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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L News, Views and Opinions

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Comments

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I thought 42 was wierd too, but my friend the Ford Engineer, said that's what was being talked about industry wide. It may have changed by now, and it seems nobody is moving yet. I'm old enough to remember 1956 when most of the American Cars all went from 6 volt to 12 volt systems. It was fun jumping a 6 volt car with a 12 volt one....Man that starter moved fast, but you couldn't crank it for long, it would burn out quickly.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    Nice job syswei! You definitely asked the most pertinent questions that a lot of us would like to have answers. I am glad you put some pressure on Lexus that the AWD option is a must on the new LS by the fall of 2007. I also find it incredulous that they are not releasing any info on the LS600HL trunk capacity at this point.
  • jd14jd14 Posts: 128
    I know there's got to be a place for future Lexus vehicles that I just can't find but can someone here help me out? I'm trying to find a place to talk about and find information on the new Lexus SUVs and the LS superior (L650? I can't remember the name) that are coming out soon. Thanks.
  • tricky73tricky73 Posts: 132
    I would like to see comments from 460 buyers who have owned 4XX series Lexi as to whether the new design is really such an improvement as Lexus (and some posters on this site) would have us believe. My situation involves having owned an '04 430, an '05 330, and currently driving an '06 430. My '06 has sport suspension and has been a flawless automobile from day 1. It has the average goodies (Levinson, Nav, Satellite radio etc.)

    I made the mistake of driving an $85K 460L having air suspension and variable ratio steering and was impressed it is (perhaps) an even better car than I currently drive. But is it??? For example, how much quieter can the 460 be?

    For years the 430 was at the top of everybodys' quality list, it was comfortable, etc. etc. But is the 460 (w/air suspension) $45-$50K better than what I am driving? This is where I would like feedback from drivers who have owned both models to help with my dilemma. I do not hotdog a car, so whether it achieves 0-60 in 5.? sec is not that important to me. Living in Southern California, AWD would probably be a total waste. As stated in an earlier post, I am not impressed the leg room in the back seat of the new model (even for the 460L) is that much of an improvement over the 430, and having to accept park-o-matic, Lexus link (I hated OnStar), and other unused features to get delivery may be a stretch, especially if I am disappointed with other attributes of the new design such as reliability, comfort, etc. One complaint I have with the 430 is cramped driver knee space near the door, and this apparently still exists with the 460.

    However, there was something about the 460 which was very impressive for a short drive, and hope there is somebody out there, having owned/driven both models, can comment.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    is better on the 460, it's quieter, believe it or not, and the interior design is subtly altered for the better I believe. Little more attractive. I found the driving position to be identical to the 430, if my eyes were closed, I couldn't tell you which one I was sitting in.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Try to get your dealer to let you take the 460 overnight.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Pat,

    That forum doesn't show up to the left under Browse By Vehicle/Lexus/Select Model....even though the IS-F and LF-A do.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    If you look just for Lexus without specifying a model it shows up.

    Edmunds, not the Forums/CarSpace, controls what shows up in those drop downs. A future vehicle usually is closer to release when they add a category for it, at least that's what I have observed.

    You could always use the keyword search, but that wouldn't have helped jd14 since he didn't remember the name.
  • tricky73tricky73 Posts: 132
    Which 460 did you get? What about the brakes? That was one factor that drove me from the 330 back to the 430; finest brakes I have ever used. At my age that is far more important than the accelerator!
  • jd14jd14 Posts: 128
    Thanks. It seems that nobody has much information on the new SUVs yet and nobody (except for a few people on the LS forums) has ever posted anything about the L600. Hmmm... maybe Lexus will unveil some of these at the coming Detroit Auto Show...
  • Do you live in the mountains or otherwise use curvey roads an apreciable amount of time. Here in LA, seems that luxury is more important than the few days a year we go off the freeway circut. I cannnot see any advantage to the touring package for freeway travel, only for curves at higher speeds than is usual.
  • hendjazhendjaz Posts: 155
    Seattle, so daily urban/suburban driving but the mountains are close by. We are also blessed with many nearby more rural roads that can be fun to drive.

