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Jeep Liberty Diesel EGR Problems

steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,938
Replaced your EGR? More than once? Talk to Chrysler about it?

If you're not too exhausted thinking about this recirculating issue, talk about it in here. :D

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Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

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Comments

  • I have a 2005 Liberty CRD (diesel). I was very happy with this vehicle,
    Despite seeing all the problems posts on this and other forums until 21000 miles when my CEL light came on. I took it to the shop and had them do the 35K service since it was in. They called me and told me it needed EGR replacement so by the time they got the part in and replaced it my Jeep was in the shop for a week.

    When I picked it up it took 3-5 seconds to start and I should have said something right then but I had plans to be somewhere. Once I got on the highway I noticed that it seemed to shake, hesitate and stutter intermittently at steady cruising speeds. When I got home the dealership had already closed and I called back the next day and made an appointment for the following week. During that week it continued to run rough and died several times on the highway and in town.

    Now it has been in the shop for two days and they are doing diagnostics with no idea what is wrong and no ETA for a fix. When I asked about loaner car they told me that Chrysler does not provide loaner cars unless they are specifically authorized. Well the conversation with Chrysler was frustrating to say the least and I got nowhere.

    The rep would not give me a name of a manager or anyone to write a letter to and would not acknowledge any sort of problem only saying that this repair was covered under warranty and that any decisions of future repairs would be addressed on a case by case basis, unless there was a recall. However she could not help me until the warranty has run out nor authorize a loaner car or rental assistance. Basically she implied that unless there was a recall I was going to be SOL after 36,000 miles.

    I am not naive enough to think that this problem is "recallable" but after I have seen many posts on people having excessive problems and would like to compile a list of people who have this problem to send in writing to Chrysler. My hope is that we can get some kind of credit or a formal extension of the warranty on this item so that we will not be paying for EGR replacement every thousand miles once the basic warranty expires.

    If we could document all of those of you have experienced EGR failures within the warranty period along with VIN perhaps Chrysler would acknowledge this problem.

    THis problem is so public that it is even mentioned in Popular Mechanics Nov 2006 long term review, yet the "customer assistance" staff at Chrysler refuse to acknowledge or do anything. See the summary of PM's long term review at http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4199769.html
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    Did the dealer change your fuel filter? If so make sure it was bled of air properly. To do this, with the engine off pump the hand primer on the fuel filter housing till you feel resistance increase, then turn the silver bleed fitting to bleed off the pressure. Hold a rag at the fitting to catch the discharged fuel. Tighten the fitting and repeat the process until you have a nice stream of fuel with no air. I hope this helps.
  • Thanks - I agree that this could cause the symptoms I am having and it did get changed as part of routine service but one would think that they would know to do that when they changed it. I will call them tommorrow and ask - hopefully they wont be too "smart" with me.

    The latest update is that after conferring with the tech hotline they were told to ask me if I was using Biodisel as that could casue it - (obviously just looking for an excuse as it ran fine when I dropped it off and prior to EGR replacment). It was still on the same tank of gas that it came in with when it started running bad (as soon as I picked it up) and I also refilled it in the 1 week I had it back with diesel from a high volume BP station, so it is vewry unlikely to be a fuel quality problem, but a filter or line with air in it I suppose could caus this problem...but that still doesnt explain the problem Popular Mechanics or many other owners have had.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    ncmountians1: I think I have posted this information 6 times already, so I will state it again. The main reason the EGR goes out it the PCM! Unless the PCM is replaced at the same time the next EGR will go out as well. At Yark Jeep in Toledo, Ohio, right across the street from the Jeep Liberty factory, the CRD tec's name is Dan. Have your dealer call them, Dan has told DCX and they (DCX) knows this, but does not tell the Tec's that the PCM must be replaced when replacing the EGR.
    If I were you I would be rather irate! We are not allowed to post phone numbers on the forum, but I am sure you know how to get a phone number.
    Hope this gets you back to running fine. The problem you have is the main reason that the CRD's have the problems they do....Tec's are ignorant, because of the poor communications between STAR and the Tec.

    Good Luck.

