better then the ride still is. And I am sure after you drive the Montero off-road, you will be impress as well. Good ride, nice interior.

    According to this Edmunds comparo, Montero was in LAST place:
    Excerpt from that review:
    "The suspension delivers an acceptable level of comfort when cruising on the highway, but our off-road excursions revealed a setup far less comfortable than some of the more softly sprung vehicles in the test. Road feel is one thing, but harsh impacts over every nook and cranny begin to take their toll after a while, and more than one editor complained about the Montero's stiff ride."

    According to Car and Driver, the 4Runner is not even luxury enough for their comparo. They also said that the Montero off road capability was just as good as the then Land Rover without being tossing head.

    [Ok, where's that amazing ride you guys talked about??]

    Try for your self, do not guess.

    However, independent suspension does NOT equal more CAPABILITY. Period. Poor wheel travel. Ground clearance not static. Control arms can get caught up on rocks. More things handing down to snag. More expensive to repair.

    I believe you, so your 4Runner have a front independent suspension and it is bad?

    I don't think Toyota was trying to save money. The Highlander has independent. Being one of the most profitable company, Toyota has enough funds to make an independent suspension if they saw the need. Obviously, they did not. It is called maintaining off-road capability. Toyota Land Cruiser and LX470 are known for their very good on-road ride...in fact, the LX470 has one of the best on-road ride of ANY SUV. Show me a review that criticizes the Land Cruiser or LX470 for providing a bad ride. You will find nothing.

    High Lander is a front driver. It is cheap and easy to have independence suspension. LC is nice but for 65K, give me a Cayene.

    Strange, did Mitsu find a way to make the unibody on the Montero unbending?? Unibody is essentially ONE piece of metal. If one front and one rear wheel diagonal to it are on a rock, that piece of metal will twist, UNLESS you reinforced it heavily (aka Range Rover). In the Acura MDX (which has a really strong unibody), you are unable to close the doors in this position. Jeep Grand Cherokee, same thing. Unibody has this inherent weakness. Think about it.

    Have you look? The Montero has 2 massive beams running the whole length of the truck, which is not unlike the frame on a body on frame at all, only bigger!. the only different is it is welded to the chassis.
    Think body on frame guaranteed toughness. Try an older Blazer you can see door gap widen during off road condition.

    How many off-roading vehicle out there that you see have PLASTIC skidplates?? How many aftermarket manufacturers sell PLASTIC skidplates??

    How many axle "trusses" are made of plastic??

    I can see that all you know about the Montero is very near zero and most of the thing you post is wild guesses. I am not trying to defend the Montero, I am not Misubishi, and I am not a fan like you are. But for my observation, Misubishi put alot of work on the Montero and and sell it cheaper then the 4Runner (which was my first choice at one time) I appreciate that just like I appreciate some one did a very good work building a house for less money. Your complain about unibody weakness and off-road capability has no bases here. Everyone know that the Montero has very good off-road capability, and the truck has not fall to pieces because of its unibody. Its suspension while not ultra luxury ride, does perform better in off-road condition both interm of ride and capability then many truck in its class, IMO. It is very funny when you keep complaining about the plastic skid plate, while you get much less for your money with your 4Runner. Skid plate can be replace cheap, less then $100. Dated design can not be change at any price... but then I am not going into that again, I do not think you can comprehend that :)
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