    The Touring package, with the adjustable air suspension, 19" wheels/tires, larger brakes, etc. provides the flexiblity of going with the cushy, luxury ride but then opt for the more sport mode when the driving conditions and one's spirit warrant. My default setting is however sport/power for the custom settings and then go with the softer settings for speed bumps or for straight freeway driving. Touring is of benefit though in quick lane changes and the like and minimizes any body roll in such quick moves, which is why I leave it in sport mode by default.
  • "I would like to see comments from 460 buyers who have owned 4XX series Lexi as to whether the new design is really such an improvement as Lexus (and some posters on this site) would have us believe. . ."

    That is exactly also what I would like to know. For example, on my last service they gave me an 07 ES350 loaner, and it had the push button start/stop, which I liked. I think I would also like the push button parking brake. But aren't there some other goodies that only a new owner would really appreciate? So far no answers. Maybe you should repost your question in the LS460 group.
  • tricky73tricky73 Posts: 132
    In a previous post I requested input from owners of the LS 460 series to compare it to a previous 4XX automobile they have owned/leased; I have seen no replies.

    As stated earlier, I own an '06 LS 430 (~$65K MSRP) with the sport suspension. Asking around the Los Angeles area in a "what-if" manner, I would need to add an additional $45-$50K to trade up to a 460 with air suspension, hopefully one having the touring package. One dealer made a firm offer on a car with the touring package for a difference of $61K, and seemed disappointed I did not accept. However, to be fair, $8-$9K of the purchase price represent sales tax and license fees for which the dealer has no control.

    My conclusion is that even with all of the gee-whiz features in the new design there is no rational which would indicate the 460 is that superior to its' predecessor for that price difference. Also, to respectively argue with Lexus marketing types, I feel the SWB model will NOT prove to be their big seller; I also wonder how long the executive package will be offered. An interesting dichodemy.

    Those who are in a "must-have-one" frame-of-mind must be leasors rather than buyers, and only considering their lease payments increase a few hundred over what they are paying now. Loading the vehicle with Lexus Link (ugh!), radar cruise control, etc. makes the thought even less appealing.

    Just some random thoughts from the geezer community...I would love to hear other thoughts about the economics of replacing a recent 430 model with a 460.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,921
    MERRY CHRISTMAS to you also Tricky73. Sorry, I do not own a new LS but your post made me very curious for more details.

    You did not specify if you were looking at a long wheel base so I assume the "deal" you were offered was a SWB. Could you please share a few more of the details as this seems to be a very poor deal to me. For instance:

    1. List price (no taxes plese) of the new LS.
    2. Actual trade-in value of the 06 being offered to you.

    I would think that your car would still be worth around $50K. That would mean the new one is around $110K? This seems crazy high to me. Thanks for the details in advance.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tricky73tricky73 Posts: 132
    The 'deal' was for a LWB w/touring package, MSRP $82,407. By the time they showed the car the price had increased to $92K and change w/o tax, having added chromed wheels and LoJack. I can't imagine anybody trying to peddle LoJack if the car has Lexus Link, which this one had. I asked our police chief one time whether they could really track a stolen vehicle equipped w/LoJack, and his advice was "if your car is ever stolen, you really don't want it back"!

    I was so annoyed after the bait-and-switch I did not bother driving the car. It did not have the upgrade (analine?) leather, and the interior appearance was no better than my '06. A personal choice, but I prefer the maple wood from '06 to the walnut being offered in 2007. My 430 has less than 2.8K miles with sport suspension, satellite radio, NAV, Levinson, and chromed wheels. There is not a blemish anyplace on the automobile. They generously offered $39K as a trade-in.

