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Jeep Liberty Diesel EGR Problems

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Comments

  • turbodudeturbodude Posts: 8
    Yes the boots from factory fall off. I plan to replace hers with silicone like I have on my truck, and I push 55=60psi. My boots now have over 100,000 miles on them
  • iee1mkiee1mk Posts: 3
    My 05 CRD recently started puffing black smoke on acceleration. About a week before that started happening, the CEL came on and has been lit ever since. I did the ignition cycle and no codes displayed; then went to AutoZone where they tested with a code reader, and again no codes. Reading some of the posts, I tried a hard acceleration, foot to the floor to 90 mph leaving a trail of smoke behind me, and tried running at a little above 2,500 rpm for several miles. Neither helped the smoke issue. I cleaned the MAP, and again no change. Then I unplugged the MAF for a day, and no more smoke. Plugged the MAF back in and the smoke returned. Otherwise, it is running like a top. Just went on a short road trip this week of about 300 miles and averaged 29.4 mpg. Any suggestions?
  • Dear Black Smoke ;)

    I guess you should check the vacuum solenoid valve to see if it burned out.
    It is located on the passenger side back of the engine compartment and has small and medium vacuum hoses connected to it as well and a two terminal control wire. I you were to unplug the valve and test it (across the plug prongs in the wire socket, not the wire) with an ohm meter, the switch should read 29 - 30 ohms. If you get 0 Ohms it is burn't out.

    The significance of this valve is that it controls the wastegate of the turbo. If it is burn't out you get almost no boost from the turbo (which can cause black smoke and loss of power).

    The next most common cause of the smoke is the hose being split from the turbo to the inter-cooler or the other hose split from the inter-cooler to the intake. Check them or have them checked (generous amounts of oily soot if broken). These hoses are ~$50 each. Depends how where you buy them. Should be replaced with OEM parts or reinforced hose composed of silacone.

    Finally, black smoke can be caused by a stuck EGR vale. This can be un-stuck by dis-connecting the wire from the MAF sensor (located on top of the air cleaner / air filter box ). Pull/sideout the red tab and jiggle plug left/right while pulling straight out. Drive vehicle after warm for about ten to fifteen miles with some accelerations. If smoke goes away then it is a bad/stuck EGR valve. This is the cheapest fix (un-plugging) but it does turn on a CEL and DTC. If this is the problem, a SERG device (simulated E G R device) can be found on Internet sites. Purchase one SEGR and install it. It replaces the signals generated by the EGR valve and leave the EGR Valve in the open (non functioning position) which actually does no harm to the engine or emissions (!@#$ the EPA). SEGR is about $249 and replacing an EGR Valve is about $750 with labor.

    Some people have replace EGR Valve several times because of horrible fuel or the crankcase being over filled with cheap oil. Crud migrates to the EGR Valve. Leaving the EGR Value open and letting crud burn in the catalytic converter does work very well.

    Luck with the findings/fixes ;)
  • iee1mkiee1mk Posts: 3
    edited November 2011
    Sorry it took so long to get back to you. One of the booster hoses was very sooty and oily, so I replaced both with silicone hoses. That didn't help, so I finally took it to my dealer. They replaced the EGR valve and that took care of the problem. However, I did try to running without the MAF sensor before taking it in and it continued to blow black smoke. So when they said it needed an EGR valve I was a bit leery, but as usual they were right. Although I live in a city, I take it back to the small town dealer where I bought it. They sell and service a lot of diesel trucks to farmers and such, so they understand the CRDs and have so far been 100% correct on every recommendation.

    Thanks much for your help.
  • Back about entry #110, I noted that the yellow light comes on indicating a bad EGR valve. It's been fairly warm so far this Winter Season. We had one patch of cold weather. At that time i had to let the Jeep sit overnight in the cold. It started OK, but sure enough - there was the yellow light. I didn't get to checking it for a few days. In that time, the weather had warmed up. I looked down and the yellow light was out.

    Below zero weather may "fool" the computer into thinking it has a bad EGR valve. I expect I'll get it a few more times before the Winter is out.

