Lexus LS 460/LS 460L News, Views and Opinions

dan67

Here is a C&D June 2007 review. Mostly about the "h" but has several critical comparisons to the standard LS 460L. Just 13 MPG? Like several of you here I'm very skeptical of these reviews:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0feb55?displayRecent

dan67

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/12881/2008-lexus-ls600hl.html

nvbanker

Sorry, Pat...... :surprise:

1branch

Okay, $90K later......
I took the bait after my S500 for 5 years (GREAT car).
The 460 is great looking inside and out. However, the new 8 speed trans takes the fun right out of 380HP. The 'Kick-down' is terribly slow, which makes it dangerous if you need to move quickly in traffic. At 60 MPH, if you stomp on it, it takes a good 2 to 3 seconds to kick down and engage a lower gear. If you stomp when it is in 3rd gear it takes an eternity to kick down, if at all. VERY FRUSTRATING!
What is your experience??

rgsw

The LS430 six speed transmission had similar complaints. I understand there was a service bulliten that allowed the dealer mechanic to reprogram the transmission to make it more responsive. I read in the LS430 forums about several owners who had similar complaints. Maybe Lexus will come up with a similar fix for the eight speed after they discover the problem. Good luck.

ms09

So what ur saying is that the transmission is not really like it should be, by what ur saying that when u need to move quickly it just doesn't accelerate like u want it to be.,

rennybosch

1branch, does your car have an ECT (Electronically Controlled Transmission) switch? On the 430 there is such a switch with a "POWER" setting that helps improve responsiveness.

I hope other 460 owners will comment on this problem.

hendjaz

Yes, use the Power setting for more spirited driving and gearing. I have found no issue with the gearing and my 460L gets up and goes when my right foot tells it to.

I have not used the ECT switch for anything but the Power setting so wonder if there is any material difference in gas mileage by using the normal setting.

ms09

So what ur saying is that ur ls has no transmission problems or power shortage to accelerate?

ljflx

I think it was you but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway I thought you posted that you found the new ES harsh and noisy. I had a loaner today as my GX was in for service and found it real quiet, very smooth riding and with improved handling. IMO the car is more luxury oriented than ever with a great ride, a tad more sport in the handling but still with a big bend to lux instead and nice styling. Maybe you had a bad car?

feverhart

So long LS 600H with the 12cf trunk. Last week Pohanka Lexus delivered to me an Obsidian Black LS460L Touring which had been someone else's special order that suddenly became available. The 18cf trunk suits my purposes. But it came with mixed emotions. I sold the '01 Ultra which was a great car, but kept the '04 LS, which will always be a keeper in our household--the best car I've ever owned.

I find the advantages of the 460 to be in the NAV, Bluetooth, extra roomy backseat leg room, and the fantastic ML sound system. The automatic parking brake is great. I'll prabably never use the self-parking feature. What isn't so great is the increased turning diameter, the lack of quietness compared to the 430, the skinny windows and the cheapy summer tires with a 140 tread wear and A A rating. There are more reasonable all-season tires with a 400 AA A rating available for the 19 inch wheels, which I believe Lexus should have given as an option. The road holding and brakes are great.

I will have to admit, however, that the car I will probably drive the most and which carries the greatest "fun factor" is the RAV4 4WD Limited. Highly manuevable, short turning radius, great road holding ability, and the fantastic acceleration matches my spirited driving tendency. It doesn't come with the NAV, but the Garmin Nuvi 660 even has advantages the Lexus NAV does not poccess, e.g.,in map mode it shows the next intersecting street. Not so Lexus NAV, which only shows the road you're on (heck, I already know that). It can also play thousands of songs down loaded on a SD card into thr Nuvi right through the car speakers via direct hook up. No shoving disks in to record to the HD.

Yes, you put up with more wind noise, no seat memory or garage door buttons, but the 4WD takes you through all types of weather and did I mention the fun to drive?

Each car has it's advantages for me. I'm glad that there are choices. Toyota and Lexus-- the best of the best for my money.

ljflx

Best of luck. What's the color and did you get anything off MSRP?

feverhart

Thanks for the comment. The color as noted is Obsidian Black ---with cashmere interior. Paid MSRP as the Touting model is hard to come by in this area and is usually only by special order with a waiting period of several months+. Even so, there were others waiting to buy it after I got in line first just when it became available. Supply and demand decided the price.

