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Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited January 11

    In Town vs. Country, It Turns Out That Cities Are the Safest Places to Live (Time)

    Rural areas see more days of heavy pollution than urban neighbours (edie.net)

    Where were we? Oh yeah, how do they explain the Negev in the south? Did the nomadic tribes cause it to be a desert?

    While I'm being contrary, here's a polar vortex op-ed you'll like from the Detroit Free Press:

    "[T]here’s new research suggesting that the loss of arctic ice could contribute to the movement of the polar vortex, the weather phenomenon responsible for this cold weather."

    Here's a cold hard fact - global warming is real

    In propane news, you'll enjoy this (we tried to get the in-laws to switch to NG a couple of years ago - the pipeline is just down the block).

    Propane shortage hits U.P. hard

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    @Stever@Edmunds said: In Town vs. Country, It Turns Out That Cities Are the Safest Places to Live (Time)

    **hardly a fair analysis including accidents with violent crime. Urbanizing is the dream of Socialist. Much easier to control people that way. **

    Rural areas see more days of heavy pollution than urban neighbours (edie.net)

    **Where you are in the country plays a huge role in pollution. I agree some of the foothills in So CA get pollution from the dirty city air. **

    Where were we? Oh yeah, how do they explain the Negev in the south? Did the nomadic tribes cause it to be a desert?

    Never been to the Negev. :p

    While I'm being contrary, here's a polar vortex op-ed you'll like from the Detroit Free Press: "[T]here’s new research suggesting that the loss of arctic ice could contribute to the movement of the polar vortex, the weather phenomenon responsible for this cold weather."

    All spin with few facts. CC is happening and man may contribute. Not like the politicians want US to believe. It is purely a money grab.

    In propane news, you'll enjoy this (we tried to get the in-laws to switch to NG a couple of years ago - the pipeline is just down the block).

    Still cheap. I have not paid under $2.99 GGE for propane over the last 7 years. We have no NG option within 3 miles.

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited January 11

    Nothing is cut and dried; I just like razzing you with your declarations. B)

    After all your attempts at pigeon-holing and labeling, it's going to kill you to learn that my libations of choice are cab-sav and bourbon. :D (Washington Post)

    Back to GW, here's yet another fun link. (Scientific American).

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    More facts to spin away

    (NEW YORK) — In the midst of record-breaking bitter cold, the U.S. Coast Guard has been relentlessly fighting against ice buildup in the Great Lakes region in an effort to keep important shipping channels open.

    A massive swath of arctic air, known as a “Polar Vortex,” plunged temperatures well below zero from Chicago to Tulsa. In those temperatures, ice can form up to a foot thick in the rivers that connect the Great Lakes.

    The Coast Guard uses ice cutters — heavy ships that have thick, reinforced hulls and polar ice-breaking bows — to clear the major shipping route that separates the U.S. and Canada, so that freight-carrying ships can get through. Without the ice cutters, large freighters can get stuck.

    The ice cutters cut tracks throughout the channels, up and down the St. Mary’s River and through the Soo Locks. For those officers who work on the ice cutter boats, the job is far from easy.

    http://www.wwgp1050.com/2014/01/07/us-coast-guard-battles-ice-to-keep-shipping-channels-open/

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited January 11

    The Soo Locks closing schedule was set weeks (months?) ago - "5 days until the Soo Locks are closed for the winter". Fun webcam.

    The wolves walked across the ice in the '40s to get to Isle Royale so it's gonna need to get a bit colder before that happens again. Meanwhile GW is killing them. (HuffPo)

    Love how the media splashed "frozen Niagara" all over the other day, when the falls freeze every winter.

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  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 975
    edited January 11

    The author makes some pretty impressive leaps, especially this: "I find it odd how there aren’t even a handful of scientists who deny global warming presumably because the global warming mafia threatens to throttle them if they do... Should it be that hard for them to publish papers if the evidence is really good enough?"

