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Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,065
    Good news? No, just a bunch of meaningless nonsense !!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    The secret, dirty cost of Obama's green power push

    As farmers rushed to find new places to plant corn, they wiped out millions of acres of conservation land, destroyed habitat and polluted water supplies, an Associated Press investigation found.

    Five million acres of land set aside for conservation - more than Yellowstone, Everglades and Yosemite National Parks combined - have vanished on Obama's watch.

    Landowners filled in wetlands. They plowed into pristine prairies, releasing carbon dioxide that had been locked in the soil.

    Sprayers pumped out billions of pounds of fertilizer, some of which seeped into drinking water, contaminated rivers and worsened the huge dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico where marine life can't survive.


    http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/12/3747824/the-secret-dirty-cost-of-obamas.ht- ml
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    edited November 2013
    I don't disagree with the problem of the ethanol mandate, just do t recall Obama being the one who instituted it, but maybe I am remembering incorrectly. The problem is much more obviously the policing of these plots of land that had beens et aside as preserves, obviously the penalties are not high enough even if the got caught, is this Obama's fault or the states where it has happened fault? Asking because I am not sure who had jurisdiction over this land. In any case the ethanol scam definately was not a good decision, and should have been ended long ago, I still seem to remember it being introduced by a different President though, also even if Obama had been against it it seems the republicans would have stopped him from being able to do anything, just like they seem to with everything else ( not saying either side is behaving properly, they are both to blame for a lot of things, just like everywhere else in the world if two parties cannot work together to come to a good compromise than things start to break down).

    Edit : read the article in the link, seems strange that they are calling an Obama disaster when Bush is the one who signed the Ethanol subsidy into law, including the fact that it pretty much had to be from domestically produced corn ( thank the corn lobbyist for this disaster if you want to blame anyone really). Again it seems to be blame Obama for things that happened before he was even in power.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,877
    edited November 2013
    Just goes with the territory. Whoever POTUS is, s/he'll get the credit or the blame for whatever is on the radar at the moment.

    Meanwhile Chris Christie Claims Weight Problem Caused by Global Warming, which also explains Al Gore getting a bit pudgy. (guardianlv.com)

    Bill slimmed down, but he went vegan, which is about the same as a high ethanol diet I guess. I presume Bush II is continuing to lead by example and putting the miles on his mountain bike. (HuffPo)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    I still seem to remember it being introduced by a different President though,

    For sure it was another lame duck President, GW Bush that signed onto the ethanol mandate. The article focused on the doubling of land dedicated to growing corn for ethanol under the current president B. Obama. Everything I read says clearing land for corn with take over 90 years to mitigate the loss of the carbon sink provided by the forest removed. And that does not address the biggest problem which is the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. Corn producers want high yields. So they dump LOTS of Ammonium Nitrate on their crops. Anhydrous Ammonia is made from Natural Gas. Making the cost of Ethanol very questionable. It is purely a political football used to pay off the big farmers in our corporate Oligarchy. MIT scientists have debunked any GW benefit. Look at the big Ag companies to see who really benefits. It is not the American people or our environment.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    Dubya was a marginal leader. He is a great humanitarian. Unlike our current Potus. After the 2006 election, Bush lost the desire to lead. And we have this current mess as a result.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,877
    edited November 2013
    As opposed to the previous mess or the coming one? All you have to do is get in your high mpg SUV and roll with it, while feeling good that you're doing your part to reduce your emissions. :)

    Haven't seen a poll lately. This one is from Stanford as reported by AZ Central.

    "It finds that in every state surveyed, most Americans support tax breaks to produce renewable energy and reduce air pollution from coal as well as efforts to boost energy efficiency for cars, appliances and buildings.

    Less popular were government policies to encourage the building of electric vehicles and nuclear power plants. Most unpopular were higher consumption taxes on electricity and gasoline."

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  • texasestexases Posts: 5,685
    edited November 2013
    People obviously don't understand that 'tax breaks' = taxes. If somebody's paying less, somebody else is paying more. And the ugly truth is this:

    THE GOVERNMENT EFFORTS TO DATE REGARDING GREEN ENERGY HAVE MADE THINGS WORSE, NOT BETTER.