    Happy New Year! :)
  • A year has almost rolled by. I've been plugging my Jeep in every night and not getting the P0401 code for the EGR solenoid valve. I was visiting family for Thanksgiving a few days ago. My Jeep was not plugged in. Sure enough, the yellow check engine light is there and I'm quite sure I'll see the P0401 code when I plug in the computer. I found a fairly good explanation as to how this thing works on the Lost Jeep forum. Hopefully, I can figure out how to disable it without the yellow light being on. The Jeep is now out of warranty since it is over 7 years and 70,000 miles since I bought it. Brief reading on the Lost Jeep forum says that current is sensed to the solenoid. Maybe, it's simple enough to fool the computer with a resistor, but probably not. If anyone knows please let me know. I check here from time to time,.......AND,.......if I find out an explanation of what to do shall be written in clear English.
    :confuse: :D
  • I have a P0401 - EGR valcve, P01250 - a solenoid valve and P0299, loss of power. I checked the solenoid valve with an ohmmeter. It is fine. I've had it with the EGR when my finances improve, I am dumping this vehicle. It was poorly designed. I've kept this lemon since 2005. Time to dump her. :lemon:
  • All i did was unplug sensor which turns
    It on and off on air cleaner horn
    This disables it
    I also took breather from
    Top of sir cleaner that feeds turbo do it gets
    Nice dirty oil!
    I ran to the ground
    Mpg up 2+
  • Disabling the temperature sensor on the air cleaner may defeat the EGR, but does the check engine light still come on when you do this. I guess it's easy enough to try.

    "I also took breather from
    Top of sir cleaner that feeds turbo do it gets
    Nice dirty oil!"

    This was written like a real mechanic. I'll need to study the turbo hosing to fully understand this statement. I'm not sure if "turbo do" is an acronym for something or if something is to to be done, i.e. "do"
  • Yes check engine light will be on
    You can either put a piece of tape if it bothers
    You or send wcmmout for reprogram
    I used to be a mechanic and own several
    Diesels
    I ran hose all the way down and curved
    Towards ground
    Just replaced old ceramic GLO plugs
    With new style metal
  • I had to have the glow plugs replaced too. I should reroute the hose to reroute the gunk.

    It's a dumb design when you have to modify the car not for performance enhancement, but just so that it runs right.
  • Yes it's forbemmission
    If they don't test the car in your area
    You can do things to get near 30+mpg
    But trans needs modification
    I have broken more than once!!
  • I got close to 30 mpg when the vehicle was newer. If I don't dump the thing, I may explore some of those options. I basically just want a vehicle easy to take care of that I don't have to mess with much.

    However, I kept the last one 12 years and it is expensive to change vehicles. I don't need much just something to haul a trailer, get me from point A to point B, is reliable and cheap to operate.
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Posts: 104
    It got warm yesterday (low 30s). I removed my MAP sensor. Gosh what a lot of crud. I now understand the "nose blowing." It blows the crud out. This crud comes from the EGR. The EGR is a crud recycler. What's that crud do to my engine? No wonder the oil is so dirty. What a stupid design!

    I couldn't get the sensor off earlier when it was colder. It seemed to be stuck. Dumb place buried under that miniature wireway. For an item that needs to be cleaned regularly, the location is not well engineered.

    Post after post tells me to unplug my MAF sensor on the sir cleaner. This is supposed to disable the EGR. I have been getting the yellow light this Winter anyway so I unplugged it. I'm going to drive her like this for a while.

    I'll probably be dumping this little Jeep soon, but if I don't Green Diesel will be getting a new customer. I wish I would have understood how counterproductive this EGR was a few thousand miles back. I've probably already knocked many thousands of miles from the engine life.

    Those of us who are not car people get punished in strange obscene ways. This EGR thing is one of them. :lemon:
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Posts: 104
    As noted immediately above, I removed the connector to the MAF. I received all the yellow lite codes as before with one change. Instead of P0401, EGR valve I now get P1102 which upon looking for on the web I found MAF flow. This makes sense since it is unplugged. The car drove about the same. It may have been a tad more zippy, but that may have been my imagination.

    I think it is an improvement not to have crud injection. :confuse:
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,800
    That little sensor if not properly maintained can cause a ton of headaches. When I had my CRD, I cleaned it every 5000 miles using a mild solvent to remove the accumulated goo. The engine actually ran better after the cleaning plus it saved the hoses from being over pressured. The other thing to clean, if you have not done so, is the MAF sensor. Two screws and out it comes. Use a cleaner specifically for MAF sensors. Do not use anything else. I cleaned the MAF sensor on my CRD a couple of times and the performance improvement was noticeable. I also used a K&N air filter and that did not give me any problems.

