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Hybrids - News, Reviews and Views in the Press

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  • michael2003michael2003 Posts: 144
    edited July 2010
    Do they have the same performance? Can they both tow the same load? Do they both have the same transmissions? Are they equally complicated?

    While I would expect to go for the Hybrid, each persons needs/wants are different and we should respect those differences, even if they are wrong. :D
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I can see your point - to a degree.

    But being a hybrid proponent and owner for more than 6 years now, it's hard for me to imagine anyone passing on 41/36 to get 28/22 regardless of the other circumstances.

    If you need to "tow" don't buy a luxury sedan.
    Performance will likely be equal, if not surpassed by the hybrid having an "electric turbo"
    Do people really base a decision on a car on what type of transmission the car has? Really?
    Complication? All modern cars are complicated. No normal Joe Public can really do much work on their own 2011 car except basic stuff like oil changes.

    My guess is the only people who will buy the gasoline version are people who are ignorant about hybrids and "scared of them" for whatever reason - old age, stubbornness, unwilling to try something new and fresh, etc.
  • Kirstie@EdmundsKirstie@Edmunds Posts: 10,674
    I am neither scared nor ignorant, but I have seen some of the repair bill reports when batteries fail and such, and they are whopping high - higher than any bill I"ve had on a conventional vehicle. RIght now, it's a no thanks from me.

    Of course this is hypothetical as I am not considering the MKZ in either version.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,557
    My question is: why would ANYONE buy the gasoline version with lower MPG when they could get the hybrid at 41/36 for the same price?

    The big question is will they sell at the same price?

    Remember sticker price is a recommended price and the dealer actually sets price. So if the hybrid model goes for sticker and I can get the gasser for 10% off of the sticker price that savings on the car will pay for the extra gas.

    Plus if I am not mistaken the gas version has well over 35% more horsepower so I would presume that performance will come into play with some buyers.

    There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who are not.

  • tbone_raretbone_rare Posts: 96
    I can only speak to General Motors policy. A customer's warranty does not begin until the day he or she takes delivery of the vehicle. The customer is not penalized for the miles on the vehicle either. For instance, if it has 230 miles when they pick it up...the bumper to bumper goes to 36230. Many times, if we do a dealer trade, a vehicle could possibly have a few hundred miles on it. There is no need for you to be concerned, IMHO.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    There is always someone ELSE willing to take on those high ( reportedly ) hybrid system repairs after YOU get 95K out of it.

    I have bought a 100K extended warranty on both of my hybrids because I enjoy the peace of mind in knowing there will NEVER be a large repair bill.

    My TCH has about 67K on it, and I will trade it or sell it at about 95K and get something else.

    Just personal preference. The most I have ever spent on a car repair in 30 years of car ownership is $1400 on a compressor repair.

    Never again.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,557
    I have bought a 100K extended warranty on both of my hybrids because I enjoy the peace of mind in knowing there will NEVER be a large repair bill.


    Actually you did have a large repair bill. You just prepaid for one you may never use.

    There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who are not.

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Yep, but it was factored into 60 monthly payments, which lessens the pain considerably.

    Its no different than any other warranty, or insurance for that matter.

    People have insurance so they can pay $500 to get their car fixed instead of $3,000.

    I have a home warranty I pay $40 a month for. But a $1,500 compressor for my heat pump is covered.

    I live and learn. I'd rather "have it and not need it" than "need it and not have it."
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Not that this car will EVER appear in the USA, but if it did, I'd trade my TCH for it in a heartbeat.

    That 74.4 Imperial MPG translates to 61.9 MPG in the USA.

    Peugeot 3008 Hybrid

    Here’s a glimpse into Peugeot’s future. The French firm has just unveiled the production version of its 3008 hybrid crossover.

    Called the 3008 HYbrid4, the Peugeot teams a 163bhp 2.0-litre diesel engine, which drives the front wheels, with a 37bhp electric motor, which drives the rears. The 3008 is the first to use a diesel engine, unlike the petrol electric system used by Toyota’s Prius and Honda’s Insight.

