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2008 Mitsubishi Lancer

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Comments

  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I am 20 years old, so I have only had one car. My first car was a 2001 VW Jetta GLS 2.0L inline 4. It is an automatic trans. I want to learn how to drive a stick, but I live in Houston, TX, which is a busy big city. I am conflicted in whether I should get a CVT for the better mileage and the ability to go full auto when in traffic and wait to get another car down the road with a manual, or should I get the manual in the Lancer, learn, and just deal with the hassle of a stick in traffic when I run into it?
    Can anyone give me some advice in this regard? Thanks in advance.


    Sure I'd be happy to give you some advice. Buy a manual and really learn to drive it.
    The thrill of driving a stick for me never goes away and I have been driving for over 31 years now.
    Find someone who actually knows how to drive a manual and will teach you even if you have to pay a school to do it. I have taught my wife how to drive a manual and she is 4'11" tall and drives my 4 door Hi-Lux diesel truck. I'm currently living in the Philippines so driving here is a nightmare. But we have no traffic lights, no cops after 8pm, very few drivers even know the rules much less obey them, more people and trykes and trisikads and bicycles as well as motorcycles in the US we'd call the annoying pests. Better known as Mopeds, all doing their level best to get killed in the shortest possible time. :surprise:
    So if my wife can learn to drive in all that being a small girl in a huge truck you sure can learn to drive a Lancer in Houston TX. :)
    But really learn to drive it and once you get it get a hold of some SCCA members in your area www.scca.org
    and see if any of them would be willing to help you. Plus you can go to a few events and either watch or participate and you will have a permanent smile welded to your face! ;)
    Driving a stick is the only way to go. i an buy automatics and with my first wife i had to because she would not learn to drive a stick. My new wife is great and is getting better, now if she could only work on staying more to the left than the right we'd be doing better. driving school here consists on 10 hours of driving and a 4 hours lecture. After that you go down take a drug test and pay the money for the license and wait all day about 7.5 hours and then you have your license, no actual driving test required.
    Anyway, lots of fun and my wife an practice at the old air force base so I have her doing slaloms, donuts and J-turns and stuff to get her to relax and have fun. She does pretty well too.
    Traffic sucks but we all have to deal with it. CVT is not the way to go a true 5 or 6 spd is the best
    Get some people who can really teach you and then you'll be driving your car, not just steering it.
    I've taught a lot of people how to drive and myself I'm mostly self taught.
    You can do it if you really want to and the rewards are worth it, especially in a Lancer.
    My wife is thinking EVO now and she was leaning towards cheaper cars but she loves to drift the car and when you have drift a big [non-permissible content removed] truck that says a lot. :D
    Have fun with whatever decision you choose, WRC drivers use sticks with straight cut gears. CVT isn't all that durable if you build it up. Have you seen the video on Top Gear where a WRC driver in an EVO races an Olympic Bobsled team? 2km in a tick over 1 minute now that is driving! :D
    Here is the link so you can enjoy it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2TjsAm5H6U

    Of course in the same show they also jet propel an old Mini down a ski jump along with some other stuff. Great show!
  • cybergypsycybergypsy Posts: 51
    I lived in a large city and stick wa a PITA! You should learn to drive stick sometime, but i think you have the right idea CVT all the way was on a trip last weekend and I95 and turnoike were at a crawl for hours......Happpy about my chose
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    it's really your choice what you feel like getting. I would try them both, however, you don't currently know how to drive stick. Not a death knell, but you'll need to learn how to drive one and preferably before you get your Lancer.

    I drive stick and auto and my '08 Lancer GTS has the CVT automatic. Magnesium paddle shifters just behind the steering wheel with 6 + step shifts and 6 - step shifts. I actually went in there thinking they had a 5-speed Lancer GTS and when I found out it was the CVT automatic I was irritated with them for telling me on the phone that they had a Rally Red metallic '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with a 5-speed tranny and the Sun and Sound package. That little detail is important.

    My wife and I decided that if she were to ever want to drive the car we would need the CVT automatic as she doesn't drive stick. My son doesn't drive stick either so we decided that this particular Lancer GTS was our Lancer GTS. We bought it and haven't looked backed since.

