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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
edited February 12 in General
GM has turned around Cadillac in recent years, but will Cadillac be the standard of the world ever again... let me know what you guys think?
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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Cadillac, is the Standard of the World with the Escalade SUV, the SRX CUV, and the EXT, is the luxury pick-up benchmark. ;)

    The 2008 CTS, very well could be the standard of the world in entry/lux segment.

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Standard of the world? Hmmm. GM has the resources to make Cadillac into that, but doesn't have the desire to do so. A "standard of the world" doesn't sell what should be Pontiacs (CTS and STS), Buicks (SRX and DTS), or GMCs (the Escalades). Start with a full-trim version of the Chinese Buick Royaum, put a modern DOHC V8 in it, and head upmarket from there.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    bumpy, what the heck is a Chinese Royaum ? :surprise:

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,178
    The Royaum is a Buick sold only in China. Nicer than what we get - sort of a larger version of the Chinese LaCrosse.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    Standard of the world? Not hardly. Standard of the domestics? I could go for that.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yeah it looks nice from the front grill. That's the only photo I saw though. Thanx for the link bumpy. ;)

    Rocky
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    When Cadillac won the Dewar Trophy for "standard of the world", it meant that they were using interchangable parts to make Cadillac's, while the European cars were using custom made parts for each car.

    There was only one Dewar Trophy for this category, and that Trophy is still Cadillac's. They are therefore still the "Standard of the World" and this topic should be terminated.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    When was that? 1908? Funny.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well like I said the Escalade, is the Standard of the World of SUVS. The SRX, currently is the Standard of the World of CUVs and the EXT is the Standard of the World of pick-ups. Hopefully the new CTS, will be the Standard of the World of entry/lux sedans and the next STS and DTS, become Standards of the World of their respective segments. A Big Body RWD DTS, with a 400+ hp DOHC V-8 with a upgraded interior and gadgetry would make it a "Standard of the World" candidate. The STS, needs all of the things I mentioned for the DTS, but on a slightly smaller scale and a sport tuned suspension using Delphi's new Magneride II technology that is driver selectable. It would be best to tune the STS to at least 450 hp using a V-8 along with the new 2-stage hybrid technology in a performance application like Lexus. If GM, wanted to really go after the europeans and japanese and gain a chunk of market-share they could invest some R&D dollars into a Northstar Diesel or a equivalent. :)

    Just my $0.02 on the Standard of the World chatter ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well in Trucks and SUVs they still are. The CTS, DTS, STS, are a slightly better interior, performance upgrade, RWD for the DTS, and a few gadgetology. enhancements away from being the "Standard of the World" ;) Give em' a few more years and we will be able to say those words with confidence. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well the Seville STS in the early-mid 90's was the "Standard of the World" with it's new Northstar and cutting edge design. :P

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    You aren't serious, are you? BMW and MB weren't exactly scared.

    Cutting edge? What?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    That's nice about the Escalade and the SRX, but not everyone will agree, not nearly. And the EXT, its not even its own vehicle. Standard of the world in pickups? Come on now. Highest bling, maybe, but it's not exactly practical.

    I can't go on 'hopefully' as being worth much in regards to havbing the superior product. Always talking about the next model doesn't bode well.

    Standard of the world also should mean something is marketable to every major location. I don't see that as the case right now. You mention market share...that is exactly right. The common standards right now can be sold most anywhere.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Never the less, there was only one trophy for this category. Cadillac has misused the "Standard of the World" in its advertising.

    However, the question is:
    WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS DISCUSSION!!!
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well the MB S-Class was what $80+ thousand for a 500. S-600 was like $120 or $140K, right ? So the MB, "might" of been better but not at double or triple the price. ;)

    The Northstar compared to MB motors of those days was cutting edge because it was derived from the famous german engineered LT-5 found in the ZR-1 Corvette. :P

    BMW, all they knew how to make was a 240 hp. inline-6 for its M3. A great engine in a compact sports sedan. Everthing else from BMW, was junk even though I was a fan of the 7 series styling and interior design back in those days. ;)

    Cadillac was the standard of the world for at least a few years anyways back in the early-mid 90's and if my meory serves me correct it even won the anti-gm biased Motor Trend calipers. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    Uh, STS never competed with an S-class, at least not in this universe. E-class/5er competitor. At that range, the price differentials were not so huge.

    If everything else from BMW was junk, I wouldn't want to hear what everything else GM would be considered...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    Seems like a technicality/semantics to me. "Standard of the World" might have an original meaning, but it has different connotations now. Just like most people in the trade consider "antique" to be 100+ years old, but don't tell me that a 1915 car is not antique.

    The point is to discuss what makes a standard of the world today, and what Caddy can do to get there.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,178
    ...Cadillac was, is, and will always be the Standard of the World. I don't care how wealthy I become, I will still drive a Cadillac.

    Now, there can be different standards:

    Per styling, Cadillac definately is it. No car is prettier than a Cadillac in my eyes.

    Per quality and reliability, I'd say it is Lexus.

    Per trucks, I'd say it's the new Chevrolet Silverado.

    Per status, it's a toss-up between Mercedes and BMW.

    Per overall value, I'd say it's Buick.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well lemko, that's a pretty good break-down and I could even agree with it. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well the early-mid 90's STS was better than the E-class, IMHO.

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    In some ways, I am sure it is. Especially if one doesn't like a 6cyl engine.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well the E-class today is better than the current STS. that is hard for me to say *gulp* because I like the STS. ;)

    Rocky
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    For status, the Rolls Royce is it. Possibly, since BMW took over, it may even have decent engineering.

    Syling depends on what one likes, however, most luxury cars are not Azteks.

    J. D. Power has Lexus at the top of the heap. They are mostly concerned with quality and dependability.

    If the point of this discussion is:
    "what is the worlds best luxury car?"
    Then I think that the Rolls Royce, Bentley and Maybach are very good. Cadillac does not have anything in this catagory. Cadillac does not have any sedans that compare with an S-class Mercedes either, except perhaps for size. For the "best" luxury car, the standard of the world would have to be very refined, something GM does not quite grasp.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    I don't think the STS is a bad car either...and I have seen them fairly cheap at a year or two old here. It might even be a better value than the competition...but the segment isn't really about value.

    It comes down to an old GM problem - you have to keep on moving. These new models come out that are competitive, but don't seem to receive upgrades like the competition. Too often they live on for many more model years than they should.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I think that Cadillac's sigma platform is quite good. Where Cadillac falls short is on interior quality and general refinement. The CTS interior has a bit too much firm plastic in it I think. Not sure how it compares with a 3-series BMW though.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yeah I agree with ya fintail. It's so difficult because smaller car company's are changing designs every 4 years. I here some are going to try to get it down to every 3-years to cater to leasing customers that want the latest and greatest.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yep, the current STS missed out on GM putting the few extra bucks more on interior quality. The CTS interior spy photo's I've seen give me hope. :)

    Rocky
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Do not confuse styling changes with design changes. For example, the 2008 CTS will have new styling, but will still be a sigma platform design. The best that we can hope for is an improvement to the sigma design, but the basic platform design is probably not going to change a lot. But the 2008 CTS should have a lot of improvement in refinement, which can be done with some refinement in the basic sigma design.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Agree....I think the next STS, which BTW needs to come soon needs to be built on the Signma II platform. Buick needs to replace the FWD Lucerne with a RWDer. The LaCrosse needs to be more sporting and I'd go with a Velite styled grill. Then Buick, needs to use the Sigma II for a RWD hardtop convertible like that found from Volvo, with the C-70 and call it Velite. :shades:

    Rocky
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