    The issue with the EGR is where it gets the exhaust gas. Unfortunately, the CRD did not have a DPF. If it had had one tand if the engineers were smart, then they would have pulled the exhaust gases for EGR after the DPF thus eliminating the soot contamination issue altogether.
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Posts: 104
    I cleaned the MAP with PB Blaster and a sewing needle. It worked.

    I had my MAF sensor out previously. I think it is just an array of RTDs. It is unplugged now. I checked my boost solenoid valve with an ohm meter. It showed open. I had voltage on the wiring to the solenoid when I turned the key on so this sure looks like the cause for my P0299 and P1250 CEL codes. This matches what I've read on the LOST forum. I thought I had checked this previously and had the proper resistance, but it was below zero in the garage when I did the check and may not have read my meter properly.

    P0299 - low turbo boost

    P1250 - boost solenoid valve bad.

    The LOST website has directions as to how to bypass this solenoid valve or I can just drive it until I get another.

    When it warms up a bit more, I guess I will be looking at changing the EGR valve since it has only been changed once and is probably crudded up. Then I may do the GDR if I don't dump the little diesel. It's such an odd beast in the USA that it may not pay to hang on to it.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,800
    I had the EGR changed once when the F37 recall was going on. Never had a problem with the replacement. I was told the new EGR valve was modified to be more tolerant of soot and crud. Still did the "nose blowing".

    I never ran the CRD with anything disconnected, I just kept the sensors that I could get to squeaky clean. The tech at the dealer where I purchased the CRD passed on this information to me at regular intervals.

    The CRD was an odd beast. I do not think that the engineers did a good job of thinking everything through nor did they do adequate testing. Had things been thoroughly thought through and thoroughly tested, the Liberty CRD would have been a good vehicle.
  • What was the F37 recall?

    what year is your CRD and when was the recall ?
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Posts: 104
    WInter2 - Thanks for your support.

    I got the text from LOST. I probably had this done too:

    Here is the text:

    CUSTOMER SATISFACTION NOTIFICATION F37
    REPLACE TORQUE CONVERTER AND REPROGRAM THE ECM AND TCM
    Dear: (Name)
    Customer satisfaction is very important to DaimlerChrysler. Accordingly, we are recommending the following service on some 2005 and 2006 model year Jeep® Liberty vehicles equipped with a 2.8l diesel engine and an automatic transmission.
    The problem is...
    The transmission torque converter on your vehicle (VIN: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) may fail. This can cause a rattling sound in the neutral or park positions and/or illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Lamp. Continued operation can result in transmission damage.
    What your dealer will do...
    DaimlerChrysler will repair your vehicle free of charge (parts and labor). To do this, your dealer will replace the torque converter and reprogram the engine and transmission control modules. The repair involves a small reduction in engine torque to enhance torque converter and transmission durability. The work will take about 5½ hours to complete. If testing indicates the transmission has been damaged, another hour will be required. However, additional time may be necessary depending on how dealer appointments are scheduled and processed.
    What you must do...
    Simply contact your dealer right away to schedule a service appointment. Ask the dealer to hold the part for your vehicle or to order it before your appointment. Remember to bring this letter with you to your dealer.
    If you need help...
    If you have questions or concerns which your dealer is unable to resolve, please contact DaimlerChrysler at 1-800-853-1403.
    Please help us update our records, by filling out the attached prepaid postcard, if any of the conditions listed on the card apply to you or your vehicle.
    If you have already experienced this problem and have paid to have it repaired, you may send your original receipts and/or other adequate proof of payment to the following address for reimbursement: DaimlerChrysler P.O. Box 4639 Oak Ridge, TN 37831, Attention: Reimbursement.
    We're sorry for any inconvenience, but we believe that this service will help to ensure your continuing satisfaction with your vehicle. Thank you for your attention to this important matter.
    Customer Services Field Operations
    DaimlerChrysler Corporation
    Notification Code F37

    It kinda agrees with Winter's statement that they didn't get the bugs out of this vehicle before putting it on the market.

    I'm going to see about getting a replacement solenoid valve today. I'll have to bring it in to the dealer to show them the part, or I'll get the deer in the headlights look from them. It will take me 15 minutes to replace and should fix P0299 and P1250. Note: I have the manual for the KJ. I found no mention of this solenoid valve in there. I think it was an afterthought by the engineers.
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Posts: 104
    I went to the dealer to get a new solenoid valve. I unplugged it to bring it in with me to assure I had the right part. Oddly enough, it was warm. Hmmmm, that told me. It must have had current through it. I plugged her back in and plugged in my MAF. I started up the Jeep and the yellow light was out. It's been on every time I've started it for months with P0401, P0299 and P1250. Well, it may be intermittent. I still have the tubing bypassing it. The car sounds different and is more zippy. My turbocharger is back.