    Farout
  • Thanks they did replace the PCM at the same time - but I suspect the did not program it properly. When I spoke to them on Thursday evening they told me that they had done a bunch of the diagnosis and the EGR was fine but that the
    computer" wasn't recognizing it and they were not successful in being able to program it. Apparently the tech was going to a "Chrysler Diesel performance class" in Charlotte on Friday and was going to take the PCM to the instructor to try and figure out what was wrong and why it wouldn't except the programming. I have not called yet today for a status update.

    At this point my vehicle has been out of service for 16 days (without a loaner or any offer of reimbursement) due to this problem. We are approaching the 20 days for the lemon law to kick in...
  • mdamickmdamick Posts: 277
    I had the CEL come on after having the fuel filter replaced and not enough fuel put in it.
    I could get it to go out by bleeding it for a while but then it came & stayed on.
    Took to dealer and was told that the EGR Flow Control Valve had failed. $520+ install. I said no thanks. They also reprogrammed the PCM & TCM.
    It ran better than ever for a while, but then it was very doggy off the line and would blow clouds of black smoke.
    I finally got my hand up inside and disconnected the EGR valve.
    The CRD comes off the line like any other car and then the turbo kicks in. Very nice to drive now, wish it was like that from day 1.
    I still need to open the dash & pull the CEL lamp out as it is annoying.
    MPG is 23-25+ now.
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Mdamick.... I thought that the egr valve and its components were part of the emission warranty, find out if it is.

    Nescosmo.
  • Well my Jepp is still in the shop. THey have toaled to Chrylers tech line (and also a couple of other dealerships) that have seen these problems. Now they have ordered (and are waiting on some sort of fuel pressure regulator".

    Has anyone else tried to contact CHyrsler Jeep customer service at the 1-800 number posted on the owner area of the Jeep website and asked them if they plan to do anything about this?

    I tried calling again this morning...

    When I asked the questions many different ways (specific and open ended) as to whether Chrysler would do anything for me I got a repeated "You'll have to do that on your own sir" and a refusal to give out any names or let me talk to a supervisor.

    So much for "customer assistance"....
  • zoomy2zoomy2 Posts: 50
    I'm in the club now!! At 29K my engine light came on and I when to the dealer and they said EGR valve failure. This Saturday they are replacing the unit. Service manager said about 1 1/2 hours. This is the second issue with my 2005. The first issue was the transmission filter draining and have to be refilled before it would move. At least its still under warranty. I drive about 25K per year.
  • Well I'm sorry to hear that. Did you ask them what would happen if you had 36,001 miles and what it would cost?

    This is why I am looking for Chrysler to acknoledge the problem and do something for us.

    Make sure the replace the PCM at same time. Hopefully they'll do it right and you won't be out of a vehicle for days or weeks.

    -
  • mdamickmdamick Posts: 277
    At 53000 miles it is not, unfortunately.
    The Emissions warranty covers catalytic converter and powertrain control module.
  • crdfancrdfan Posts: 10
    Just had my 6th EGR valve replacement 3 weeks ago at 29K! DC so far is refusing to buy it back. I just sent out letters to the CEO's of Chrysler, let you know if they respond. :cry:
  • That is just insane!

    What kind of excuses have you recieved as to the problem? how many days has it been out of service and did they provide a lonaer each time?

    Please let us know.

    Thanks!

