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Hybrids - News, Reviews and Views in the Press



  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,854
    Let's not let things get carried away and turn this into a personal beef, please. We can disagree about things without the personal references.

    Thanks for your participation and cooperation

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  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
  • bamacarbamacar Posts: 749
    According to Edmunds the retained value after 5 years is as follows:

    TCH 53.6%, XLE I-4 53.6%, LE I-4 Auto 53.4%

    All 3 Camrys depreciate at virtually the same rate.

    Please provide Edmunds with guidance on the flaws in their True Cost To Own system.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, I was right on the XLE and TCH, but it is surprising to me that the LE hangs in so close.
  • sorry for opening a can of warms...but I am still puzzled by the cost of ownership that factors the gas expense being about the same for hybrid and a non hybrid cars..and if maintenance and depreciation is the same and the gas expense is 30% lower for hybrid cars, how do you reconcile the numbers?... and what's the rhyme or reason for even looking at a hybrid?
  • bamacarbamacar Posts: 749
    Not sure how I can keep saying the same thing. For example see the following comparison.

    Here is the TCH: TCH TCO

    Here is the Accord EX 4cyl Auto: Accord EX TCO

    TCH saves $1600 dollars in fuel over 5 years. Maintenance costs are almost identical. Accord saves $1100 dollars in depreciation (roughly same rate on a smaller purchase price). Accord saves $470 in finance costs (smaller amount borrowed for cheaper car). Accord saves $430 in taxes (once again lower purchase price). Accord saves about $1150 for insurance (slight surprise here but somewhat based on lower purchase price again -maybe value of repairs higher on hybrid?). Total advantage to Accord about $1600. Mystery solved.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, right now, today, the Edmunds "TMV - What others are paying" for the TCH is around $400 more than the Accord.

    Accord EX: $24,271
    TCH: $24,665

    Not much gained on the "lower purchase price" factor there. That eliminates almost all of the "smaller purchase price, finance costs, taxes, and insurance" advantages you listed.

    A person can "keep saying the same thing" as long as they want, but they gotta expect that they might not be correct sometimes. Happens to all of us. We all have opinions on things, and sometimes those opinions can be backed with facts, and other times we get caught assuming things based on common sense which in turn are shown to be "only a feeling" and not factually correct. No Biggie. No harm no foul. It's All Good. :shades: :shades: :shades:
  • bamacarbamacar Posts: 749
    edited October 2010
    Please stop the personal attacks. I have 100 percent correctly stated the facts about the Edmunds True Cost to Own system

    I was asked what was the difference between the Accord and TCH for the Total Cost to Own. Once again if you have a problem with the Total Cost to Own system by Edmunds, complain. Personal attacks against the messenger do not gain anything.

    Edmunds Total Cost of Ownership used a True Market price of 26949 for TCH and the True Market Price for the Accord EX is 24271. Once again this is what Edmunds is using. I gave you the facts; no opinions here.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    There was no personal attack at ALL.

    I just stated some philosophical truths that apply to ALL of us.

    Nothing I said was or should be incorrectly interpreted as a personal attack on any person.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    ..When Ed Niedermeyer reported about Volkswagen’s new sub One Liter (235 mpg) car, the XL1, currently on display in Qatar, he prognosticated that this “One Liter car represents a step closer to production.” A very close step, as it turns out.

    Automobilwoche [sub] heard in Qatar both from Piech and Winterkorn that Volkswagen will actually build a small series (about 100 first) of the car. Piech confirmed that the car will be made available for purchase at a yet undisclosed price. It’s not just a field test.

    According to Winterkorn, the car will be introduced in Germany first. The U.S. and China will follow at a later point in time.

    200+ MPG VW Hybrid coming to production

  • pat85pat85 Posts: 92
    The Blue book value of my 2009 Camry Hybrid has increased. After my trade in, it now is worth more than what I financed on it.
    Further, I have heated mirrors, illuminated vanity mirrors, leather interior, power steering, power driver seat, moonroof, , JBL system with CD changer, bluetooth, alloy wheels,, auto dim mirror with compass, and a storage armrest. I have the smartkey system, navigation system, and heated seats. One disadvantage is my trunk cargo space is decresed maybe 25 % for traction battery storage. One other item. The Camry Hybrid had much lower than average maintenance costs. In all the years the Prius has been around, including a 400, 000 mile taxi in Mexico, not one traction battery has failed.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,824
    A reporter seeks to interview someone in the market for a new Toyota Prius who cannot find one on dealer lots. Please email no later than Thursday, July 7, 2011 with your daytime contact information if you care to share your story.

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  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Stating the obvious here, but nice to have them evaluated, anyway.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,824
    We want to know what you think. As a consumer, what kind of gas mileage do you think vehicles should offer? We want your opinions on fuel efficiency rules and your questions about gas mileage during a live chat Tuesday (7/26) at noon, Eastern.