    I don't remember the details but I'm pretty sure some of the emails in the East Anglia mess a few years back involved threats to publish elsewhere if a scientific journal dared to dignify a dissenting study. Judith Curry has some thoughts on the shifting standards for peer review.

    And then there's this.

    @Stever@Edmunds said:

    Back to GW, here's yet another fun link. (Scientific American).

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    @Claire@Edmunds said: And then there's this.

    We all know the consensus can only be if it agrees with the manmade GW theories. Amazing how many relatively smart people are sucked into the beliefs of a few loud mouthed charlatans like Al Gore.

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited January 11

    Curry hasn't published for two years now (other than her blog and stuff). Do you think she's been cut off by the scientific community? She had the falling out with Mueller/Berekely Earth around October, 2011. Before 2012, she was prolific in the journals for 28 straight years. Maybe she lost her grad students when she became department chair. :p

    Ah well, you've got me back on personalities instead of "facts".

    Did anyone else notice that the two stuck ships in Antarctica got their own selves unstuck back on the 8th and the Coast Guard stood down?

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    edited January 11

    @Stever@Edmunds said: Ah well, you've got me back on personalities instead of "facts".

    I think the spin and rhetoric from no nothing individuals like Al Gore and myself far outweighs any absolute FACTS. There have been far too many known lies in the data gathering for me to take GW seriously. Even the warmers admit the last 15+ years have been cooler and stopped the upward trend. Yet they still want to claim man causes whatever happens. No denying that Climate Changes occur. I just don't think spending $trillions, we don't have, will make any difference. Except in the pockets of the rich and political hacks.

    **Did anyone else notice that the two stuck ships in Antarctica got their own selves unstuck back on the 8th and the Coast Guard stood down? **

    No I did not and it was not easy finding it with a simple google search. Here is the only mention I found.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/08/22222323-trapped-research-ship-rescue-vessel-break-free-of-antarctic-ice?lite

  • eliaselias Posts: 1,903
    edited January 11

    for starters, we can ignore the engines and just look at the color of the cars and their contribution to the albedo of of the planet.

    someone can do the math and see what the reduction percentage of total atmosphere absorbed heat from sun, using % of earth surface covered by cars in the calculation. and for the initial calculation, compare the case of all cars being black to all cars being white. also for initial calculation, assume there are no clouds. this will give a sort of 'upper bound' on how much car color alone affects the amount of incident solar-heat and other wavelengths being reflected back into space.

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited January 11

    Ninety five percent
    of all scientists agree
    to warm is human

    IPCC haiku (deepseanews.com).

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    edited January 11

    Roses are Red

    Violets are swell

    Global Warmers Like Gore

    Should be Stuck with the Bill

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,870

    @Claire@Edmunds said: The author makes some pretty impressive leaps, especially this:

    Wow, those articles were right on target.. You hit it right out of the 'ol ball park Claire.

    Like Gary, I am continually amazed by the complete lack of a BS meter by the people who fall for the GW myth. I really don't think there are that many of these "suckers" out there, but that the vast majority of those who defend the GW agenda have some sort monetary and/or political interest that they are actually trying to defend.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    Most warmers are wanting to look green. Pushing the alternative energy program du jour. They are removed from reality by a euphoric cloud of self indulgence. They somehow believe they are making a difference, no matter the cost to our economy and well being. They are destroying their own lifestyle unknowingly.

  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,669

    gagrice:

    I found you by accident...I realize the site has changed, just like they have changed it in the past...but I currently have no starting point, so I do not know what I am doing...I hope you receive this post...

    Where do I start to learn what they have changed so I can work my way to "my watched items?"

    Thanks.

    Bob

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited January 12

    Hey Bob, welcome back! This is a good discussion to skim:

    Welcome to Edmunds New Forums!

    To find discussions that you may want to catch up in, you can go to Participated under your Profile on the right sidebar - that'll list any discussion you've ever posted in.

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,063
    edited January 13

    @marsha7 said: Where do I start to learn what they have changed so I can work my way to "my watched items?"