    P.S. Mine has been in for 17 days now on a single problem, in additon to 5 days the first time.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    crdfan: I read you note with amazement. Our CRD at 24,500 miles is getting the EGR replaced tommrow. I am having the Dodge dealer do the work, as my normal Jeep dealer said on the phone that the malfunction light on was NOT the EGR valve. I could not trust that and went to the Dodge dealer whom I have known from 2002. They tested it and said a circuit was the cause, and I was ok to drive it until the EGR came in. Most others I hav4e heard of have had to wait a week or better for the EGR valve. Not only that but they were told there was a back order on the EGR's. Well this Dodge dealer said ther was 17 EGR's valves in St. Louis, MO, and the part would be hers in 36 hours. So we have it put in tommrow.
    I had thePCM replaced at 18,000 miles I think. The Tec said not to use ANY additives such as PS Cetane booster, and to stay with the Mobile 1 0-40w. For the last 7,500 miles I have used Shell Rotella T 5-40w, and the last 4 tanks of fuel I used the PS Cetane booster. It just is not worth the inconvience. That and not to use anything higher than B-5.
    I wonder if you have followed the Lemon Laws guide that came with your Owners Manual? The procedure is very specfic, and it does work. But if you have more than 15,000 miles on the CRD it might make it very hard to make it work, as you are charged so much a mile for what you have used. I think your selling dealer would help you out to some extent as they just might well help you into a different vehicle.
    About 2 months ago New2diesel got his bought by another dealer,but because the dealer could not get the CRD to run right the buying dealer had to get involved too. Somehow New2diesel, got $15,000. US for his jeep, and that's not good at all.
    What kind of fuel, oil, have you used? How many miles do you have on your CRD?
    Ther has to be something you can do if you really have had 6 EGR's replaced. Something just is not right. Are you sure they really changed the EGR out? Did you see it done?
    I feel sorry for you, and hope you are able to get the help you need. Have you called the Better Business Bureau, that is an option against the selling dealer.

    Farout
  • crdfancrdfan Posts: 10
    I had to have a lawyer do the process on the lemon law going on 1 year. The dealership and the DC area rep said they couldnt help. This is by the way my 8th Chrysler car I have owned in the past 10 years. I have been told DC does not want to admit to anything and they try to wait you out. I have had all my services done at the dealership and on time. Now I am having problems with the transmission going from reverse to drive, the engine will occassionally cut off. I have waited almost 3 weeks for an EGR valve before. So far I have had it in the shop for over 30 days total and the last EGR valve did come in the next day, so they must be stocking up on them.
  • 06 CRD down for 21 days. Dealer or chrysler would not help w/ rental even though I had 100k extended warranty. Now EGR bad and 800 dollar repair. DO not buy one of these vehicles. Chrysler does not have this diesel fiqured out yet. I'm sick and tell everyone I can not to buy one of these.
  • CRDFAN,

    At what point did you contact a lawyer(how long ago) and what is he telling you?

    Under NC lemon law if a vechicle is out of service for a problem for more than 20 days it should be bought back. Mine has been out for 30 days total now (latest update from Chrysler (on Friday) is that they are going to replace fuel injectors and the dealership is waiting on parts. I am planning on sending a registered letter today requesting buyback as at this point it seems they have no idea what is wrong and are just continuing to throw parts at it, while I am without my vehicle.
  • What happened - this forum is about as quiet as the buyback department at Chrylser - havent heard anything from them since I mailed my buyback request (signature required) over a week ago. They cant seem to find the K.May that signed for it.

    Meanwhile the dealership has now also drained the fuel tank, replaced fuel injectors with no sucess - latest is they are waiting on a cam sensor? Still not fixed - that's over a month in the shop straight...while supposedly following all the advice of the CHryler experts on the tech line...

    Anyone had any more problems or any success on a buyback?

    CRDFAN - any success on your buback?
  • jottijotti Posts: 2
    New here & Need advice. Have 2005 Liberty CRD with same story: First engine code for EGR with <500miles on vehicle - service found nothing, cleared code. Engine code very next day, found service bulletin, replaced EGR. Code again, replaced EGR again. At 6 months, stalled/sputtered/rattled/black smoke during acceleration onto freeway - turned off/on & was ok - no code & service found nothing. At one year, stalled/sputtered/rattled/black smoke again during acceleration onto freeway. Turn off/on same symtoms, continued to drive home (late at night), finally engine light came on. Towed to dealer, found same EGR code, turbo air hose blown off, oil in air filter. Service cleared code, replaced air filter and reconnected air hose. Yesterday it stalled out AGAIN during acceleration onto freeway, no engine code this time. Towed vehicle to service, found nothing. Let Service know that I have absolutely no confidence in this vehicle because it is extremely unsafe... max speed of vehicle was 40-50mph in 65mph zone! Was then asked what resolution I was seeking. I told them that I want to KNOW that this vehicle will NEVER stall out again.... was immediately taken to customer relations and informed that I should initiate "arbitration" for a customer buyout by Chrysler and they gave me a number to call.... they also told me that success in my request for a buyout would be highly unlikely.