    The combined maximum power output is 200bhp, with a substantial 500Nm of torque also being produced, while combined fuel economy is 74.4mpg and carbon dioxide is pegged at a tax-free 99g/km.

    Despite offering four-wheel drive, there’s no mechanical link between the diesel engine and the electric motor. The diesel unit features Peugeot’s latest stop-start system and is mated to a six-speed automated manual gearbox.

    The driver can select from four operating modes – Auto, which selects the best combination of diesel or electric propulsion, ZEV, which activates all-electric mode, four-wheel drive mode, which activates both powerplants, and Sport mode which speeds up the gearshift at higher engine speeds.

    Peugeot has elected to use nickel metal hydride batteries which are less expensive than lithium ion cells. These are mounted beneath the boot floor, along with the electric motor.

    To mark out the hybrid from its conventionally powered siblings, the 3008 HYbrid4 features daytime running lights and a small rear spoiler on the outside, and a seven inch display on the dash with a readout of the powertrain’s performance.

    The 3008 HYbrid4 will be produced in France in Sochaux and Mulhouse and marketed in the spring of 2011 in Europe. Prices are still to be confirmed, but the hybrid will sit at the top of the 3008 range thanks to its generous spec, which includes sat-nav, a built-in hard drive for storing music, parking assist and distance alert, at around £24,000.

    The 3008 is one of a raft of new hybrids that Peugeot will produce. The hybrid module has been designed to fit into many of the firm’s products, including the 508 and RCZ.
  • Too bad it won't be coming to the US.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    No surprise here - the "homers" in Detroit love the Volt. Lust after it, even.

    Better go buy two of them

    Worth the money?

    All of this technology comes with a price: $41,000 or $33,500 after the government rebate. Is it worth it?

    If you're looking for some sort of pay back, such as the money saved driving electric, then the answer is no. It may offer every bell and whistle from push button start to a smart phone app that can monitor the car, but it will never save you the difference.

    But electric cars are more than an economical purchase. For people who want to drive an electric car without the hassle of range limits and for people who want to buy a car with cutting-edge technology, the answer is a resounding yes.

    For the money, here's what you get: An electric car for the first 40-something miles — Chevy states the range as 25 miles to 50 miles, depending upon the weight of the driver's foot.

    During two days of testing, I managed 32 miles on electric only at better-than-highway speeds. The following day, with more typical driving, I managed 46 battery miles.

    That means I could drive to work and back and never use a drop of gasoline. The next day, I could do the same thing. No gasoline car or traditional hybrid can make the same claim.

    Then over the weekend, I could drive to Knoxville, Tenn., and back with never a worry and never a recharge. No electric car in the world can make that claim.

    Introducing an all-new vehicle, something that has never been tried or sold before, takes money and gumption. Chevrolet has shown both.

    The Volt is world-beater. Mother Nature might be the first to buy two.
  • A student group is researching hybrid technologies and marketing trends. If you are a hybrid vehicle owner and would to add your insights and experience to their project, please participate by completing the 10-minute survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7V5BVRL

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • I was surprised to see the True Cost Of Ownership for the TCH was higher than that of the Accord - $0.57 vs $0.52. Considering the gas mileage of the TCH is about 30% higher than the Accord, it probably means the maintenance on the TCH is that much higher. You couple that with the performance superiority that non-hybrid cars have over the hybrid (shiftable auto transmission, etc) and you will see why some folks are not very hot for hybrids...
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited October 2010
    That surprises me. I'd like to see the metrics for that cost, because I've spent SQUAT for the 1st 70K miles of my TCH on maintenance.

    I'm on my second set of tires (they are almost gone though) and I have done only oil changes and tire rotations - no other service.

    There was a wire harness they had to replace under warranty, but that's because it was damaged ( unknown to everyone) when my Mom had a 5-mph fender bender.