    I've had a run of really bad luck lately. Maybe, this is a sign that things will be better.

    Spring is here and times are good.
  • I have a 2005 Liberty CRD and would like to get more info on service and repair. I defintely need to do what these post are talking about but would like some drawings and etc.
  • A good investment is the factory
    Service manual
    Keep up with regular maintenance
    As it is critical
    IE: fuel filter, oil and filter etc
    Mine is running strong at 140,000
    Miles it's my wife's car
    I have a 2002 Dodge Cummins which
    Is highly modified
    Rick
  • 12m3412m34 Posts: 2
    Last year around this time, my 06 Diesel tranny completely trashed, plenum and all, my dealership made several consessions and replaced it all for $2,700, more that half the realistic cost. But, this was right at 101,000miles. This F37 code never came on, had trans serviced regular but D/C would not cover, said Im on my own. Maybe now should send in dealer repair order for total reimbursment?
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,800
    The F37 is not a code but a recall. Chrysler should have sent you a recall notice.
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Posts: 104
    See post #145 for details of F37. (I don't think it has anything to do with an EGR valve.) :surprise:
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,800
    The F37 recall dealt with detuning (mostly torque reduction) the engine and replacing the torque converter and the front pump in the transmission. The EGR valve is a separate issue.
  • I blew my transmission up out of warranty
    Engines are detuned as trans can't handle
    Torque
    ATS makes a multi disk converter and better
    Clutches etc so you can put engine where
    It belongs. The shop that built my truck
    Trans charged me $1500.00 for my wife's
    CRD including a better torque converter
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Posts: 104
    This EGR thing is to reduce Nitrous Oxide. This is from Wikepedia:

    "By feeding the lower oxygen exhaust gas into the intake, diesel EGR systems lower combustion temperature, reducing emissions of NOx. This makes combustion less efficient, compromising economy and power. The normally "dry" intake system of a diesel engine is now subject to fouling from soot, unburned fuel and oil in the EGR bleed, which has little effect on airflow but can cause problems with components such as swirl flaps, where fitted. Diesel EGR also increases soot production, though this was masked in the US by the simultaneous introduction of diesel particulate filters.[6] EGR systems can also add abrasive contaminants and increase engine oil acidity, which in turn can reduce engine longevity.[7]

    Though engine manufacturers have refused to release details of the effect of EGR on fuel economy, the EPA regulations of 2002 that led to the introduction of cooled EGR were associated with a 3% drop in engine efficiency, bucking a trend of a .5% a year increase."[8]


    The new Chevy Cruze diesel has a urea tank. This is from the dieselhub site.

    "Urea or DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) injection is a key component of the SCR (selective catalyst reduction) emissions system for the 6.7L Power Stroke & 6.6L Duramax. SCR is one way that manufacturers are combating diesel emissions in order to meet/exceed current regulations. SCR is a system that reduces NOx (nitrous oxide) emissions by injecting diesel exhaust fluid into the exhaust stream. DEF, also referred to as "reductant", is a solution of 32.5% urea and 67.5% water. Its moderate urea content is where it gets the slang term "urea injection". DEF is injected via a dosing module (injector) into the SCR portion of the exhaust. It is atomized with the exhaust stream by means of a mixer, which resembles an auger welded inside a small section of exhaust pipe. The heat of the exhaust causes urea to split into carbon dioxide and ammonia. Exhaust then travels through a ceramic catalyst where the reduction reaction occurs, converting ammonia and NOx into nitrogen gas (N2) and water" (H2O).

    Is the urea thing a better way to go than the EGR? It seems like it would be better for your engine. It also seems like it would be a pain to have to fill a urea tank as well as a fuel tank. There would be extra cost for this consumable item. If this is required in future diesels, this could be a big drawback. :lemon:
  • Well, I didn't get the green diesel tune or the electronic gadget that fools the engine into thinking the EGR is happy while continuously closed. I did get a little orange reader that allows me to pull off the side of the road and reset the yellow light whenever it comes on. I get some satisfaction from turning the durn thing off. The Jeep has over 100,000 miles on it now.

    I'm still looking for that magic bullet to fix the EGR.
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