    I may buy another stick shift some day but you need to decide(preferably after trying both tranny's out)which one suits you best. Take your time and learn to drive stick first if that's what you'll want to purchase.

    Heavy Houston traffic can be navigated in a stick as well as a CVT automatic. Probably the CVT would be a might easier to navigate nasty city traffic in. Driving a stick shift is a gas, though, too. Though I do like operating my Lancer GTS with the CVT, too. 6 or a half-a-dozen of the other, really.

    Take your time and make the best choice that you feel the most comfortable with getting. Let us know what you decide and please feel free to ask more questions about auto or stick or just any other questions about this beautiful new car from Mitsubishi. Believe you me the car will not disappoint you whichever tranny you choose! ;)

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • I personally, unlike my sister and friends, want to learn to drive a stick sooner or later. I would prefer sooner, but I am hesitant because I know that I will hit Houston traffic being a matter of when rather than if. I know that a stick in traffic is a leg workout to say the least.

    I have already tried both transmissions on two different occasions, driving them back to back by myself during the test drive. My father and mother both know how to drive a stick even though their current cars are both automatics, so a teacher won't be an issue. I would essentially be getting a Lancer manual to be my learning and experience car. I suppose one way to look at it is it will allow me to better appreciate the automatic trans vehicle I will most likely get down the road when I have a family.

    I am already pretty sound with the basic operation of a manual trans; I just need to work on the two hardest parts of driving any car with a manual trans, pulling away from a complete stop in 1st and both up and down shifting easily and smoothly to not have the "shift shock" from being a newbie. Both of these will come with time whenever I get a manual car whether it be in the Lancer or another down the road.

    One other note of a different mindset. I mailed a letter to Mitsubishi North America about some questions I had about the new Lancer and upcoming models to see if they could and would answer what the local Mitsubishi dealerships could not. When I get any kind of return message, I will post the questions I had along with any given info that Mitsubishi North America provides me.

    Also, since it seems the best deals on new Lancers are coming out of Florida, I may just have to contact my close friends and family there to see if they could check the local dealerships for me. A $200 dollar plain ticket to save a few extra thousand dollars makes sense to me. Plus, I could pretty much break in the engine and the car driving back to Houston, TX over a few days. ;)

    Bill
  • cybergypsycybergypsy Posts: 51
    Sport mitsi in Orlando has the best deals, well worth the trip......
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I have already tried both transmissions on two different occasions, driving them back to back by myself during the test drive. My father and mother both know how to drive a stick even though their current cars are both automatics, so a teacher won't be an issue. I would essentially be getting a Lancer manual to be my learning and experience car. I suppose one way to look at it is it will allow me to better appreciate the automatic trans vehicle I will most likely get down the road when I have a family.

    I think you will fin it to be the other way around. Once you have to go the minivan route as I did with 3 kids and driving automatics because your wife cannot and will not drive a manual you will be happy to get into a sporty car and drive a stick.
    If I knew exactly what I know now when I was 20 years old, wow! would my life have been different! Problem is I wouldn't have believed anyone when I was 20, got married at 21 :sick:
    No fun cars for a looooong time! :cry:
  • shado4shado4 Posts: 287
    Does anyone think the radio display is too dim? Any fix on that?

    That's a complaint I have with my Lancer as well. The radio display is simply unreadable in bright sunlight. If it was as bright as the center display between the gauges then it would not be an issue. As it stands now, though, I've given up trying to decipher the radio display whenever it is sunny outside.

    I haven't heard of a fix for this yet. I think the red-tinted plastic screen in front of the radio display is way too dark. Why can't Mitsu make the radio display as bright as the trip computer/odometer display?

    Other than the dim display I love my Lancer.
  • I just bought a 08 lancer gts with the navi pack it was msrp for 21900 i got it for 17900 at mark mitsubishi in phoenix az but im looking for some good parts for it but i cant do you have any places you know of???
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    are you looking to modify your Lancer's motor? Or add some other part that is just for looks, like a body piece of some kind?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • Very well done on negotiating the price. As for modification parts, regardless of whether they are performance or aesthetic , they are going to be somewhat few and far between (especially from major main third party companies) to find for a while until the Lancer has been out there enough to give them time to develop the parts. I have been looking high and low also, but have only found a hand full of parts here and there currently.