    I'm looking at you, ethanol (both corn and cane based), and biodiesel (resulting in the destruction of thousands of acres of rainforest). And wind turbines are killing valued wildlife by the hundreds of thousands.

    Here's just another sad chapter in the tale of government disasters:
    http://apnews.excite.com/article/20131113/DAA1JE8G1.html

    Then ONLY significant impact on coal use and CO2 emissions has resulted from the huge increase in natural gas production from those 'evil' oil and gas companies.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    As I pointed out , I agree, the biggest problem is the land that was supposed to be preserved, the question is why was it allowed to be used. In any case I don't think we are on different sides on this one, I was only calling out the title of the article ( which isn't your fault I. The least). I have a feeling that the land would have been used no matter who was president, after all it is big money who controls everything ( not just in he states, but pretty much everywhere) and that is who not only got the ethanol mandate passed, but also who used the land ( not small farmers, they don't really exist anymore).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    I totally agree it was the Mega Ag companies pushing the ethanol agenda. They did it in the late 1970s and most of those tax payer built stills are now rusted hulks with towns left devastated. Same will happen this time around. The auto makers should build cars that will run on E100 and quit messing with our RUG. Offer E100 for those with cars designed to run on alcohol. Brazil has a lot of them.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    Too funny how China is being so self righteous!

    Japan criticized at climate talks after slashing CO2 target

    Japan's 50 nuclear plants were closed on safety concerns after the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami wrecked the Fukushima reactors northeast of Tokyo. Nuclear accounted for 26 percent of Japan's electricity generation and its loss has forced the country to import natural gas and coal, causing its greenhouse gas emissions to skyrocket.

    Japan's new policy was criticized in Warsaw, where about 190 nations are meeting from November 11-22 to work on a global climate pact, due to be agreed in 2015.

    China's climate negotiator Su Wei said: "I have no way of describing my dismay" about the revised target.


    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/japan-drastically-scales-back-co2-emissions-cut-target-- 002021962--business.html
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,877
    edited November 2013
    Maybe they should check out the radiation emissions from Fukushima instead. They "set a record" just last week. (Tepco)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    Ah but the GW Cult only thinks about CO2. Nothing else seems to matter. No real logic is used by the politicians pushing the agenda. Only where can we go on vacation next at the expense of our country.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    Does the pollution from a Lithium battery fire cancel out any gains that the Tesla EV may have for our environment??

    image
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    EPIC FAIL: UN climate talks fall apart as 132 countries storm out

    Poor countries have demanded that the developed world give them $100 billion annually by 2020 to prepare for the impacts of global warming, such as heat waves and droughts. Brazil even put forward a proposal last week that would have made rich countries pay for historical greenhouse gas emissions.

    “The US, EU, Australia and Norway remain blind to the climate reality that’s hitting us all, and poor people and countries much harder,” said Harjeet Singh, spokesperson for ActionAid International. “They continue to derail negotiations in Warsaw that can create a new system to deal with new types of loss and damage such as sea-level rise, loss of territory, biodiversity and other non-economic losses more systematically.”

    Rich countries have so far resisted these proposals. Australia, Europe and the U.S. have all argued that the issue should be addressed in 2015, when the world is set to discuss a comprehensive climate agreement. Developed countries have also banded together to block attempts to create a whole new bureaucracy to handle climate “reparations” to poor countries.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/20/epic-fail-un-climate-talks-fall-apart-as-132-c- ountries-storm-out/

    If people are worried about rising seas, move inland. If they are worried about an Ice Age buy a coat. Robbing from the US and other countries based on fairy tales is just crazy. China leading the charge is really funny. They are the biggest producer of GHG. Let China chunk out $100 billion a year to tin pot dictators to further repress their people.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,293
    edited November 2013
    It might be the ultimate way to capitalize on the guilt that some brainwashed people are cursed with.

    China (and similar dens of hypocrisy and injustice like India and Brazil), what would we do without you...other than have less places for our treacherous executive class to send jobs. Virtually every time the word "reparations" is used, it is a code word for theft. And our guilted one world coexist demographic will support it.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,685
    "Brazil even put forward a proposal last week that would have made rich countries pay for historical greenhouse gas emissions."