    The Participated group helps find old ones. Next to each topic name is a blue star; click it to turn it yellow, which means it's Bookmarked (Subscribed). Then you can use the Bookmarked list in the right-hand box to navigate.

    If there's a yellow highlighter on post's number in a list, there are new messages.

    Good to see you make it back!

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    @marsha7 said: gagrice:

    I found you by accident...I realize the site has changed, just like they have changed it in the past...but I currently have no starting point, so I do not know what I am doing...I hope you receive this post...

    Where do I start to learn what they have changed so I can work my way to "my watched items?"

    Thanks.

    Bob

    Hey Bob, Welcome back. Looks like the hands have put you back on track. No Rocky to harrass. He stays on FaceBook, where he can debate Sports, Unions and Politics all on the same long thread. Not nearly as easy to get through as Edmunds.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    Costa Rica Declares State of Emergency As Polar Vortex Sends Temperatures Below 75 Degrees Fahrenheit

    PLAYA HERMOSA – President Laura Chinchilla declared a State of Emergency yesterday as the polar vortex that froze most of North America blew in to Costa Rica and sent thermometers plunging to a record low 73°F (23 °C).

    Chinchilla urged Costa Ricans to take precautions as the Nordic front pushed south, encouraging citizens to wear covered-toe sandals and heavier tank-tops or even short-sleeved shirts. She also suggested that women wear adult-sized skirts, and for men to use less hair gel in case of a deep freeze.

    http://elpeji.com/2014/01/10/costa-rica-declares-state-of-emergency-as-polar-vortex-sends-temperatures-below-75-degrees-fahrenheit/

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    edited January 13

    Has Mike Mann trashed his own credibility??? What happened to your Hockey stick??

    When a man sues for damage to his reputation and grossly inflates that reputation in the very court filings, that says something about his credibility. Unlike the obtuse groupie Revkin, Professor Roger Pielke Jr of the University of Colorado, in a post on "embellishing science", grasps the significance of Dr Mann's fraudulent Nobel claim:

    Mann's embellishment has placed him in a situation where his claims are being countered by the Nobel organization itself. Mann's claim, rather than boosting his credibility actually risks having the opposite effect, a situation that was entirely avoidable and one which Mann brought upon himself by making the embellishment in the first place. The embellishment is only an issue because Mann has invoked it as a source of authority is a legal dispute. It would seem common sense that having such an embellishment within a complaint predicated on alleged misrepresentations may not sit well with a judge or jury.

    This situation provides a nice illustration of what is wrong with a some aspects of climate science today -- a few scientists motivated by a desire to influence political debates over climate change have embellished claims, such as related to disasters, which then risks credibility when the claims are exposed as embellishments.

    In other words, it's part of a pattern of behavior:

    In the suit against his detractors, Michael Mann claims to have won the Nobel Peace Prize. He has not in fact won the Nobel Peace Prize, but has merely been associated with an organization that won it. That he didn't say it this way, but instead said that he himself had won it, tells us a couple things about him.

    First, it shows that he's not very good with details. One would expect scientists, especially scientists who want to have an enormous effect on the lives of everyone on earth, to be rather good with details, but apparently Mann is not.

    Second, the way that he is not very good with details is that he exaggerates things.

    http://www.steynonline.com/5264/the-fraudulent-nobel-laureate

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    **On December 19, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals effectively erased Michael Mann’s initial court victory in his defamation lawsuit against Mark Steyn, National Review, Rand Simberg and the Competitive Enterprise Institute. **

    http://www.volokh.com/2013/12/27/mann-v-steyn-mulligan/

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    edited January 13

    Does this make Michael Mann a Fraud?

    Geir Lundestad, Director, Professor, of The Norwegian Nobel Institute emailed me back with the following:

    1) Michael Mann has never been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. 2) He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma. 3) The text underneath the diploma is entirely his own. We issued only the diploma to the IPCC as such. No individuals on the IPCC side received anything in 2007.