    Give it a few months and you will start to see the mod parts you are looking for.

    Bill
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    quality parts in my Lancer GTS that I can narely think of anything they left out. The car looks a lot like a racecar and it has the leather knob and steering wheel, tie-down mats, accents a plenty left and right. I am satisfied with the car's acceleration so modding the engine(and nullifying my Warranty)is not going to be necessary.

    I intend to keep the car's maintenance up to a tee and keep it washed often, waxed, cleaned in detail, etc. as best I can. I am of the opinion that this is the car(along with the 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander)that turns Mitsubishi's fortunes around in the U.S. Happy to help them out in this endeavour!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • Got a couple of things to relay to those who want to know.

    First, Mitsubishi is considering building both a sedan and a hatchback 5-door version of the future Evo X. They are still debating is they will. The other thing to they are considering is, should they choose to make a hatchback version, would it be available in the U.S. Europe and Asia like the Hatches more than the U.S.

    Second, just for those who are concerned or questioning engine modification as I did. The letter of the law states that the manufacturers warranty is considered void if and only if the modification to the engine is the cause of the engines problem. So, if you change the air intake to an open, cold air intake style, that wouldn't affect the warranty. If you recalibrate the ECU of the engine, and it causes something to break, that would be considered voiding the warranty. Just for those considering such modifications.

    Bill
  • krynskykrynsky Posts: 8
    I just got word from my dealership that the factory is not going to be able to make a custom order in Blue for (potentially) a few months. Apparently there's some problem/shortage of the pearl blue. Also there's a problem adding certain accessories like the spoiler.

    So after a bit of back-and-forth my latest suggestion to the dealer is....... Find me a Pearl Blue GTS w/ sun and sound and then swap the GTS tires for ES tires.

    I know many of you will think I'm crazy (and the dealer said he'd have to check on whether this is possible). But I found the road noise on the big 18" rims to be MUCH more intrusive then the ES with the standard tires. It may not look quite as nice on the outside, but I think I'll have a more comfortable ride.

    I'd also prefer the premium fabric on the ES to the suede fabric on the GTS, but I think I'll have to live with that.

    If anyone has any comments on my idea let me know. I won't get any news from the dealership for another day or two.
  • Krynsky,

    I see a few major problems with this suggestion. I am not sure if you received a brochure catalog over the 2008 Lancer, but I did when I went to my dealership. If you flip to the back where it states the technical specs of the different trims you will find that the GTS while using 18" wheels also uses the larger 11 to 12 inch outlander disk brakes. The ES uses smaller 10 to 11 inch brakes. Now, I am not sure if changing out the GTS tires to the ES's 16" will affect this, but you may find that the brakes will need to be replaced as well to make them fit correctly.

    Also, the GTS has a completely different tuned suspension than the ES has. Because of this, changing the tires may help reduce road noise, but the overall smoothness of the ride may not change as the GTS is already geared towards a more aggressive posture than the ES trim. This means modifying and changing the suspension possible too to get the right smooth ride you are looking for.

    By the time you pay the difference for these kind of switch outs, it may be better to get a white ES with what you want then take it to a body shop like Maaco or whatever is local to your area and have them repaint it to the correct blue color you want. My parents had to do that with their car because my mom wanted a new Ford Escape in Yellow, but they no longer make it in that color. So, they got a white one and repainted it professionally and it turned out good and saved some money from fixing up an older model.

    Just my 2 cents...

    Bill
  • Hi everyone first post here, and i hope to make more.

    Well heres the deal. I am planning on buying a car in the next few months. In being fearful of reliability me and the family have always stucked to the likes of honda and toyota. My first question is how reliable is the mitsubishi cars in the US Market.

    Second question is more about the 08 lancer. Now i took a test drive of the car and my only gripes were it was a bit lower on the power and that there was a considerable too much noise from the engine when accelerating. Now upon doing research someone on a yahoo board said that after around a 3k mile breakin with the car the noise should go down considerably. Also that he installed performance mods and hes getting a considerable amount of horsepower. here is the exact quote.