    What a joke. They're ramping up their oil production as fast as possible to both use and to export to us 'rich countries'. and now they want to be paid twice - once for the oil, and again for our GHG emissions!

    The fact is that GHG emissions will rise in the future from all the 'poor countries', and will far exceed the GHG emissions that are already dropping from the 'rich countries'.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,877
    edited December 2013
    Did we go back to talking "weather" instead of "climate"? :shades:

    Too bad that "snow isn't a freak event in southern Australia in the warmer months." The whole country could use some relief after its hottest 12 months on record. (theguardian.com)

    California is leading the way, as usual. (sfgate.com)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    Weather is climate over a shorter time frame. I don't think anyone is denying the climate is changing. Most logical thinking people do not believe sending $billions to tinpot dictators or financing opulent conferences in exotic locations will change the climate. Most of us in CA do not like paying for the state to experiment with crackpot ways to change something that is likely to do as it will. Right now I am sitting in my beautiful home freezing at 64 degrees because I don't want to waste $20 a day on propane to keep it at 68 degrees. We had a cooler summer than normal and now we are getting early frost. More people will die from cold weather this year than died from any isolated heat extremes around the globe. Give me the warmer weather and those that want colder can move to a cooler climate. All the BS about rising seas. So CA was all under water at one time. So if you are worried move inland from the coast. Don't charge me triple the national average for Electricity and claim you are helping to stem GW.

    SFGATE and UK Guardian are very biased sources you used.

    The end result of CA leading the charge over the cliff is a huge loss of jobs. The highest poverty rate in the nation, and rising crime in the cities that are losing businesses. Most bankrupt cities in the USA. Hope it will be worth it to all the ECO Wonks that are pushing CA into the abyss. I am getting very close to pulling the plug and getting out while the getting is good.

    PS
    Most of the so called climate bills passed did no good, just made life worse for those at the bottom of the food chain.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,877
    There's a good argument that the drive for alternative "cleaner" power is driving job growth.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    edited December 2013
    Probably possible. Just not in the USA. US job creation is wishful thinking. Almost all of our Solar factories are shut down and moved to China. I don't think we build any of the 1000s of very expensive wind generators. How many batteries in EVs are manufactured in the USA. We assemble a few for the Volt. Yes we grow corn and make it into ethanol. Of course we are destroying the Gulf fisheries as a result. It will take close to 100 years of growing corn for ethanol to mitigate loss of CO2 absorbance provided by the forest cut down to grow the corn. I am not impressed with our knee jerk reaction to every crackpot Eco nut that gets on the Media. Worst part is our children are getting pumped full of half truths and out right lies that will push US closer to being a 3rd World nation. China will use what is available to power their industrial growth (coal) and use future technology when it becomes cheap. We will continue to shut down our industry with over priced solar, wind & regulations, then whine about the loss of jobs.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,877
    lol, that little BP spill had no effect at all either eh? Between Big Ag and Big Oil and Big Nuke, I think the fisheries are about done, not to mention years of over-fishing.

    Better buy stock in China. But focus on environmental companies.

    China’s Stocks Fall as Coal Shares Drop Amid Pollution (Bloomberg)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    I think the Japanese Nuclear disaster has ended my ocean fish eating forever. I love my seared Ahi and fresh Ono. I will have to get my fish from farm raised Tilapia from here or Central America. From the looks of the diseased herring, diminished Sockeye and glow in the dark Bluefin, ocean seafood is OFF my menu for good.

    I don't think any of the oil disasters compare to Fukishima. My guess is BP will pay the price for fishery losses in the Gulf. When it is likely a combo of the deadzone caused by big Ag and the oil spill. Harder to sue a farmer in Iowa for polluting the Gulf than it is BP. Of course either way we pay the price. It all gets passed down to the consumer and tax payers.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    Based on historical records, astronomers say the sun this fall ought to be nearing the explosive climax of its approximate 11-year cycle of activity—the so-called solar maximum. But this peak is "a total punk," said Jonathan Cirtain, who works at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration as project scientist for the Japanese satellite Hinode, which maps solar magnetic fields.

