Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Hybrids - News, Reviews and Views in the Press

1235731

Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Hush... we've been having an intelligent interchange for over a year now and I've learned a lot from Mr. moparbad.

    YOu too are entitled to your opinion. Enjoy your life.

    BTW: You are right about the Corolla or Civic or Versa or Yaris. If all you want is good solid basic transportation all of these are better choices than any $20000 vehicle. But we covered that last year.

    I tell this to all my clients :shades: "If you are looking to save money on transportation, DON'T buy a Prius or TCH. Buy a 3-4 y.o. Civic or Corolla with 40,000 miles on it for $11000. That's a much better choice."

    However there is a whole segment of buyers for whom $25,000 to $30,000 is what they expect and want to pay for a vehicle. In this range the Prius is a bargain. The TCH even more so.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    "I tell this to all my clients "If you are looking to save money on transportation, DON'T buy a Prius or TCH. Buy a 3-4 y.o. Civic or Corolla with 40,000 miles on it for $11000. That's a much better choice." "

    I'd buy one at an auto auction before I'd buy it from a dealer. Save myself about $6K and wouldn't have to deal with a "Saleman" while buying a used car. But for 25 to 30K a New LOADED Chevy Impala is a much better buy. Safer too.

    What about the comparison between a Saturn Vue hybrid and Toyota Highlander. Well! What holding you back? Lets have your spin on it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I dodn't know anything about the Vue except that it shares the platform with the Equinox. If that's the case it not much of a competitor for the Highlander, which is a decontented Lexus.

    Quick lookup here at Edmunds brings up this comment on the Vue:
    Below-average build quality, undersized front seats, vague steering, missing some popular convenience and safety features.

    Based on this it's hardly in the Lexus/Highlander class. Probably why it's under the radar for most people.

    The 400h/HH are designed for performance with 265+ combined HP with fuel economy as a secondary benefit. The current Vue Greenline is based on a 2.4L with a BAS assist but only 160+ HP. Again these are not in the same class.

    The EPA Fuel Economy benefits are....
    HH/400h ..+25-30%
    Vue Greenline .. +15%
    Again not much to get excited about here

    Quick summary:
    The Vue is one of the General's quick fixes with mediocre build quality ( CR gives it a black mark for reliability ); mediocre performance and so-so fuel economy.

    But it is cheaper to buy.

    Now in fairness this Greenline was a stop-gap measure. The new announcement at the LAIAS about the 2-mode linked to the 3.5L with 45% better FE is something GM can be proud about... when it actually does hit the streets.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    Your numbers are slanted. The fuel economy numbers are very close to the Toy. Vue has better hwy and lower city. Overall they are about the same. Over the next two years it will out sell the Highlander Hybrid by 50%. I drove a Highlander hybrid and wasn't impressed. I ended up buying a liberty CRD because it performed and handled much better. My ex wife's highlander couldn't make it up my back driveway in the winter. Plus in the rain the Highlander plows forward instead of turning while moderately braking. As for not being in the same class. They are about the same size the Toyota is just uglier.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Now you are just being silly and making yourself look foolish.

    Are you really saying that it's good that
    the 2.4L 170 HP Vue Greenline gets 27 City and 32 Highway
    whereas..
    the 3.3L V6 268 HP Highlander Hybrid gets 32 City and 27 Highway

    That's pretty good that a 4c can get the same FE values as a V6 with 100 additional HP. Please be serious. Until GM improves the quality of the Vue/Equinox it will never be in the class of the Highlander quality-wise, performance-wise
    or volume-wise.

    Now if the 2-mode is real and performs as stated then GM may have a competitive vehicle. Highlander is due to be redone this summer. It's a moving target. The current Vue is a weak shadow of this 5 y.o. model it won't even see the sun against the new model.