My first black car and my wife loves the color. Gotta admit, great color for funerals and weddings.

ljflx

Can't get anything off here either unless it's a bad color. Obsidian black certainly doesn't fit that. I got $1K off a custom order simply because I've done so much business with them. I should get my car, which is air suspension but not touring, by mid month in smoky granite mica with the light gray interior.

Those are the bigger brakes in the touring car. How do you find them? A friend of mine has the touring car also and he says his brakes are fabulous, best he's ever had in a car. He complained about the tires also and paid an upcharge for better thread. I'd wear them out for 12-15K miles and then get the tires of your choice.

Agree with you - the 2004 car was a great car. I just turned mine in. Another 60K of perfect reliability. I must be at 300K of perfect miles on my LS cars by now. In fact I've had perfect liability on the LS cars, an LX and 2 GX's to date.

I think we've now bought in tandem around the same time in 2001,2004 and 2007.

Good luck again.

1branch

I do have ECT POWER switch. Unfortunately I feel it is under performing. Try it. Get on the freeway at 60-65 MPH and it takes 2-3 seconds for it to kick down when you stomp on the gas. Let me know.

feverhart

ljflx, the brakes feel fine, but I've really have not had to test them. My foot controls the accelerator more than the brakes, often even in emegency situations.

Frankly, I think I would prefer the smoky granite mica over black--great color and not as much upkeep, though I do prefer the lighter interior.

Good luck on your upcoming arrival with it's back seat upgrade.

ms09

Hello guys first of all i want to know the difference between touting and normal?

And second my friend is considering purchasing LS460/460L or s 550 or the 7 series well i already got opinion telling go for the LS what do you guys say??

What's the difference between 460 460L just stretched?

1branch when u say its under performing ur sure if i tell this to my friend he sure will be more confused buying a car.

feverhart ,

my mom is might take a rav4 since u mentioned u got 1 can u tell me how good is this car

And 1 more ques any1 know how good is the cl class 550 no im not the cl550 buying or my friend or mom, just asking because i love the design of this car.

thanks.

ljflx

Funny - I went out to eat tonite and parked myself right next to an LS460 (SWB) in smoky granite. Car looks awesome in that color and my wife looked at me and said "boy am I glad we took this color". It was also nice to se that the G35 I took, which is a medium gray, is a markedly different color than the smoky granite.

ljflx

Hello guys first of all i want to know the difference between touting and normal?

I think the real question is whether to order an air suspension car or the base suspension. My preference is the air suspension (std on touring and usually special order on the regular LS460L). I find the air suspesion gives the car that extra special feel.

You are dealing with different cars with different strengths in this market. It's a function of what a lux buyer is looking for. Most are looking for what the S and LS deliver which is supreme luxury and it's why they are the biggest sellers every year. If your friend is looking sport go A 8 or 7 but those miss as luxury cars for me personally. The Jag is the other alternative and fits the classic lux mode. I've just never been a fan of the car.

feverhart

"Hello guys first of all i want to know the difference between touting and normal?"

"touting", read: touring. Along with air suspension it also has larger high friction brakes and 19 inch wheels. It also is available only in the LS490L. The air suspension can be set in 3 different modes.

As to the LS vs BMW and MB, they each have their advantages. For my purposes, the superior NAV, intuitive controls, reliablity, shorter turning diameter, MPG makes it a no-brainer in my preference for the LS.

"my mom is might take a rav4 since u mentioned u got 1 can u tell me how good is this car" In my opinion, this is a great car, especially the V6, 4WD, Limited edition. Consumers Guide rates it as top in its class. I love it.

nvbanker

Yep, it was me. Perhaps I had a bad car (is there such a thing at Lexus? I don't think so), and the black interior did it no good, as it always makes me uncomfortable for some reason. But it felt a lot sportier than the Camry's I've rented during the past year. I personally think the Camry is (was) the easiest driving machine on earth. Perhaps they've changed too - I'll find out. I missed the luxury in the new ES, found plenty of sport. Not alltogether a bad thing, but not what I expected.

ljflx

Picking it up tomorrow or Saturday. I orderred the car on Feb 2 per my records so it 96 days from that point to arrival at dealership on this custom order. I'll post observations after a week or so of driving and also will post some pix sooner.

dan67

Congratulations! I think we all will be interested in your first reactions. Also let us know what colors and extra's you ordered and pricing. Did you trade in your car and get a fair deal? Best of luck although recent posts by new owners have been very positive.

ljflx

Thanks.

