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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L News, Views and Opinions

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  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,257
    One of the guys I play tennis with changed his mind and decided to go with the S550. He was going to go with the LS460L. He previously owned an S500. BTW, he had this vehicle in the shop rather frequently. Of course he brought up the recent C & D comparison where the LS460L came in last place among the 5 luxury cars tested. In particular, he mentioned the breaking distance from 70 to 0 as pretty awful. I tried to tell him that this was a pre-production model but he does not believe me. He picked up the C & D magazine and read the review and he claims that it does not say it is a pre-production model.

    Here is where ljflx can be of help. lj, about 10 days ago you stated that this C & D comparison is a joke and I agree with you. You also said that you really had to look hard but in a subtle message the C & D revealed that the LS460L was indeed a pre-production model. I read the article through a link this past hour, but I cannot find this subtle statement. Where exactly is it located? I did see that the test was done on August 29 with a stated curb weight of 4700 pounds. How can this not be a pre-production model?

    After some thought, I have come to the conclusion that the real reason my tennis buddy decided to go with the S550 was for prestige. In his mind, he will look like more of a "big shot" with the S550. After all the trouble he had with his S500, I am very surprised he went to the "dark side" ;-).

    Merry Christmas and a Happy, healthy New Year everyone!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Merry Christmas Cyclone and everyone else. Been real busy so I have'nt been reading up much the past week.

    In the exerp below (which comes in the LS review part of the story) here's the only time in that review that you see mention of the car as a pre-production car. If you're not paying close attention you read right past it.

    "The steering mechanism rotates as if on roller bearings (it might well be), and the sound levels are low enough inside that imperfect door seals on our preproduction vehicle produced wind noise that seemed hurricane-like in comparison"

    Now compare that to how they went out of their way to let you know the A8 was a 2006 model right out of the gate before you even get into the A8 part of the review:

    For 2007, the A8 has a new direct-injection 4.2-liter V-8 with 350 horsepower; unfortunately, only a 2006 with the 40-valve, 335-hp V-8 was available for this test. So keep in mind that the specification, performance, and pricing information are for the 2006 A8L. Expect the ’07 car to be a smidge quicker and cost about $1000 more.

    Now shouldn't the quid pro quo (if you are reporting objectively) have been to state that "unfortunately, the LS 460L we tested was a preproduction model etc" and for that to have been made crystal clear in the article upfront. When I see bias like that I dismiss the whole report on the LS immediately whether it's pro or con. Of course it had no chance to be pro and that's why they made the notation of preproduction as hidden as they could.

    Here's the whole story:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12081/2006-jaguar-super-v-8-vs-2007-merc- - - edes-benz-s550-vs-2006-audi-a8l-quattro-vs-2007-lexus-ls460l-vs-2006-bmw-750li.h- - - tml

    BTW - I mentioned this review to a high source at my dealership. His response - which may be predjudiced or may be accurate - is that many auto reviewers are not happy that Lexus is selling $80-100K cars. As well the expected rollout of the L650 and the sportscar - which will be priced at $150K and the pre-orders of the LS600HL at over $100K are making it even worse. Most thought that when LS prices bumped against S550 prices and leapfrogged 7-series prices LS sales would falter. Instead people are bypassing the reviews and lining uo for the cars. As a poster pointed out earlier the car is difficult to even test drive because it is snapped up so quickly. I've heard a few reports about the LS460L going $5K or more over list now.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I've driven the 460, and it won't feel that much different to you, and unless you get the L, it won't park itself either. The seating feels the same. It drives smoother, quieter, and easier than the 430. I'm with you, power isn't an issue, my 430 has plenty, but once you get inside, you'll be greeted with a nicer array of instrumentation. Similar to what you have, but better and more attractive.

    I say, you can afford it, get one and boost the economy a bit. You won't be sorry, and you'll enjoy the car tremendously. I'm going to, but my current model is an 05, and I'm waiting probably another year or so.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,257
    Thanks again lj! I wonder how many others actually saw this word (preproduction) as they read the article. I certainly missed it. I am not even sure that people on the HELC board saw this with their own eyes. This is so incredibly sneaky on the part of C & D. It will be a real pleasure to point this out to my tennis buddy. I can't wait to see his explanation now.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    It's why the C&D report on the LS is a joke. I've been in the publishing industry and know many editors. You only write like that if your intentions are NOT to be objective. I've driven the S550 and the LS460L several times. They are very much alike.