    Congratulations on your Liberty purchase. I was a sole supplier to Jeep for 15 years. They are an American icon.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    The combined number is 29 for both. And its subjective opinion on which is a better vehicle. The highlander is not worth 10K more then the Vue (my opinion). But I like the mild hybrid design of the vue much better then the overpriced system in the Highlander. What I really want is a Commander with the 3.0 CRD option. They don't sell it here. I drove one when I was in Australia. The interior styling could have been better but is was great to drive. Now if they would use a hybrid EV Allison trans with this Commander 3.0 CRD that would temp me to put out 40k+ for that vehicle. Should get around 28 HWY and 30 city. Add the ad blue system then the EPA should be happy.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > But I like the mild hybrid design of the vue much better then the overpriced system in the Highlander.

    Overpriced?

    It's a more powerful system that is quite a bit better loaded. Heck, just the Multi-Display alone is dramatically more expensive than the "Eco" indicator light in so-called competition.

    Highlander-Hybrid will later be available in 4-cylinder version. Add the missing components to Vue-Hybrid, then compare prices.

    After that, consider the upcoming "full" hybrid version of Vue-Hybrid.

    JOHN
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    Bells and whistles!!!! The end result is still the same. Vue is a 5 passenger suv 29 mpg's combined, which is more affordable and not as ugly as the Highlander.

    Merry Christmas.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Summary:
    The Vue Greenline would be for a buyer looking for good fuel economy, weak to mild power, minimal amenities and questionable build quality and reliability... at a very affordable price.

    Someone looking for more in their vehicle might consider paying more for their choice and getting a lot more in return by buying a HH/400h

    That's why there are so many choices in this market. There is a vehicle for every wallet and for every choice. This is good.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    Heavy rain reduces fuel economy about 15%.
    Strong headwinds reduce fuel economy about 10%.
    The winter driving penalty is 8-12%
    Short trips kill fuel economy by nearly 40%


    HEY Bob, after a couple of cold weather, high speed, highway milage tanks getting 34 to 35 mpg over Christmas, I am feeling good with this current warm weather streak proving to me that my milage will indeed return this spring. My current tank FE on local roads is 41 with 300 miles on this tank.

    Cold weather did make it more difficult on short trips but short trips in general have not hurt me. I live about 2 miles from town and when I make the trip into town and back, even with a cold engine, I still get around 40 mpg. Considering my lifetime FE is 39mpg after 18,500 miles (Camry Hybrid) then it appears the short trips are not hurting me as I am able to maintain my average. However I believe terrain plays a big part. I live on a hill and when I pull out of my garage with a cold engine it runs all the way down the hill, but I am still gliding with no load on the engine while it warms up. I lose going back up the hill but I don't take a big hit on the warm up because I'm all down hill while it warms up.

    My highway milage is real close to EPA. I can easily obtain 38 driving the limit and driving "normal" I can always get 36 to 37 in rural mountain 4 lane driving. My rural 2 lane driving is where the TCH shines as I can get anywhere from 40 to 43 all the time.

    I still cannot see the downside that many are worried about economically. My monthly gas bill is less than half what it used to be, my car payment dropped $200/month AND in a couple of months I'll file my first tax return with the $2600 Federal and a $1250 State credit (that one is for 3 years). The credits put my LOADED TCH at a cost of less than $24000. This car cannot depreciate more than $24000 so even if I throw it away when I'm done it's going to be a better deal than just about anything I've drove over the last 15 years.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Hybrids better choice per Toyota

    quote-
    Reuters reported that Toyota Motor Corp.'s top engineer said on Monday that diesel-powered vehicles that would clear strict clean-air regulations in the United States would be too pricey to be worth the fuel savings.
    "I won't deny that we might be offering a diesel in the United States some time in the future," said Executive Vice President Masatami Takimoto, who overseas Toyota's research and development.
    "But right now we think hybrids are much more cost competitive," he told reporters on the sidelines at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
    Domestic Japanese rivals Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. have both said they were preparing a clean diesel powertrain for launch by the end of the decade in the United States, which is due to introduce the strictest diesel emissions regulations in the world soon.
    But with the particulate filter traps and other added components needed to clean tailpipe emissions, Takimoto said the likely price premium on the cars would not justify a choice over hybrids for now, at least in the United States.
    Toyota, a relative laggard in diesel technology, in November tied up with diesel-savvy Japanese truck maker Isuzu Motors Ltd. in an attempt to catch up, but Takimoto said a roadmap on how to proceed was wide open.
    -end quote

    Interesting times. :confuse:

    Toyota states that diesel technology is too costly to justify the fuel savings.
    Nissan states that hybrid technology is too costly to justify the fuel savings.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    moparbad says, "Toyota states that diesel technology is too costly to justify the fuel savings. Nissan states that hybrid technology is too costly to justify the fuel savings."