I have air suspension, lux pckge, pre collision and the ML package. MSRP is $82,800. Smokey granite mica with light gray interior. I got $1K off MSRP.

cyclone4

Len,

This is awesome news. 96 days does not seem too long for a special order. I can't wait to see your photos and also hear about your driving experience. I will be placing a special order for mine as soon as the specs are in (late July or early August) for the 2008 model. I wonder if there will be any significant changes.

I have finally put the LS600HL out of my mind. If it comes equipped with Lithium-Ion battery 2 or 3 years from now, I will likely order it then.

cyclone4

What isn't so great is the increased turning diameter, the lack of quietness compared to the 430, the skinny windows and the cheapy summer tires with a 140 tread wear and A A rating. There are more reasonable all-season tires with a 400 AA A rating available for the 19 inch wheels, which I believe Lexus should have given as an option.

feverhart, please give us some additional details about the above. I despise noise when I am driving. So, the LS460L is noisier than the LS430? Or does this little more noise only apply to the Touring model? I have heard of a rather major wind noise problem on the SWB LS460 that Lexus was attempting to correct, but had not yet come up with a good solution. And why is the turning radius greater than that of the LS430? Is it because the LS460 is about 5 inches longer? I have been loving the small turning radius on my 2004 LS430. Concerning the tires, I thought that they come equipped with all season tires.

Any more insight on all these issues by you, ljflx, or by anyone else would be appreciated.

feverhart

the lack of quietness compared to the 430 may be a perceptive concept on my part, but it just seems not to be as quite as the LS430, especially as it goes through the gears.

increased turning diameter I, too, love the shorter turning diameter. But the 460L has a greater turning diameter than the LS460 and the Touring model has an even greater turning diameter than the 460L without touring. Probably has to do with the 19 inch wheels. Still, the turning circle is shorter than its competitors--Audi, BMW, and MB.

Unfortunately, the Touring comes equiped only with the summer tires (140 tread wear rating). When they are gone at 10K, I'll know what to get.

Don't get me wrong, I like the car overall with so many advanced features. The engine starts quicker than the LS430--a little thing, but noticable.

From the imformation that I have recieved, the Touring model will look the same as the LS600H, and even have the same brakes and tires. But...the Touring has the advantage with the available 18cf trunk vs less than 12cf.

Good luck

cyclone4

Thank you feverhart! Like you, I have also been enjoying my 2004 LS430. However, I am looking forward to an upgrade this fall as long as I don't have an issue with wind noise, etc.

ljflx

Ok - I'll upload a bunch of pix. The one of the trunk is expressly for Charlie.

My initial impressions (remember I have air suspension) is the car is well above the LS430 in ride and overall quality, handles very well (particularly in sport mode with little if any loss in ride quality, and sport mode is lower to the ground), it's a very quiet ride (noticablty more quiet than the 430 but they do let you hear the engine howl when you step on it hard), I heard no wind noise at all (and I had the car over 80mph on the way home), it's very fast (much faster than the 430) and the tranny is dead silent as it shifts gears, and in LWB form it's very roomy in front and behind. They had ten (10) Smoky gramite micas that were being deliverred today and tomorrow alone so this color has become a big seller. I have no idea how many LS460's as a whole were set to go but there were a lot in the huge prep building and the only available car for sale they had was in gold (which is a hideous color IMO)

Charlie - LS600HL is now sold out at my dealership well into year 3 production. My dealer and two or three others that are also sold out for 2+ years are urging Lexus to up production as there is a lot of demand for the car and virtually all will be coming in around $111-115K. Apparently the reviews have increased demand and the guy who wrote the Edmunds review has gotten this thing dead wrong. It's a big halo car and it's hot. As well the LFA is already in hot demand. I think the Lexus name has become even bigger than I had it pegged at.

For Doc - they are leaning heavily to building the HPX.