    OK - I've got to get back to Christmas before my wife and kids kill me.
  • tricky73tricky73 Posts: 132
    OK, there have been a few comments posted that have helped crystallize my thinking. A casual read of reviews and comments would have one believe the 460 is a revolutionary design product. I think this is what has bothered me all along.

    The 460 is not revolutionary at all; rather it should be viewed as a refined, heavier, smaller inside (SWB), and restyled version of the 4XX product line. For those of us who own/drive an earlier version of this series have long learned to appreciate the many wonderful attributes of the vehicle, and coupled with an examplary reliability history there is little reason to change except for emotional considerations. The changes being hyped probably are not cost effective if one is currently driving a late model 4XX. Thanks guys.

    BTW, I think the 9-spoke wheels of the 460 are dopey...anybody else bothered by this detail?


    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    I think your analysis is a good one. I'm trying to rationalize trading my '05 LS for the new LS, but it's not going to be a rational decision if I decide to get one. As far as the wheels are concerned, I think the chromed 5 spoke 18s on my LS look better than the new standard wheels. (and the new optional wheels don't look so great, either)
  • tricky73tricky73 Posts: 132
    Keyes Lexus in Van Nuys
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    You have to put it in perspective. In my opinion the 460 is a better car and regardless the new model is going to cost more money. You don’t have to go LWB, it’s not inherently better and it doesn't seem like you need it or want it. Since you have an 06 430 I don’t see what the issue is. You knew the new model was coming, so why are you compelled to squander money on a 1-year trade in? You’re not going to be left in the dust by keeping the 430 and you're not going to win a Nobel Prize by buying the 460. Keep your 430. It’s a good car, it's practically new and most importantly you like it. And if you don't just kiss the money goodbye and don't look back. It’s that simple.
  • dan67dan67 Posts: 51
    Decision:

    I'm Going to keep my nice looking, reliable, 65K 2001 LS 430 for 6-12 more months. During this period I'll decide what options and color I want for the 460. Dealers will start to deal and all (any) glitches will be fixed. My 430 won't depreciate much more. I'll see the new variations including AWD and the hybrid if they come out.

    Besides the other pluses I'll save about $1200 A MONTH by waiting just this short period.

    My ego won't be too bruised as my brain wins this little battle. Input here from all of you was helpful. :)
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,257
    This is precisely what I am doing with my 2004 LS430. I am waiting to see what the LS600hL has to offer in the Spring. If the trunk capacity on the 600 is as small as the current thinking, then I will wait until the LS460L comes in AWD.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Very wise decision IMO. Good strategy, financially as well as practically.

    I'm keeping my 05 for a couple more years myself - until it starts to look worn anyway, it is exactly what I want in a car.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    Emotionally, the S550 is more attractive to me than the LS460, but then things happen that draw me back to Lexus. A case in point: this morning I was at an MB dealer and I sat in an S550 for the first time. I asked the salesman how you adjusted the lumbar support. He hadn't a clue (and he'd been working there for a year.) He asked a salesman who had been there for 20 years, and was told that you adjust the lumbar support through the COMAND system. Isn't this just totally ridiculous?!
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,257
    Does anyone know where oak has been the past month or two? I miss his comments.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Emotionally, the S550 is more attractive to me than the LS460,

    Oh, me too, absolutely!! Everything about the S-550 is more appealing to me. The size of the steering wheel, the seats, the power, the drive and the looks. However, COMAND is a nightmare, always has been. Every time I test drive an S-Class, there are numerous things wrong with it that "I can bring it back to service to fix at my convenience" if I buy it. It's a ton more money than the Lexus, and it would be worth it, if it gave me the same type of reliability as the Lexus does, but it doesn't even come close. And lastly, you're exactly right, the sales people don't get it. I go in in my suit, driving my Lexus, not exactly looking destitute. The salesman I'm talking to in the showroom, assigns me to a salesbabe to take me on a "test ride" where I get the "turn right, turn right, turn right" treatment right back to the dealership. Upon arrival, the salesman who was too busy to go with me says, "How do you like it". My reply; Well, I really don't know from 4 right turns in a quarter mile. At Lexus, they tell me to take it home for the weekend and let them know on Monday. So far, I've bought every car I took home.