    "I would say it is the weakest in 200 years," said David Hathaway, head of the solar physics group at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala.

    Researchers are puzzled. They can't tell if the lull is temporary or the onset of a decades-long decline, which might ease global warming a bit by altering the sun's brightness or the wavelengths of its light.

    "There is no scientist alive who has seen a solar cycle as weak as this one," said Andrés Munoz-Jaramillo, who studies the solar-magnetic cycle at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Mass.

    To complicate the riddle, the sun also is undergoing one of its oddest magnetic reversals on record.

    Normally, the sun's magnetic north and south poles change polarity every 11 years or so. During a magnetic-field reversal, the sun's polar magnetic fields weaken, drop to zero, and then emerge again with the opposite polarity. As far as scientists know, the magnetic shift is notable only because it signals the peak of the solar maximum, said Douglas Biesecker at NASA's Space Environment Center.

    But in this cycle, the sun's magnetic poles are out of sync, solar scientists said. The sun's north magnetic pole reversed polarity more than a year ago, so it has the same polarity as the south pole.


    Could it be the sun is creating these extremes we are seeing or will the GW Cult stick with their man is all powerful mantra?

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304672404579183940409194498

    image
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    I think this shows how corrupt the EPA and our Federal agencies really are. All are pushing the GW scam as well.

    EPA warned of ex-official’s illegal salary, bonuses in 2010, watchdog report says

    In July 2010, the EPA’s human resources office contacted Beale’s Office of Air and Radiation with a document it had prepared titled “John Beale Pay Issues,” according to the report. The head of Beale’s department was Gina McCarthy, who is now the head of the EPA. The report does not make clear whether the document was given to her.

    A code on Beale’s timecard, approved by the Office of Personnel Management, initially allowed his salary to exceed legal limits.

    On Jan. 12, 2011, the EPA’s Office of General Counsel warned McCarthy’s staff to “stop retention bonus pay,” and McCarthy was asked to inform Beale, according to the report. But on April 2, 2012, McCarthy “confirmed no actions taken on retention bonus due to advice” from the head of the human resources department, according to the report.

    Beale’s bonus was not canceled until Feb. 5, 2013. He was forced to retire in April, when his base salary was $164,000. He will collect his pension.

    Beale, who pleaded guilty in September to stealing nearly $900,000 in government pay and bonuses, is scheduled to be sentenced in federal court Dec. 18. In court papers filed this week, his attorney, John W. Kern, asked for jail time at the “low end” of the 30 to 37 months that Beale faces under federal sentencing guidelines. Beale has agreed to pay more than $1.3 million in restitution and forfeiture as part of the plea deal.

    Top EPA officials have told investigators that they believed Beale’s story that he was working as a clandestine officer for the CIA and did not question his exorbitant hotel and first-class airfare bills or the bonuses he collected. The scheme began in 1994.


    Isn't that about the time the whole Al Gore GW scam got going good?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/epa-warned-of-ex-officials- -illegal-salary-bonuses-in-2010-watchdog-report-says/2013/12/10/8027e570-61f2-11- e3-bf45-61f69f54fc5f_story.html?hpid=z4
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,877
    Well, it's easy to focus on the foibles of humans but eventually the science will out. (theguardian.com)

    There's always a few hits like that when you search the news for GW.

    This one is more seasonable though:

    Greenpeace’s Santa Warns that Global Warming Could Cancel Christmas (nationalreview.com)

    “Dear children, regrettably I bring bad tidings,” the video begins. “For some time now, melting ice here in the North Pole has made our operations and our day-to-day life intolerable and impossible and there may be no alternative but to cancel Christmas.”

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,293
    I'd expect something like that from a shameless group such as Greenpeace. Hard to take squawky British media stuff seriously, too, seeing as that place is behind some previous ethical issues.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,065
    The GW scam has a lot in common with unintended acceleration. Both are driven (pardon the pun) by human error, fraud and greed.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158

    _Recall global warming hysteria’s halcyon days? Just 13 years ago, Dr. David Viner, senior scientist at Britain’s University of East Anglia’s climatic research unit, confidently predicted that, within a few years, winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event.”

    “Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said._

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/warming-593355-global-temperature.html

This discussion has been closed.