    Had they said upfront they are putting a $10K premium on the MSRP because is is a scarce vehicle I could respect that explanation rather than the BS about chromed wheels costing $4k. I know this sounds nit-picky for a car in this price range but I do not like being played for a fool, which is the wrong strategy for Lexus dealers when trying to convince buyers interested in new 460 series.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,921
    OK, now I understand. Certainly you should have walked away from that deal. Not only that but I would find a new dealer if possible. Those guys need to be selling to someone not as savvy as Lexus buyers. Maybe they should open a Mercedes dealership! ;)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • Tricky73, could you name the dealer that you mentioned? They (Edmunds) let you name dealers, just not salesmen.
  • dan67dan67 Posts: 51
    I've drive the 2001 LS 430 which I bought new. Always thought I'd trade it in for this new model. But I have several problems:
    1. Dealers in SoCal have NO cars to test drive - the few they get are pre sold. I won't buy any car without a decent test drive. Big demand for these cars or intentional effort by Lexus keep prices up or both?
    2. My 2001 has 65K miles and I'll be darned but it drives and looks like a new car and never has had a problem. I love driving it. No one has ever complained about it's comfort or leg room.
    3. The new LS 460 size has grown in width, lower in height, much heavier, and it's tad longer in length. All in small increments but still negatives to me. I can't ever remember ever needing more speed than my 430 has.
    4. All the extra electronics really won't make driving more comfortable to me. Example: I need a self parking option like a hole in my head.
    Yet, price isn't an issue for me and I like new pretty fancy things ... but does it make any sense to jump to a 460 when I'm very happy with my "old" 430? My friends think I will jump but only based on satisfying my ego. Oh gee, life is full of these type issues and I wish I knew the right decision. HELP!! (BTW happy Xmas and New Year to all) :)
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    One of the guys I play tennis with changed his mind and decided to go with the S550. He was going to go with the LS460L. He previously owned an S500. BTW, he had this vehicle in the shop rather frequently. Of course he brought up the recent C & D comparison where the LS460L came in last place among the 5 luxury cars tested. In particular, he mentioned the breaking distance from 70 to 0 as pretty awful. I tried to tell him that this was a pre-production model but he does not believe me. He picked up the C & D magazine and read the review and he claims that it does not say it is a pre-production model.

    Here is where ljflx can be of help. lj, about 10 days ago you stated that this C & D comparison is a joke and I agree with you. You also said that you really had to look hard but in a subtle message the C & D revealed that the LS460L was indeed a pre-production model. I read the article through a link this past hour, but I cannot find this subtle statement. Where exactly is it located? I did see that the test was done on August 29 with a stated curb weight of 4700 pounds. How can this not be a pre-production model?

    After some thought, I have come to the conclusion that the real reason my tennis buddy decided to go with the S550 was for prestige. In his mind, he will look like more of a "big shot" with the S550. After all the trouble he had with his S500, I am very surprised he went to the "dark side" ;-).

    Merry Christmas and a Happy, healthy New Year everyone!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Merry Christmas Cyclone and everyone else. Been real busy so I have'nt been reading up much the past week.

    In the exerp below (which comes in the LS review part of the story) here's the only time in that review that you see mention of the car as a pre-production car. If you're not paying close attention you read right past it.

    "The steering mechanism rotates as if on roller bearings (it might well be), and the sound levels are low enough inside that imperfect door seals on our preproduction vehicle produced wind noise that seemed hurricane-like in comparison"

    Now compare that to how they went out of their way to let you know the A8 was a 2006 model right out of the gate before you even get into the A8 part of the review:

    For 2007, the A8 has a new direct-injection 4.2-liter V-8 with 350 horsepower; unfortunately, only a 2006 with the 40-valve, 335-hp V-8 was available for this test. So keep in mind that the specification, performance, and pricing information are for the 2006 A8L. Expect the ’07 car to be a smidge quicker and cost about $1000 more.

    Now shouldn't the quid pro quo (if you are reporting objectively) have been to state that "unfortunately, the LS 460L we tested was a preproduction model etc" and for that to have been made crystal clear in the article upfront. When I see bias like that I dismiss the whole report on the LS immediately whether it's pro or con. Of course it had no chance to be pro and that's why they made the notation of preproduction as hidden as they could.