    Who you gonna believe?

    A. The company which has sold about 800,000 hybrids worldwide, or
    B. The company which has sold, um, ZERO hybrids worldwide?

    :shades:
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    larsbWho you gonna believe?

    A. The company which has sold about 800,000 hybrids worldwide, or
    B. The company which has sold, um, ZERO hybrids worldwide?


    I'm going to believe Honda, which is going to soon offer more diesels than hybrids in the US, dropped the Insight hybrid, will be eliminating the Accord hybrid, and sells more diesels worldwide than hybrids.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Several thoughts have been generated by this post:

    We need to look at the REASONS these things are true.

    1. Honda dropped the Insight not because they don't like "hybrids" but because it was a "proof of concept, HA HA we beat everyone else in the USA to a hybrid car" vehicle, and as such it was not a valid money-making vehicle. It's the oddball of the hybrids - very limited use 2-seater with quirky looks which they knew would never sell in large volume but STILL got the point across that hybrids could be viable cars. It is not being dropped because "Honda does not like hybrids" - that's ridiculous.

    2. The HAH is getting dropped because they overcharged for it and tried to make it a "muscle hybrid" and did not put enough into the MPG side of the equation. ALSO - they wanted the industry first "6-cylinder hybrid" and they got it. Again - not dropped because Honda does not like hybrids, but because this particular car does not sell well because of how they put the whole package together.

    And virtually every carmaker sells more diesels worldwide than hybrids - that's not news, but market reality because there are so many diesels available and so few hybrids (USA excepted of course because of clean-air regs.)

    Hybrid sales in the USA were up 22% in 2006 to around 251,000 vehicles. Death Knell Postponed. :shades:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    when you posted this link to the diesel forum I noted the same comment as you did here. Curious now that Toyota feels that hybrids are more cost effective - to them - at this point.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    GM could OWN the hybrid market by now !!! LOL !!

    In this 1969 Popular Science article, 2 Editors get a chance to check out GM’s new Pinto-Vega-looking XP-883 hybrid-drive commuter car, and love it.

    As far as I know, GM never dispatched (then withdrew and crushed) a test fleet like they did with the wildly popular EV1 in California.
    PopSci Says in 1969:

    “It’s the best low-emission small car proposed yet, and has both a gasoline and an electric motor.”

    “With all-independent suspension, front-wheel drive, a low center of gravity, and wide track (49 inches), the XP883 should be great fun to drive. But whether, and when, you’ll drive one is something that the GM chiefs haven’t made up their minds about yet. ”


    image
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,786
    "In this 1969 Popular Science article, 2 Editors get a chance to check out GM’s new Pinto-Vega-looking XP-883 hybrid-drive commuter car, and love it. "

    Looks more like a '74 AMC Gremlin to me... :surprise:
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    quote-
    "The cap should be raised for us to allow us to expand," Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor North America, said in an interview at the North American International Auto Show here. "Demand for Prius declined when there was a step down in hybrid tax credits. We need to have a certain volume to get the mainstream in for economies of scale."
    -end

    Toyota wants government support to prop up the demand of hybrids.

    Hmmmmm.......poor Toyota.....what's next...tax credits for Tundra's? :blush:
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    They are just the FIRST COMPANY TO REQUEST IT since they hit their cap early due to, um, the fact that they are the NUMBER ONE HYBRID COMPANY IN THE WORLD.

    The other carmakers will also complain when and if THEIR cars use all the tax credit because of SALES SUCCESS.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    "People want economy and they will pay any price to get it."

    - Lee Iacocca


    ;)
Sign In or Register to comment.