    "IVE HAD MY LANCER FOR 3 MONTHS WITH 3K MILES ON IT, DRIVES LIKE A DREAM, I PUT A SHORT-RAM AIR INTAKE AND EXHAUST ON IT AND IM DRIVING ON 180 HP NOW. THE LOUD NOISE WITH THE ACCELERATION IS THE CVT TRANS AND AFTER 2K MILES IT BREAKS IN AND YOU COULD BARELY HEAR IT."

    Do you believe this is true. I am more concerned about the road noise cause it is loud. Please reply back i am in much confusion to whether i should get a 06 accord coupe or the lancer. thanks.
  • ru06ru06 Posts: 23
    Hey absolut. This is probably actually true. I have 3,400 miles on my 08 Lanc GTS now and the engine noise upon acceleration really isn't as loud as it used to be actually. I really don't notice it anymore. This could be because of the break-in or maybe I just got used to it, but it really isn't as loud as it is as when I first got it. As for the 06 Accord Coupe... if you get that model, it will be outdated already in about 6 months. This was part of the reason why I didn't consider the Accord... the model is due for a redesign on 08.. should be coming out really soon. The Lancer on the other hand has just been redesigned and so will hold it's value and "awe," if you will, much longer than the now out-going Accord model. Also I've had mine for almost 4 months now and so far I haven't had any reliability issues or complaints. I really enjoy driving this car... def recommend it to you! As for the slower acceleration, if you use the paddle shifters on the CVT it is actually very quick. I blew by a Scion off the line about a month ago! ;)
  • Here is my 2 cents being a perspective Lancer buyer as well and from what I have heard from others.

    1) Is the Mitsubishi brand reliable?

    Personally, I feel any major car company is at least somewhat reliable now and days. I still prefer any import brand such as Honda, Toyota, or Mitsubishi because they seem to finish the little extra touches here and there a lot better than in domestic models. I feel that reliability, while partly being reliant on the manufacturing, also heavily depends on the driver. If the person pushes the car all the time and doesn't take care of it and put the money into it for preventative maintenance, then you are just asking of trouble. To answer more directly, I have a close friend who is a local mechanic and he says that if it is a Toyota or a Mitsubishi, he generally doesn't see them meaning that they don't have problems because he is one of the bigger mechanic locations in my area that everyone knows and about and uses from basic maintenance (oil change) to full body work and restoration.

    2)What is with the clicking and loud whirl noise from the engine and/or transmission?

    As most cars are, being brand new means that a lot of the parts, although lubed by the manufacturer, still have to be shipped to dealers and finished small assembly and touch up here and there at the dealer. This is especially true with Mitsubishi because they actually build the entire car in Japan before shipping it over on a boat. With the first couple hundred to thousand miles, things will need to wear in and become accustomed to both the location (weather, humidity, etc.) as well as the car getting use to your driving style (which it actually does through the car's ECU controller). This noise should reduce over time.

    3) I feel like the road noise is loud. What can be done to fix that?

    It really depends on what model you test drove. If you test drove the GTS, then you got a car with a more stiff suspension with 18" stock wheels and performance season times. These can account for the louder noise, especially the tires that come standard. If you want to lower the noise, you can switch the factory tires for some softer ones and it should help fight the noise, OR you can look into the ES model which can be equipped with almost all of the same things that the GTS gets, but has a softer, smoother suspension with more commuter friendly 16" all season alloy wheels and tires. If you have not tried the ES, consider that if you want a more smooth, noiseless ride.

    4) The car seems to need more power...