    MB is arrogant, and so are their people. For the money, value and service, I like the LExus.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    You and I are thinking alike, nv. However, the wife doesn't think like us, and she's been lusting after an SL500/SL550 for a long time, even though she's never been in one. (Actually, I've never been in one either.) I bought an SL550 for her as a surprise gift yesterday, and take delivery on it tomorrow. I hope the ownership experience turns out to be a happy one; I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Her SC430 will be going up for sale soon. It's been a wonderful car for nearly 6 years.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The SL will disappoint in a lot of areas, but not in performance, handling, comfort or noticeability. That, she'll love. You, will hate the service department, and the cost of frequent visits there.... But it's a hellova car.
  • Lots of Lexus and car experience here. Had new 90,95,98 and 01 LS cars. Drove all 100k miles+. Just got my new black, black LWB with touring. Gave up the best car I have ever owned when I sold my Black/Ecru '01 LS ULTRA to my 28 yo son. That was a great car! Dealer offered me $17k. It was worth $30+ to me. I leased that car 3 yrs, extended the lease at end and then bought after 5 yrs because I could not part with it. More options than my 07 L with MSRP of $82,407. Learned that if you wanted the touring pkg, you could not have all the back seat upgrades. I have a my own list of minor details that the 01 Ultra had that the new, not quite loaded car does not have but I will not go into it now. I am slow to adapt and usually dont want change; starting to like the 07. Soon son and I will hit some back road and do our own stopping test with the 01 just to see how the brakes compare. The 01 had fabulous breaking reviews; comparable to Porsce as I recall. I think my 07 stops real well but not certain if it is as good, worse or better. Waited 3 mos for Black, black, touring and got $500 off MSRP. Leased for 3 years/12,000 miles for $1370.59/mo plus AZ sales tax. Did 3 yrs rather than longer in case I get attracted to something else. At 61 the number of new cars I will buy is dwindling.
    Dont know how to make my Mac I pod or Xm satellite work, nor have I started to dig into the 3" thick manual. Still on first tank of gas. Slow learner. I think i will miss the rear AC now that I have a bigger (LWB) car, no side shades, black interior and live in the desert. But I think I will be able to stop better (than the standard car)and the bigger wheels/brakes will be more adaptable to 20" after market wheels if I so decide. That was a trade off I made when I got the touring. I too read the C&D review. They compared a Lexus with dual AC and deducted for smaller trunk which is mandated by the second AC system. Did not use touring car with bigger brakes and deducted for longer stopping distance. Tested a pre production car, not a full production model. Did they plan to sabotage the Lexus? If so, why? Read the report days before I took delivery and could have cancelled and bought a Merc 550 but my 15+ years and nearly 500,000 miles of absolute trouble free ownership gave me pause. My 2003 SL55 has been in the Mercedes shop 2x and both times the experience was totally unsatisfactory. I have much more to say but I have taken up enough space. Merry Christmas, Happpy New Year and best to all. Mike@Tucson.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    I, too, have had wonderful experience with Lexus vehicles and Lexus dealers. I've purchased 6 of them in the last 9 years, and all have been nearly trouble free and the service experience has been outstanding. I'll probably get an LS460 eventually, but I am put off by the fact that, to get all of the features of my '05 Custom Lux LS430, the new one will cost me about $10K more. I am also put off by the fact that I have to look twice to tell the difference between an LS460 and an ES or IS. My favorite story of MB dealer abuse is the time I took my new S500 in for service (to the dealer where I had purchased it) and they gave me a Geo Metro loan car. To add insult to injury, they inspected it very carefully for damage before and after I took it out. Mike, I am also in Tucson. (I should add that the experience I just described was in Dallas, not Tucson; I've had pretty good experience with the Tucson MB dealer.)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Welcome to CarSpace, Mike! Looking forward to hearing about you getting to know your new LS. :)
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