    I'd say I've spent about as little on the TCH for the first 70K miles as I have for any other car I have owned.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    edited October 2010
    Isn't amazing how pretty much any vehicle will hold up if you maintain them ;) I've averaged about 180,000 miles per vehicle on all the vehicles I've owned and the only thing I'd call major was a head gasket I had to replace on a pickup truck at 70,000 miles. It's called preventative maintenance for a reason

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • bamacarbamacar Posts: 749
    There is no difference in the ownership costs due to maintenance between the Accord and TCH. The difference is the higher initial cost and 5 year depreciation is greater than than the fuel savings for a TCH versus a similarly equipped 4 cylinder Accord or even Camry for that matter.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    bamacar says, "...versus a similarly equipped 4 cylinder Accord or even Camry for that matter. "

    Well, that's an incorrect comparison.

    The TCH compares more favorably and correctly with the Camry XLE when considering features, and the performance of the TCH engine compares more favorably to the V6 than the 4-cyl options in the line.
  • bamacarbamacar Posts: 749
    edited October 2010
    larsb said "the TCH engine compares more favorably to the V6 than the 4-cyl"

    Well, your response was incorrect but it sounded good to some I'm sure.

    4cylinder 169-179 hp 0-60 8.6sec
    TCH 187 hp Total System hp 0-60 8.7 sec
    V6 268hp 0-60 6.2 sec

    So, no the numbers are very obvious; the Camry V6 is sports car like in acceleration while the TCH is much like a very average 4 cylinder from 0-60.

    I never said which model I compared the TCH to. Did you assume I thought a base model compared to the TCH? Incorrect again. Seems to be a pattern developing here.

    The total cost to own compares the models with no options, so a TCH with no options as compared to a XLE 4 cylinder with no options reveals the following:

    The XLE has heated mirrors, illuminated vanity mirrors, leather steering wheel, power passenger seat, moonroof, sat radio, JBL system with CD changer, bluetooth, alloy wheels, fog lights, auto dim mirror, and a sliding armrest. The TCH has none of those standard. The TCH does have Smartkey though. Of course the XLE has significantly more cargo space and 307 fewer pounds that eat up that measly 8-18hp advantage over the regular 4 cylinder.

    Sorry - strike 3. The base TCH is well below the base 4cylinder XLE in standard equipment.

    The point of my post was that the difference in total cost has nothing to do with maintenance costs. It has to do with greater initial cost and depreciation not offsetting a reduction in fuel costs during the 5 year period.
  • Operating Cost Ratings
    This rating displays the vehicle's relative operating cost ranking, compared to all other new vehicles. This rating represents the ongoing "out of pocket" costs of owning and operating a new vehicle: Financing, Insurance, Taxes & Fees, Fuel, Maintenance and Repairs..................

    So, the fuel consumption does come in to play here....
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited October 2010
    1. I own a TCH. I don't race it in a 0-60 competition very often. Actually, NEVER. When I DO need it to GET UP AND GO, it DOES IT. Very well. The electric hybrid system kicks in when you "floor it" and it acts as a little "electric turbo charger." Every single friend who has ridden with me and seen this in action says, "I thought you said this was a Hybrid !!!" The TCH has all the acceleration anyone should need under almost ANY circumstance.

    2. I did not say the "base" TCH had all the trimmings of a V6 XLE, did I ? I said a base TCH has more in common with an XLE than a base non-hybrid Camry does. That is true. The TCH does in fact have a leather-wrapped steering wheel standard - at least my 2007 does. ( I just looked at the sticker, which I carry in my briefcase - it's not on there as an option, but my steering wheel is leather-wrapped. )

    3. You can get options on the TCH which are NOT available on the LE models, but ARE available or standard on the XLE. Again, more in common with the XLE.

    bamacar says, "The point of my post was that the difference in total cost has nothing to do with maintenance costs. It has to do with greater initial cost and depreciation not offsetting a reduction in fuel costs during the 5 year period. "

    The first part is right, but the second part is wrong. The TCH does indeed depreciate as well as the XLE, and way better than the LE.
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