    Yes, this is true. These base models all use the same 2.0 I4 4B11 engine which puts out about 152 HP. Now, depending on what you have driven, some will find that with a manual or using the CVT paddle shifters, it is plenty fast for them. For others, they still want more power to make it fun to drive for them. For those people who wish for the latter, you really have 2 options. One, you can get an ES or GTS model and, using after market parts like the gentleman in the other forum did, help the 4B11 engine achieve some more horsepower, just be wary of doing any direct modding to the power train as if it is found to be the cause of a problem down the road, this can be considered grounds for Mitsubishi, or any manufacturer for that matter, to void your warranty. The second option is that there are plans by Mitsubishi (if 08 Lancer sales are high enough which they are showing good signs) to create two more trim levels that will sit between the GTS model and the top of the line 300 HP beast that is the Evo X. The model just above the GTS trim, not currently given a designation as it is still be decided if it will be produced, will use a larger 2.4L I4 engine that should push the HP up to around 170 to 190 depending on the displacement. This engine would more than likely be the one that was co-developed with Daimler-Chrysler. Expect the price for this trim to be around the $22k TO $25k area. The other model trim will more than likely by classified as the Ralliart version in the U.S. and will use the 4B11 base engine found in the lighter model trims, but will have a small lightly tuned turbo pushing out around 250 HP with a light version of the AWD system. It should run around the $27K to $30K price range.

    Hopefully this has helped to give you some insight. I personally hope you stick with the Lancer and enjoy it, but regardless of what you choose, have fun and be sure that the dealer doesn't take you to the cleaners! ;)

    Bill
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    as for reliability I have had some people at my work gawk at my car and tell me that in their view my Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and it's engine will run forever. Oh they love it's body style but they are serious when they tell me that it'll run forever. Who am I to disagree?

    Remember, Mitsubishi is the company that races these cars in rallies and wins. They take the information they learn during racing and bring it to the design and producibilty studio and engineering buildings and build it in to future versions of their cars.

    I have read more good things about Mitsubishi since I started researching them in earnest and since buying one of my own. This Lancer GTS experience is getting more fun as I go along driving it and taking good care of it.

    I gotta tell ya, I will admit that I am not a Honda fan and really detest their crappy styling. But actually taking my wallet out and putting it towards a Honda of any flavor or generation is akin to me turning on my TV set and tuning in The View and watching it. Not gonna happen gentlemen! ;)

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • wpathwpath Posts: 4
    This is my second Mitsubishi. My first one was a 1992 Diamante, and I still think that was the best car I have ever owned. The car still felt brand new at the end of my 36-month lease. I never had a single problem with the car in all that time. After driving my new Lancer ES for over 1,100 miles, I expect that to be true for it as well. The car has no squeaks, rattles or strange noises at all. True, the engine is a bit noisy when accelerating, but hopefully that will get a bit quieter as it breaks in. At cruise speeds, you can barely hear the engine, and wind noise is nonexistent. As you can tell, I love my new Lancer!
  • keithlkeithl Posts: 106
    Well I for one beleive Mitsu reliability is fairly good. My ex-wife has a 97 Montero Sport with 80K miles on it and only has had to replace a water pump. My ex-gf has a 2000 Mirage and has 112K on it and NEVER had any problems, only proactive routine maintance. I think Mitsu is one of those unsung stories. I think Honda and Toyota may be a slightly better built and more reliable care, but not by much. I have worked my way up to near luxury cars lately, Infiniti I30, then I35 then 3 Acura TL cars and have been giving the Lancer GTS serious consideration as a way to still get the options I want and not shell out huge buck and deal with th ehigh costs of GAS as well. My biggest stuggle is the rapid depreciation of Mitsu cars. My other cars have alwasy stayed ahead of the pay down, with Mitsu you need to hold it a good long time to have trade in worth more than the pay off.
  • krynskykrynsky Posts: 8
    For those of you who have been following my posts I've had the hardest time finding a blue ES with the sun and sound package. My dealer has told me that the closest one is three states away and the wait for a custom job from the factory is 6-8 months.

    I also asked the dealer about swapping the GTS tires to an ES level to get rid of the road noise but the dealer can't do that either and as bill mentioned above that may screw with the GTS's suspension and other features anyway.

    So I called up other dealers myself and due to a stroke of extremely good luck I found one in Idaho which borders Washington State (where I'm at).

    Had the exact model, ES, Sun and Sound, Auto Trans. And he's able to add all the accessories I wanted:
    Rear Spoiler
    Front and Side sill extensions
    Fog Lights
    Bluetooth
    Window Tint

    At the end of the day it should look like a GTS but with a smoother ride and without that "sport" fabric which I didn't like.