Pix - I'll post one or two now and more in another post. I want to be sure I use the right link. You need to click on the pix to make it larger.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4v4t2jp
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=5zlvij4
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=524k1go
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4qxr9ee

rennybosch

Thanks for the pix and the review, Len. Picture number 1 made me scream, "What? No cassette tape player? How am I going to listen to my books on tape?" Am I right about no cassette tape? Surely that can't be an option, since you got the top of the line Mark Levinson. Is tape nowadays considered passe? What a shocker. I'll have to stick with my 04 LS430.

Best regards, and happy driving,

Renny

gteach26

Very nice ride. Congrats and ENJOY!!!

How they made it quieter than the 430 I'll never know.

Is the increase in HP from the 430 really noticeable?

ljflx

Never even noticed it. But I haven't played a tape in 5+ years so it's irrelevant to me. BTW I notice almost no difference in turning ratio. I have a relatively tight turn from my garage to a brick retaining wall (you can see it in one of the pix) and the car clears it with ease just as the LS430 did. If it's a wider radius I am not noticing it.

Here's a few more pix:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=67xj5tl
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=52vhh07
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6bireox
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=5xhpcpj
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4zlvte9

My kids love this leg room:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=63t5m6p

ljflx

Yes. You'll get that acceleration that'll thrust you backward if you step on it hard. Much more powerful car than the 430.

houdini1

Good pix. Congrats and enjoy. You are giving me new car fever!!

cyclone4

Outstanding photos of this awesome car Len. I am looking forward to mine I hope sometime this fall. I happy to hear that there is no wind noise even at 80mph. Does your dealer know if there will be any significant changes for 2008?

As far as the LS600HL is concerned, obviously that Edmunds guy was full of you know what. However, there is one reason and one reason only that I cancelled my order and you know what that is already. I was expecting much better fuel efficiency for a hybrid. I'm sure this will be markedly improved once it is equipped with the Lithium-Ion battery.

ljflx

Charlie,

I don't know what they can really add. I'd imagine they will make the passenger seats with memory and offer a lane departure system as part of the pre-collision. I was paying very close attention to the wind noise and even shut off the ML (that's not easy to do as I forgot to note the stereo in this car is incredible and put in a DVD audio disc as I did and you are totally blown away) and I didn't hear any wind noise. Maybe it was an early glitch that has been corrected.

I asked about the LS600HL. Within 2 years they supposedly have a very powerful battery coming. MPG likely going way up. This years car is the equivalent of a 1985 PC vs what will be here in a few years time from what I got wind of today. That'll be my 2010 car. I imagine the LX570 is going to be awesome if you like/want a lux SUV.

Houdini - thanks. The car is phenomenal.

cyclone4

It would be nice to offer that lane departure option.

OK, I'm with you. With a new powerful battery by 2010, I will also join you and order the LS600HL at that time. I don't think I am going to lease the 2008 LS460L. Thus, it will be no problem doing what I want to do down the road. $85K seems real cheap compared with $122K (with tax) for the LS600HL.

The lease for my wife's RX400H expires next April. The dealer told me that there is a chance for a new generation battery for the 2009 RX. If so, we will extend the lease through next summer and then lease the new 2009 RX. All this adds up to fun times ahead for luxury car lovers .

ljflx

I passed on it but it may have more value today then a few years ago. One shortcoming with these push button starts cars (I have it on the Infiniti too) is you only get two sets of keys. Gone are the valet keys and the wallet credit card like key. When you valet park you discharge a key that unlocks your glove box and trunk and leave the valet with your keyless emitter. Heaven forbid if the valet loses it as you then have no extra key to start the car (I once had a valet lose the key I gave him in the pre-keyless days). But with Lexus link I believe they can end a signal through to unlock the doors and start the car if something like that happens.

Bottom line - if you valet park you may want to make sure you have a second set of keys with you as insurance. I'm going to see if they can get me an extra (3rd) key set.

BTW - the DVD player plays video DVD's on the nav screen but the car must be in park and the emergency brake has to be on for it to do so. But there is no emergency brake on this car. It's electronic. There's a hold button on the steering wheel ythat may be the key to this. I don't know yet as I'm figuring this stuff out yet.