    Lundestad goes on to say that, "Unfortunately we often experience that members of organizations that have indeed been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize issue various forms of personal diplomas to indicate that they personally have received the Nobel Peace Prize. They have not."

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited January 13

    One of the wags at the home office complained last week that they had to wear socks with their sandals to work.

    "Merely been associated with". Mann was a lead author on the “Observed Climate Variability and Change” chapter of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Third Scientific Assessment Report. The group that won the prize.

    So he gets compared to Jerry Sandusky. Nice.

    Wanna talk about GW or shall we continue to focus on Al and the Koch boys?

    btw, you might enjoy The Truth by Michael Palin about a two faced environmentalist.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    I have a stack of books to read that should last until I am 90. I see the issue much more clearly than making Mann look like the fool that he is. Steyn is a comedian/historian. Very entertaining to read and listen to. Mann suing him to me shows a real lack of wisdom. He brought Climate science down the level of comedy. And his credibiltiy was trashed in the process. I can imagine that Mann considered his part in the IPCC report worthy of a prize. Truth is he was NOT awarded the Nobel Prize.

    As far as GW it is a dead monkey for now. At least until we get past this mini ice age. I will stay with the consensus of credible scientists like Lindzen and Curry. This I can agree with.

    Curry has stated that she is troubled by the "tribal nature" of parts of the climate-science community, and what she sees as stonewalling over the release of data and its analysis for independent review. She has written that climatologists should be more transparent in their dealings with the public and should engage with those skeptical of the scientific consensus on climate change.

    Lindzen says:

    **Based on the weak argument that the current models used by the IPCC couldn't reproduce the warming from about 1978 to 1998 without some forcing, and that the only forcing that they could think of was man. Even this argument assumes that these models adequately deal with natural internal variability—that is, such naturally occurring cycles as El Niño, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, etc.

    Yet articles from major modeling centers acknowledged that the failure of these models to anticipate the absence of warming for the past dozen years was due to the failure of these models to account for this natural internal variability. Thus even the basis for the weak IPCC argument for anthropogenic climate change was shown to be false. **

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127

    Meanwhile Scientists Back Up Climate ‘Hockey Stick’ Graph of Mann's. So they attack him and not the science. (redorbit.com)

    Is Rush still addicted? Does Al Jr. still speed in his Prius? B)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    **However, the findings dispute that notion. One of the analytical methods used in the study shows that temperatures in the Mediaeval Warm Period could have been no higher than they were in about 1980. Another method suggests they were no higher than those seen 100 years ago. **

    Could have been, sounds like maybe possibly. That does not take into account hard evidence that some time in the past 1000 years there was cattle farming on Greenland where there is now is ice.

    In 1991 two Caribou hunters in Greenland stumbled on a Viking farm that had been buried in the permafrost for 500 years.

    http://toryaardvark.com/2009/11/27/climategate-greenland-another-inconvenient-truth/

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127

    They are farming in Greenland again but it doesn't sound like it's all roses. Funny place to have drought concerns. (CNN)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    There you go your article says it all. It was once what it may again become. Opportunity knocks on some doors while others get slammed shut. Learn to adapt.

    Global warming may very well be a threat to humanity, but here in Greenland it seems to be pushing this country back to what it was when it was discovered by the traveler Erik the Red. A lush, green piece of land that could offer good conditions for agriculture.

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited January 13

    Something tells me it didn't take ~400 years for the current arable land to show up. :)

    L'Anse aux Meadows was in the same time period but their "farm" only lasted a few years before they bugged out. Got cold again? (Wiki link)

    Either way, L'Anse would make a great destination for a road trip for your VW.

    Here's another greenhouse gas saver.

    This Audi Can Predict When a Parking Space Will Open Up (Wired)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884

    After living in Minnesota for 3 years I was convinced the Vikings discovered NA long before Columbus. I personally inspected the Runestone and decided it was for real. :) It is in a museum not far from my farm. In the 1970s it was taught in the public schools there. My wife taught in the local grade school.

    Not sure if I would be going that far North. Trying to avoid bad weather as much as possible.

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