    Here's the whole story:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12081/2006-jaguar-super-v-8-vs-2007-merc- - - edes-benz-s550-vs-2006-audi-a8l-quattro-vs-2007-lexus-ls460l-vs-2006-bmw-750li.h- - - tml

    BTW - I mentioned this review to a high source at my dealership. His response - which may be predjudiced or may be accurate - is that many auto reviewers are not happy that Lexus is selling $80-100K cars. As well the expected rollout of the L650 and the sportscar - which will be priced at $150K and the pre-orders of the LS600HL at over $100K are making it even worse. Most thought that when LS prices bumped against S550 prices and leapfrogged 7-series prices LS sales would falter. Instead people are bypassing the reviews and lining uo for the cars. As a poster pointed out earlier the car is difficult to even test drive because it is snapped up so quickly. I've heard a few reports about the LS460L going $5K or more over list now.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I've driven the 460, and it won't feel that much different to you, and unless you get the L, it won't park itself either. The seating feels the same. It drives smoother, quieter, and easier than the 430. I'm with you, power isn't an issue, my 430 has plenty, but once you get inside, you'll be greeted with a nicer array of instrumentation. Similar to what you have, but better and more attractive.

    I say, you can afford it, get one and boost the economy a bit. You won't be sorry, and you'll enjoy the car tremendously. I'm going to, but my current model is an 05, and I'm waiting probably another year or so.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    Thanks again lj! I wonder how many others actually saw this word (preproduction) as they read the article. I certainly missed it. I am not even sure that people on the HELC board saw this with their own eyes. This is so incredibly sneaky on the part of C & D. It will be a real pleasure to point this out to my tennis buddy. I can't wait to see his explanation now.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    It's why the C&D report on the LS is a joke. I've been in the publishing industry and know many editors. You only write like that if your intentions are NOT to be objective. I've driven the S550 and the LS460L several times. They are very much alike.

    OK - I've got to get back to Christmas before my wife and kids kill me.
  • tricky73tricky73 Posts: 132
    OK, there have been a few comments posted that have helped crystallize my thinking. A casual read of reviews and comments would have one believe the 460 is a revolutionary design product. I think this is what has bothered me all along.

    The 460 is not revolutionary at all; rather it should be viewed as a refined, heavier, smaller inside (SWB), and restyled version of the 4XX product line. For those of us who own/drive an earlier version of this series have long learned to appreciate the many wonderful attributes of the vehicle, and coupled with an examplary reliability history there is little reason to change except for emotional considerations. The changes being hyped probably are not cost effective if one is currently driving a late model 4XX. Thanks guys.

    BTW, I think the 9-spoke wheels of the 460 are dopey...anybody else bothered by this detail?


    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    I think your analysis is a good one. I'm trying to rationalize trading my '05 LS for the new LS, but it's not going to be a rational decision if I decide to get one. As far as the wheels are concerned, I think the chromed 5 spoke 18s on my LS look better than the new standard wheels. (and the new optional wheels don't look so great, either)
  • tricky73tricky73 Posts: 132
    Keyes Lexus in Van Nuys
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    You have to put it in perspective. In my opinion the 460 is a better car and regardless the new model is going to cost more money. You don’t have to go LWB, it’s not inherently better and it doesn't seem like you need it or want it. Since you have an 06 430 I don’t see what the issue is. You knew the new model was coming, so why are you compelled to squander money on a 1-year trade in? You’re not going to be left in the dust by keeping the 430 and you're not going to win a Nobel Prize by buying the 460. Keep your 430. It’s a good car, it's practically new and most importantly you like it. And if you don't just kiss the money goodbye and don't look back. It’s that simple.
  • dan67dan67 Posts: 51
    Decision:

    I'm Going to keep my nice looking, reliable, 65K 2001 LS 430 for 6-12 more months. During this period I'll decide what options and color I want for the 460. Dealers will start to deal and all (any) glitches will be fixed. My 430 won't depreciate much more. I'll see the new variations including AWD and the hybrid if they come out.

    Besides the other pluses I'll save about $1200 A MONTH by waiting just this short period.

    My ego won't be too bruised as my brain wins this little battle. Input here from all of you was helpful. :)
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