I tested the brakes and find them to be better than the 430. Anyone that is worrying about stopping distances after that C&D review put it out of your mind. The brakes on this car are excellent.

Finally if anyone lives in Monmouth County NJ and has Verizon Wireless (as I do) Shore cellular will download your phone book for $50 (your spouses as well) onto any Lexus with bluetooth. This is only a Verizon Wireless issue.

dan67

Len,

Good to hear your brakes are excellent. Do you have the standard wheels, tires and brakes?

I agree that the Keyless Emitter (which is on my wifes car) has negatives. No "hide-a-key" and losing/misplacing a key will be a major hassle. When I drive her car and she jumps out to shop with the emitter I'm stuck once I stop the car. Guess that means I should shop with her. Ugh.

Great pictures, and glad to hear all your inputs.

ljflx

"Good to hear your brakes are excellent. Do you have the standard wheels, tires and brakes?"

Yes - 18" wheels with Bridgestone Turanza tires. I wanted those or Michelins on the car over the Dunlops.

houdini1

Do you happen to know when the new LX570 will be available? I am also wondering if the Landcruiser will change in the same model year or at all.

ljflx

Eraly 2008 is all I know.

feverhart

My initial impressions (remember I have air suspension) is the car is well above the LS430 in ride and overall quality, handles very well (particularly in sport mode with little if any loss in ride quality, and sport mode is lower to the ground), it's a very quiet ride (noticablty more quiet than the 430 but they do let you hear the engine howl when you step on it hard), I heard no wind noise at all (and I had the car over 80mph on the way home), it's very fast (much faster than the 430) and the tranny is dead silent as it shifts gears, and in LWB form it's very roomy in front and behind.

ljflx, you are truly a rich man: rich as realistically defined to be someone who is satisfied with what he has. And that smokey granite must be a great color, though I have yet to see one.

Thanks for sharing all of your comments.

nvbanker

$1 off huh.....still too early, I guess.

ljflx

$1K

Thanks Feverhart.

jdwiii

It is now May 14, 2007. I am debating buying the L vs. the SWB because of the Air Suspension. Do you still like your L with the Touring Package? Anyone else have any comments on the Air Suspension or the Touring Package?

ljflx

The air suspension is a nice touch and makes the car more special. Tou have 3 settings - normal, comfort and sport. Sport lowers the car and tightens the ride but the ride is still super lux. If you are in the east you likely need to custom order an air suspension or touring car.

lovmylex2

after reading all of the helpful comments about the new 460's i finally went to the dealership here in orlando to see them in person. i had gone with the intent of looking at a regular 460 with navigation in either the smokey or verdigris but upon arrival and letting the salesman know what i was looking for, he told me they probably had 30-40 ls460's on the lot but only a handful were the regular 460's... i was also told that if i would consider a 460L off the lot he would help out with price.

alright mr. salesman, i'll play...

they had several of the smokey with black interiors but i didn't like the dark interior... then he showed me a verdigris with tan 'touring' package... a little bit more car than what i need just being my wife and i but it sure did look good with the 19" rims!

their first offer was $4K off sticker + tax/tag but i really felt like i was paying for more stuff than i needed or wanted... i offered them what i thought was a ridiculous price assuming that we would go back and reevaluate getting me just a regular 460 but after a few minutes the salesman came back and shook my hand... right time, right place?.?.?

i love my new ls460L... it definitely has more options than i had intended but it sure does look good with the 19" rims!... hopefully i'll never have to use the lexus link but a nice feature anyway... parking feature?.?.? the salesman told me it was more of a show-off feature... look what my car can do!....

anyhow, i wanted to thank you all for your posts... this has a great ride... is quiet... looks great... has an awesome stereo... and i am very happy with the options (even though i didn't pay for all of them... he he he )

cyclone4

Len,

Can give give us a few more comments about your driving experience with your brand new LS460L now that you have owned it since last Friday? Did you drive it a lot over the weekend?

gteach26

Congrats and enjoy your new car!!!

Gotta ask....

What was the ridiculous price you offered that they accepted? I noticed you didn't volunteer the info on your post but my nosiness has gotten the best of me!!!

Here in South Florida they've probably got a similar 460 inventory glut.. I get the feeling good deals are forthcoming if one is willing to take the car form current dealer inventory.