    Have researched CRD problems most of today, found the Popular Mechanics article and faxed it to the service dept... was told that they received the fax but that they were not aware of any problems and did not have access to the internet. (They also report having no other customers with this same problem... I'm "the only one!" As of now, they have found absolutely nothing wrong with the vehicle and continue "in the process of diagnosing the problem."

    Advice/comments would be helpful. Am contemplating NC Lemon Law, but understand that I need them to try fixing "the same problem" 3 times and fail all three times before I can officially file?
  • Jotti - where in N. Carolina are you? What dealership are you using? I dont' know how many days yors has been in the shop but I would reccomend that you send off a certified letter with a signature required ASAP as per the procedure in your owners manual.

    "Customer ASSistance" offer no assistance at all and I have found that unless you find a Chrysler executive willing to talk to you you will not have any success. At least if the letter is on file you should have recourse if it occurs again and is not fixed in a timely manner. I have found that "Customer ASSistance" will not release or acknowledge your phone or web reports.

    Even my internal contact at Chrysler is having problems with the buyback department not returning her internal calls.
  • jottijotti Posts: 2
    Dealership is MorganJeepDodge in Durham, NC. This most recent problem occurred yesterday, vehicle towed to dealership last night, so today is day 1... that is, for this most recent event. I don't care to risk another...

    Thanks for the info re writing an official letter. My owner's manual is still in the liberty; I'll go by and pick it up tomorrow for more info. Just curious, and sorry if this is a stupid question, but customer assistance would acknowledge their own service records/reports, wouldn't they??

    You mention an internal contact at DCX, is there not an official means of contacting someone?? Cartalk recommends contacting "the big enchilada" and lists chairman Dieter Zetsche as THE DC contact.... found this info today during my massive search for more info on this. will look more tomorrow...

    thanks!
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    You have to have your Jeep bag and follow the LEMON LAW guide book for your state anf follow that EXACTALLY. At best it will more than 3 weeks, I would think.

    Farout
  • Jotti,

    Chrysler would have to acknowledge written service order from your dealer (how could they deny that) that you have copies of BUT (and I was shocked to see how bad they are) when I called the 1-800 number they publish they would not release the record of my calls or web emails to the customer assistance center, and their responses to me once I decided to ask for some kind of compensation for my car being in the shop twice for over a week on warranty issues.

    The official means of contacting does not give out a name and despite my repeated requests to the Customer ASSisstance line reps I got repetive ASSinine replies like "You'll have to do that on your own sir" (they must have a script).

    They would not let me speak to a supervisor, give out any names or even tell me what I found in the owners manual. Even when I asked for the VP of customer assistance's name they would not tell me. Obviously a culture of don't accept any personal responsibility for keeping the customer happy and never give out a name that belongs to a real person who could actually be contacted again and pestered, or be held accountable for an answer or committment.

    Bascially the attitude I got was too bad for you - its your problem not ours.

    Dealership support from Mountain Chrysler Jeep in Forest City, NC was also NON EXISTENT. The service department told me that told me that they did not have any contacts or influence at Chrysler and when I called the salesperson that I had bought the vehicle from she just transferred me back to the service department. Emails to the General Manager of the dealership and to the owner were not responded to. If I ever buy another Chrsyler product it will definetly not be at that dealership.

    Having dealt with European and Japanese manufacturers dealers for my other vehcicles I was always offered a loaner for any warranty repairs. They offered NOTHING and told me it was up to Chrysler and for me to contact them.

    BTW if you dont have the manual because the Jeep is in the shop they are available on the JEEP website. That's where I had to go since I wasnt going to drive 30 miles to the dealership just to get the address.

    GOOD NEWS UPDATE - I received a phone call today confirming that they are going to do a buyback although I dont have the terms yet, the next closest dealership also confirmed to me that they recieved paperwork today and I can come out an pick out a new vehicle. Teere was no way I was going to buy again from Mountain Jeep Chrsler in Forest City since they offered me no support in my dealings with Chrysler. I am hoping a Cummins will be more reliable (looking at a RAM 2500 although I might just test that new Wrangler 4 door).
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    mcmountains: You just might want to look at the rebate scheduel aon the Jeep web site. There are several with $4,000. and some with $4,500. and if you are a Vet or active service member you get $500. more. I would caution you what ever they offer, see if they might give you something for your inconvience. Like an extended warranty oe free service for a year. It never hurts to ask. I have a feeling with the recent TC recall this just may bring a few more buy backs in the near furture.