    In a perfect world I would have liked the paddle shifters and the leather wrapped steering wheel but this is basically what i've been searching for. I've already put a deposit down and the added parts are being ordered. Expected time untill I can pick it up is two weeks.

    As long as nothing is on back order... boy I hope all the parts are in stock. I'll post again when I have another update.

    Tomas

    P.S.... This is my 2nd new car, and I have to say that both times I've had problems finding the exact car I want. This is pretty amazing to me. In my mind, you pick the car you want and then you buy it. The factory is cranking out new cars every day and finding the one you want should be pretty easy, or at least a matter of waiting a few weeks for the factory to slap the correct paint on the car you want.

    Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe this only applies to more expensive cars.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    is it in Electric Blue? If so, it sounds as if you've found your 2008 Lancer!

    Where are you at in Washington state? Those are my old stomping grounds. I was born in Seattle, grew up in Edmonds and moved from Burlington, WA, in May of 2003 to begin training in Missouri for a new career in the Allied Health field. Now we're in the desert of SE Arizona.

    I do really appreciate my Lancer GTS' solid air conditioning for this area. And the sunroof, though, around here the sunroof usually gets opened up at night, because the searing heat of the daytime sun is too much for our noggins.

    Two weeks doesn't seem too long to wait for your Lancer, either. I'd say that if the price is enough to your liking that you made off like a new Mitsubishi fan with your new '08 Lancer ES! Get ready to rock, too, because the stereo is great in this car. Never has it let us down in our pursuit to rock. :D

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • coming from a 06 civic EX, the AC rocks in the Lancer and it having Auto.......Priceless ;)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    I'll second that emotion about the '08 Lancer's A/C. It has done a wonderful job keeping us cool in the Arizona desert. I mean, this test of air conditioning is probably the best test one can give to their Lancer's air conditioning. I agree, it's superlative and on Auto it's coverage and ease is flawless. Just like the entire 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS! :D

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • keithlkeithl Posts: 106
    Anyone know of there is a dealer available auto-dimming mirror with Homelink? Seem that is the onlty thing missing on the GTS?
  • Hello, I'm gonna be purchasing a lancer gts here pretty soon, and I was wondering if anyone had any problems with theirs?
    Also which color do you think is best? I can't freakin decide which color to get. Blue vs. Black.
    I can get a black Gts right now at my local dealer, but have to wait till Sept 1st for the blue. And whats the navigation like? And what's the deal with the bad fuel efficiency?
  • Is there not a front license plate holder thing?
  • krynskykrynsky Posts: 8
    Hello, this is in response to the previous post... Color wise you'll have to pick which one you think is best. Personally I just sold my old car (which was black) and while it looked very good when clean or in the rain, I've fount that black is the hardest color to keep clean. So I'm going with the Blue. It's a nice dark blue which I think looks great and I hope will keep somewhat cleaner then Black.

    The MPG is done with the new 2008 rating system. If you look in mitusibhi's documents it mentions that under the old MPG system the car would rate 25 city and 31 highway.

    All 2008 models are going to take a hit on fuel efficency, it's just that most manufacturer's don't have 2008 models available yet.

    Hope that helps
  • To help answer some of your questions lancergts...

    1) Reliability/Problems: If you look back through the last 10 post or so, you will read that someone else posted the same question. So far, no owners who have posted here have had any problem what so ever.

    2) Black vs. Blue: The color is ultimately your choice. I would recommend blue also because I know that Black is a b**** to keep clean as well as to keep immaculate because of possible road debris hitting a car that normally happens over the ownership of the car.

    3) Navigation: When I test drove a Lancer GTS, I tried the Navigation out. It is pretty impressive. Also, with the 30 GB hard drive, there is limitless space to update and expand the map over the years of ownership. I work at Best Buy, so I know some of the main GPS units out there. This one I would consider to be on par with some of the basic Magellan, Garmin, or Tom Tom units.

    4) MPG Rating: As it has been said, the MPG ratings seem a bit off because of the new system that will be implemented on all cars to give a more accurate measure of true life. Again, if you look back through some of the post earlier in this forum, I want to say somewhere around page 7 to 10, you will see some current owners posting what they are getting and it is a little better for the most part than what the MPG rating is.

    Bill
  • thanks for the help
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