    Chat guests represent Union of Concerned Scientists, National Automobile Dealers Association and

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  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    The gauntlet has been lain down, Diesel Sniffers !! Go Get 'Em !!!

    It sounded as a goal too far for even the Prius, but one couple managed circumvent South Africa using less than 140 litres of fuel.

    Helen and John Taylor, an Australian couple well known for several international fuel economy records, decided to turn their recent holiday in South Africa into a record breaking attempt. They chose the ultimate eco friendly Toyota Prius for the job and assigned independent technical engineering company Aswan Consulting to follow them across the country and independently certify their record attempt.

    The Taylor’s trip took the couple from Johannesburg’s early morning rush hour traffic through towns and cities such as Springbok, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth, Durban, Piet Retief and ultimately back to Johannesburg in a route that spanned 4 431.6 km.

    “South Africa is an immensely beautiful country. Driving through the countryside is like driving through the USA, Australia, Scotland and New Zealand all in one day,” say the seasoned travellers.

    The Taylors first refuel was recorded in Pofadder in the Northern Cape, after completing 1 100.2 km and using 34.368 litres of fuel. For the record purposes the couple was only allowed to stop at pre-determined Shell fuel stations, where the station manager was tasked with recording the fuel level, unsealing and resealing the fuel tank and taking meticulous photo evidence of the process.

    “Our best figure in the Prius is 2.4 ℓ /100 km over a 50 km section. We travelled at normal speeds, but the road works and constant stop and go sections dropped our average speed to 53 km/h for the section,” say the Taylors.

    The 2.4 ℓ record translates into an average of 41.66 km per litre of fuel, which shatters any previous fuel consumption records. The same applies to the final record fuel consumption figure of 3.148 ℓ /100km which was certified by the independent technical auditor. To achieve this final figure, the Taylors used only 139.488 litres of fuel over 4 431.6 km of all types of road surfaces and environmental conditions.

    The certified record figure is very impressive as it beats the official 4.1 ℓ /100 km fuel consumption figure of the Prius by 23%. This is even more impressive if one considers that an average 2 litre petrol driven family sedan would consume on average 7 l ℓ / 100 km.

    “The Taylor’s achievement strengthens our view that the Prius was designed to offer the best possible environmental benefits in normal everyday circumstances. Not only did the Prius – a used version with relatively high mileage – outperform all expectations, but it did so with the lowest CO2 emissions as well. We are proud of both the Taylors and the Prius, well done!” says Dr Johan van Zyl, President and CEO of Toyota South Africa Motors and a Managing Officer of Toyota Motor Corporation.

    2.4 liters per 100 KM works out to 98 miles per gallon, US.

    That's pretty dang good in a Prius.
  • What is missing is the speed for each leg.

    Near as I can tell, the maximum range speed of the Prius is ~18 mph (~29 km/h.) What we find is most of these "record events" happen at speeds impractically low. I don't mind it as long as it is part of the story. But without out the vehicle speed (and weather conditions,) the story is missing key engineering data.

    Bob Wilson
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, Bob, they were in the process of setting a MPG world record......

    Therefore, maintaining a higher speed was not probably one of the main considerations.....

    They weren't trying to say that a commuter can expect 98 MPG out of a Prius - I think they were just pushing the limits of MPG in that vehicle, speed-be-damned......
  • A documented benchmark helps explain vehicle performance, useful insights. But these stunts are advertising, another commercial.

    In 2009, the Taylor's came to the USA to set a Jetta TDI "world record". Claiming driving records has become a 'business' with mileage stunts providing a distorted view of the sponsor's product. The product doesn't matter but the distortion that is so wrong and misleading.

    One of the best examples of how to do it right are from the Edmunds "smackdown" series: Gas-Sipper Smackdown!, Fuel Sipper Smackdown 2, and Fuel-Sipper Smackdown 3. Edmunds is in the 'reality' business, reporting facts and data. Credibility is what makes Edmunds, Consumer Reports and EPA results useful.

    So as a personal accomplishment, the Taylors set another record but given another sponsor, it would have been a different vehicle . . . and just as useful.

    Bob Wilson
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    from WSJ
    2012 TCH

    The consulting firm IHS Automotive counts 29 different hybrid vehicles on the market, including battery-pack toting versions of mainstream midsize sedans such as the Ford Fusion, Nissan Altima and Hyundai Sonata. But nearly half of the hybrids sold are one model: the easily identifiable Toyota Prius.
    Despite the additional hybrid models on the market, "we're seeing no increases in demand," says IHS auto industry analyst Rebecca Lindland. "The reality is hybrids have never gotten over 3% of the market. Which means 97% of people are picking something else." -end
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Prime example of the stupidity of the American car buyer.

    That's why diesels and hybrids are low volume and something ridiculous like the F150 is the best selling vehicle.

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