    Farout
  • crdfancrdfan Posts: 10
    I am finally in the process of a buy back. My lawyers didnt have anything to do with it, I finally contacted DC myself with letters to the CEO and CFO, someone listened. I am waiting on the offer now that I have sent in the info they requested.
  • I encourage (and wish luck to) everyone contacting Chrysler TRYING to get a buy back. After 40+ problems and several weeks in the shop for various problems I filed a CA lemon law complaint re my then new 1997 Dodge Diesel truck. The case was "dismissed" after some German guy from Daimler Chrysler contacted the hearing board right before the hearing date and told them everything had been resolved. This guy had never spoken to me, the problems had not been resolved and no one from D-C even contacted me. When I protested the unilateral dismissal I was told I could re-file but the board was not sympathetic.
  • I hope that dealer is providing you with a loaner vehicle. My Liberty puked the torque convertor and had to have the whole trans flushed and all the lines and trans cooler replaced. They had it for about six days and I was given a vehicle the whole time. My 2005 as a diesel was eligible for a two year, vehicle loan agreement as part of the purchase. If you didn't get one, ask your salesperson why not.
    Sounds to me as if your dealer has not properly diagnosed the problem. Ask them to show you the results of the diagnostic tester. Mine threw ghost codes on the instrument panel light and finally they figured out it needed the NEW egr valve that has a different coating on it and that seems to keep it from sticking. There is new software that should be installed as well and mine has been troublfree ever since. On the interstate if I stay at or below 72mph I can see the overhead show 27-29mpg depending on the wind.
  • The dealership (Mountain Chrysler Jeep Dodge) refused to give me a loaner saying it was up to Chrysler. After many calls to Chrysler (and over the first week out of service) Chrysler agreed to provide me a lonaer which I picked up at the dealership. I dorve the lopaner - a base ford tuarus) for a month and a half until my buyback was completed the day after Christmas.

    I dont know what they are doing with my Jeep but it is a shame as I loved the vehicle until the problems started. Also for what I lost in depreciation in the buyback I could have been driving a Porsche for the last year. I had planned on keeping this vehicle for a long time but am now gald to be rid of my problems. My new Prius gets much better gas mileage (47.8 in first 1000 miles) and I will use my old F-250 for the rare times I need to tow.

    Best of luck to all of you here with your problems and dealings with Chrysler.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    My 2005 CRD Limited is just south of 15K miles and is running quite nicely. I have had a few repairs including (recently) the EGR valve. All repairs have been done in a timely manner and I have not needed to go back for remedial work for any repair/recall. The repairs include a software update (682 miles), ruptured hose between the turbo and aftercooler (about 5.2K miles)and the EGR replacement (14.3K miles), plus two recalls, ball joint and F37. Total time in the repair shop for all of these, about six days.

    A big part of why people are having issues with their CRD's is that the dealership service department is so poor and that the dealership management does not care. That is where most of the problems lie. The CRD is a solid little SUV and for those of you who have had unresolved issues that is truly sad.

    As to the EGR failure, domestic LSD fuel was the culprit. The CRD's engine and emissions systems were designed to run on EU quality diesel which is S30 or better and with a cetane rating of 51 or better. Domestic fuel has a cetane rating in the low 40's and that also contributes to problems. In a small way, I can blame Daimler-Chrysler for not doing more extensive testing of the CRD emissions components using our rotten domestic diesel fuel.

    This little SUV has a pretty good reputation in Europe and the engine maker, V.M. Motori also has a very good reputation. That reputation is being stained by American laziness and greed.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    winter2: I am not sure the issues are because of "American laziness and greed". You know that some of these CRD owners have done everything according to DCX and still have the same issues. I FEEL DCX USED UNSUSPECTING CUSTOMERS TO PURCHASE THESE "TEST MARKET VEHICLES". There was not even the slihtest hint that these vehicles were just a test to see how us Americans would buy diesels.

    farout
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